Callie Thorne: (actress)
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I met Callie Thorne when she came in to audition for a part in ANITA LIBERTY, the short film I co-wrote and starred in for Bravo. She was amazing and lovely and wonderful. She didn't get the part. It wasn't just up to me. And then I saw her again many months later at a social gathering and, since Callie is a professional and grounded person, she bore no grudge. In fact, she seemed interested in being my friend. I wanted to be her friend, too. So we exchanged phone numbers and I called her the next day. We were on the phone for hours and then she had to take a call that came in. She said she'd call me back. As I waited, I realized that this person could actually become a big part of my life and I decided that, even though it wasn't a romantic relationship, we should still take things slow and not become each other's "new best friend" (or "NBF" as Callie shorthands it). She called back and I expressed my need to go cautiously. Instead of calling me a freak, she agreed. And we've been friends ever since.
Anita Liberty: Tell me the story about going to see ED'S NEXT MOVE in Los Angeles?
Callie Thorne: All right. Embarrassing. It's funny though. On the day that [Ed's Next Move] opened in L.A., I was hanging out with my friend Ed Fletcher from Wheaton and we were just sort of driving around and I said, "Okay, let's go and see if anyone has bought any tickets for tonight's show."
How long had the movie been open at that point?
For like an hour.
So it had just opened. Okay.
It was about one or two in the afternoon. Like around the time that the first matinee would have started. All that I really wanted to do was see the poster [at the Sunset Five in L.A.] and ask the little ticket booth guy if anyone had bought any tickets. Is that so wrong? I didn't think so.
(Laughs) It's the middle of the afternoon?
It's the middle of the afternoon on a bright, clear day. And I look just like me. I didn't take any precautions to cover myself up. I didn't really think about it. So we go up [to the theater] and we go up [to the poster]...
And, honestly, were you actually sort of into being recognized?
No, I wasn't interested in that at all, because I didn't really think that anyone would be around at that point. I was really more interested in knowing if people randomly were coming to see my movie on opening night.
Strangers.
Yeah, it intrigued me. Like unbelievably so. So I go over to the ticket booth guy and I said, "Hi, I just want to know if anyone has bought any tickets to ED'S NEXT MOVE" and he looks at me and says, "No." And then he saw my face and I looked sort of bummed, so he says, "Y'know, most people don't buy tickets for the night time shows until about five." He was like, "Don't worry about it." Because he recognized my face from the poster. He said, "Don't worry, we're all going to come and see your movie." And I was like, "Okay." So we're stepping away from the ticket booth and walking towards the escalator and in between the escalator and me, there's a very handsome young man. Like a really normal-looking handsome young man. You got it?
Yeah.
Someone that I definitely would look twice at on the street. You know what I'm saying?
Okay.
And he's standing there with his arms crossed and he's looking at the poster and then me. Poster, me. Poster, me. And I was kind of like, how gross, how cheeseball and I grabbed Ed and we continued walking to the escalator and this guy reaches out and grabs my elbow, kind of like, firmly. And this is where everything starts to go askew, because I should have realized that anyone who was touching me like that was not all right. I looked at him and he said, "Is that you?" And I was like, "What?" Because I just didn't want to acknowledge it.
(Laughs).
But he kind of tricked me, because he was so nice. He said, "Is that you?" [pointing at the poster]. He gave me this really beautiful dumpling smile, you know? And so I said, "Yeah, it's me." And I started to walk away and he said, "I just saw your movie." And he grabbed my elbow again. But then he crossed his arms and he just stared at me and there was this very long awkward pause and I laughed and said, "Oh well, obviously you didn't think much of it if you're not saying anything." I turned away again. He grabbed my elbow again. He said, "It was the worst movie that I have ever seen in my life." I looked at Ed and was waiting for an apology or "I'm joking" or "It wasn't that great of a movie, but I thought your work was great or whatever. But he said nothing. Nothing. He just stared at me. So I said, "Wow. You're very honest." But every time I tried to walk away, he stepped in front of me.
Where was Ed in all of this?
