MARC MARON (Alternative Comedian)

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MARC MARON (Alternative Comedian)
Part Two

This is Part Two of a very lengthy conversation I had with my friend, comedian Marc Maron. It stands alone. You can read last week's if you want. I mean, you should, of course, to get the full effect. But you're welcome to read Part Two before you read Part One. Just because you're here now. And maybe you even did it right and already read last week's. Do what you want.

Marc Maron: I'm very excited about the new $100 bills. I know everything about them. I saw a show on TV about their design and what had to be considered in securing the note. It's a very difficult process securing a note.

Anita Liberty: I don't really want to launch into a whole discussion about this.

So you're an engraver and you know, you update security bonds and shit. You know you get to do that. But how often does a guy get a break to make a new head on a bill? And they had to get new plates for a new Franklin head. This guy did it. It took him a year. I mean, it's just an amazingly focused trade. It was one of those days where I was watching TV and thinking, "I should be doing this. I should have a craft."

Did you come away from this evening thinking you should be a snake wrangler?

No, that one didn't do it. I've had moments where I thought that I should work with gorillas. But anyway, this was one of those moments where I realized that my life was completely and utterly without purpose.

(We're waiting for seats in a restaurant at this point.)

Do you ever get recognized in these situations? Like, can you ever use your celebrity to get some clout when you're in a restaurant?

No, I don't have that much recognizability. The type of recognition I have is that people look at me and then they'll look at me again. And then they ask if they know me from high school and I have to say, no, well, I'm on TV and they're like, okay.

You should just say, yeah, we went to high school together.

It happened to me the other day. This girl thought she knew me, and I just didn't want to give it to her. I get into this horrible problem, which comes out of my insecurity, where people will come up to me and say, "I think you're really funny." And I'll say, "Well, what did you see me on?" And they'll tell me, and I'll say, "That wasn't such a good show. You know, there's a better one..."

"Can I have your address, so I can send you a tape?"

It's horrible what I put people through from my insecurity. You meet a fan and you just want to be polite, you don't want to be like, "Hey, you want to hang out for a little while?"

Do you do that?

No. But I have.

"Do you want to hang out because you liked me once on TV?"

"You liked me on TV. Do you like me in real life? Please? I'm much sadder in real life."

Do you ever think that we're going to think back on this time that we're in right now and see that we had our own sort of little group of people we hung out with who are now significant in their own way?

Uh, yeah. Sometimes. I don't think that any of the people I know will be that significant.

[Laughs.]

But, hopefully, I don't know. Everything's expanding, you know? Like TV and movies and technology and whatever you're doing this thing for. The web page. All that shit.

Mm-hmmm.

Which just means that it's gonna be a lot harder to be significant.

What do you mean?

Everything is trivialized.

Well, I think that the conversations that I have with the people I