Ed was stunned. And he was sort of scared and standing behind me. And then the guy asked me for his seven dollars back. He said, I came out to look at the poster to see if there were any reviews, because I couldn't imagine anyone would give this film a good review and I kind of mumbled, yeah, well, Siskel and Ebert gave it two thumbs up. And then Ed said something that I can't even remember because I was in such a humiliated fog. And then I started to cry.
You did?
Yeah, it was awful. I lost control and my face crumbled and I looked at him and started to cry. I grabbed Ed's hand and ran into the Virgin Record store, where I had the most unbelievable nervous little breakdown. I was crying so hard that a couple of people came over from behind the counter to see if I was all right. They were like, oh my God, look! I turned around and I realized that I was standing in front of this huge display for the CD [from Ed's Next Move], with like fifteen CDs taped to a fucking display with our big poster. And I thought to myself, well, if this is the worst that I'll feel, then I'm all right. You know what I mean? Because it was so laughable at that point.
I bet that guy was a struggling actor or a filmmaker or whatever.
It was very upsetting. Because, you know, I thought he was so cute and I thought he was going to say, hey, you know, the camera loves you and can I take you to dinner?
Yeah.
That's sort of what I was thinking in the back of my head. But it taught me a huge lesson. Now I know that I'm never going to put myself in that position again.
I hear what you're saying. When I think about fame and being recognized, I don't really take into account that some gorgeous guy is going to be like, you're not talented and not really that pretty. You know?
(Laughs).
What do you think about fame?
Well, I think there are so many different levels of fame. There is movie-star fame and then 
there is being famous for being a good actor, which is completely separate from being a movie star, I think. I was really lucky growing up, because my mom and dad are both very connected in the music industry and the acting industry and so I grew up around a lot of celebrities. I didn't ever really think about things like being recognized in the street or having people ask for my autograph, because it seemed kind of tacky and like second-nature. The kind of thing that I want is, and it sounds like a Hallmark card, but what intrigues me about [fame] is being recognized for...not necessarily changing someone's life, because I have a hard time thinking that I could change someone's life...but for making people laugh or making them angry. I was doing a play in L.A. once and people hated that fucking play. They hated it. Like seventy percent of the audience would leave the theater incensed, because of the obscene language or because of the lesbian love-scene. We would get minimal applause at the end. People would leave when the lights went down at the end of the last act. They wouldn't even stay to clap for us. And that made me really happy for some reason. It would also make me really happy when someone would recognize me [from that play] and say, it really upset me and it depressed me for days afterward. That's a very different response than: I hated your movie and it's the worst movie that I've ever seen. That is not the way.
Give me my money back.
Yeah. That is just evil. But being able to talk with people about what it is that entertains them or makes them angry or makes them sad...aaaah, I think that is so beautiful. It is such a weird thing to have to put your work out there. I know that people have said this a million times and it's like no great big interesting thing to say, but nobody follows an investment banker around during the day and checks out their work. [Acting] is such a public thing. You have to be into the public response.
You have to, on some level.
Absolutely. I used to get really mad at [the Lee Strasberg Institute], because there would be people in class who would just sit around and be like, I'm no good. And if you'd say that that was a good scene and if you were honestly paying your respect to someone who had just sort of ripped their heart out on stage or whatever, so many of them wouldn't accept the compliment. It would drive me bananas. Anyone who is pursuing what we do...acting, singing or performance art...
Humiliating your ex-boyfriend...
Yeah. All of that. If you're pursuing it to any degree, you think that you're good. Because you would not go to class and you would not try to get an image and you would not send your stories to a magazine if you didn't, in the back of your head at least, admit to yourself that you thought you were good. And it drives me batty when some actors say, you know I suck and I don't know anything and they complain and complain and complain about how they have no talent. I'm like, why don't you at least own up to the one percent of you that thinks that you do have talent?
Well, to me it's so much about posturing, because being proud of your work and not getting anywhere seems sort of shameful on some level. You know? Even though it shouldn't be that way.
But I also think that not getting anywhere sometimes has to do with not being proud of your work. Like, if you're simping around, people are eventually going to believe you.
The amazing thing is that it's all a big confidence game. And whoever acts the most confident wins.
Yeah. It's the people who, and we've all seen a million talk shows and read a million interviews, and it's the ones who say, I always knew. I always knew that I was going to get somewhere.
I mean I sit in my apartment for days on end feeling like a fucking failure, like I can't write another thing. And yet, in my heart, I know this is all part of the process.
It's such a weird thing about how fame can change someone's ideas about what they are proud of about themselves and about their work. I mean, it's extraordinarily exciting to have people compliment you out of the blue and say that they recognized you from something that you've done, whether it was a play they saw a couple of years ago or a movie that was out.
And have people recognized you from ED'S NEXT MOVE?
Not too many here [in New York]. But when I was in L.A., at the time that 
it was opening, I would get some people coming up and saying things to me that were very nice. And most of the time that if anyone is going to make a move to come up to you, it's to say something nice. When [ED'S NEXT MOVE] came out, people I went to school with suddenly came out of the goddamned woodwork, because they'd heard me on the radio or something. This nasty clique of people who [hated] me in high school suddenly were like oh, we all knew that you were going to be a big star. And that is a goddamned lie. Because when I was in high school and I was in plays those same people made fun of me constantly behind my back. No one would come and see any of the work that I did. It was all about playing sports or being a cheerleader. I was the "drama fag." Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
And now, those same people are like, oh, we always knew that you had what it takes and blah, blah, blah.
Who needs it? I can walk around by myself and not have a boyfriend and be home on a Saturday night and have nobody call me for two days and all that and still feel like I'm a worthwhile human being.
Right.
And at the same time you know I still am going to haul my ass up on stage and entertain people, so that they walk away and go, "Oh my God she is so cool".
Yes, absolutely. That is definitely part of why I do what I do.
When did you start acting, when you were a little kiddie?
I did something as a junior in high school. And I didn't really dig it. It was a very serious play. Um...and...and I had to play a Puerto Rican man. And so I sort of like, I don't know if I like this. But then, oddly enough, they did West Side Story the following year and cast me as a Puerto Rican woman . I did Anita. And that was like a whole different sphere. I'm an extraordinarily emotional person.
I haven't noticed that about you at all.
You haven't?
No. In fact, you seem totally shut down.
(LAUGHS.) I'm a total freak. And an idiot. But the way that I deal with that [is by going on] auditions and letting some of that out. I need to rip it out and let it go and be all of these things that are twirling around in my head. Because when I was a child, I was miserable. I was a complete outcast and constantly vying for people's attention, because I was very lonely. I was so pissed off as a little kid and I didn't understand what being pissed off was all about. When I finally got to stomp it out on stage in West Side Story, it was as if I played the drums for seven hours. And that was really remarkable to me. And I just figured out that the best thing for me to do is to be able to rip all that out and give it to somebody else. It is so good. I just wish that everybody could take an acting class.
I know. It's like wishing that everyone you knew were in therapy.
Yeah. Exactly.
Do you date a lot of actors?
I can really only name like two people who I have dated who weren't actors or who weren't in the business at all. Those were the longest relationships I've had and the least upsetting when they were over. They weren't as volatile. And they weren't volatile breakups. And any of my breakups with the actors that I have gone out with have always been just wrong. Bad feelings. Bad everything. When actors go out with actors, everything has got to be heightened. You know, as if we are always on stage or always on film. And sometimes I just want to throttle them and be like, relax, bring it down, realize that this is still fun. Sitting here and having coffee and not doing drugs and going to dark bars and staying out all night and sleeping with each other's girlfriends and whatever. I think that actors feel that there has always got to be some drama going on in order to feel important, in order to feel alive and in order to feel like they exist. Even if they're not on stage or not in front of the camera, there has got to be some kind of friction going on. It is something that I have always disagreed with. And I think that is probably why so many of my relationships are really short-lived. It is surprising if I can get to three months with a man.
Well, you and I are connectors and you want to go to that place really quickly with someone.
Yeah.
You invest so much too quickly..
That's true. I mean, you know, fuck acting. We all know what this business is about as far as rejection and people telling you things and not coming through. And not stepping up to the plate. But as far as relationships with people, I have been sucker-trumped over and over again [in the six years I've lived in New York]. More so than in college and high school and junior high put together.
It's the same with relationships between women. Like you can be excited about someone, but you're not going to start spending every single evening together. I'm not going to call you in the morning and be like okay, what are you wearing? And where are we going? And what are we doing?
Right.
And what are you doing for dinner? But I think that if you were a guy it would be hard to not do that.
I know. And I think that has everything to do with sexual intimacy, because once you become sexually intimate with somebody, no matter what you have been through you are always desperate to make sure that person still wants to play. But, in terms of us and our friendship, you know, you and I haven't just moved to a new town. What we both know about each other is that we have enormously full lives here in the city and very busy careers and yet we still want to find some time to make a new friend. You meet other people and you are like, hey, no time, not interested, would love to see you at another party. Don't ask for my number please.
Right.
Because you already know that with your own agenda, it's not going to be worth it. It's not something that I want to invest in or find out about. But what is nice between two women like us is that we know what [each other's] lives are like.
It's about finding someone who is actually in a similar place
Yeah.
Tell me about your mom.
She's brilliant. An angel dropped from heaven.
She's an astrologer. Did she do it when you were growing up?
Yeah, but only as a hobby. When we were on [Martha's Vineyard]. she would occasionally do someone's chart, if there was nothing else to do. Then when she got divorced [from my stepfather] and, at that point, people started to offer her money. Because the charts that she was doing for people were so intricate and so complex that people would just sort of slide her a little money. She started to charge very little and then she would only do it for friends of friends who called and word-of-mouth clients and whatever. And now ten years later, people are paying her a lot of money and she has a big office attached to the house. And she has a whole computer system that she developed for her own astrology. And she does seminars in Boston, New York and in California. Her astrology is spiritual advice. It's not about predicting the future.
It's not psychic. It's intuitive...
It's intuitive. She considers herself a psychic but she would never ever ask for money for that. She does Tarot cards and stuff like that for fun. But with the astrology it's very, very serious. I was miserable when she was doing it when I was younger. Everybody called her a gypsy. And a witch. She was talked about as the witch of the town that I grew up in. And it was horrifying and I would agree with [the people who said that]. But our relationship was very bad when I was younger. And then when I left for college, all of a sudden all of my friends wanted to get their charts done. And I was like, so maybe that's kind of cool. And maybe I kind of have a cool mom. I'm so lucky. She is very young. I mean she's 50 and she looks like she is 30.
She went to Naomi Campbell's Halloween party.
Yeah. She did.
My parents were invited to that.
Not only did she go, she rocked out. She rocked out to four in the morning with Naomi. She did Kate Moss's [chart] and stuff like that. After the party she was set up with like all of these super models and I don't know what to do about that.
I don't think that you want your mom hanging out with super models.
No.
Your mom or your boyfriend.
I would rather die.
Do you have a boyfriend?
I am dating someone.
You are dating someone.
Dating might even be a really strong word. And in fact, actually we were just on the phone discussing all of that.
What's going on?
Yesterday we were on the phone for hours. I can't understand why he doesn't want to spend all of this time with me. And I like turned into a crazy girl. And the whole time I'm like, you don't even want to be saying that. What are you doing? But I knew that what I wanted was to see what his response was going to be.
Right.
And whether it was going to be like, you're crazy and I'm so crazy about you. Unfortunately, it was in between. He was like, you're right, but I don't want to stop seeing you and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I'm right? I wore my heart on my sleeve. And it ended with that. But we really like each other and really enjoy each other but we are going to take it really slow. My mother always told me that women are queens. Every women is a princess and a queen and deserves to be treated with that kind of respect. And you know I have always believed that. That there are certain things that I goddamn deserve. I deserve for someone to be proud to be in public with me and want to hold my hand in front of people and not want to keep things a secret and do things on the sly or whatever. I have had these relationships and they bit my ass. Do you know what I mean?
I have had so many of those and I can't stand it. And literally I have to walk away from that. I don't want to be covert.
I just don't like the idea that I'm the one putting the effort in and I am the aggressive friend that makes plans, but I have been going through that since I was little.
Me too.
Pursuing men and pursuing friends. Pursuing everything.
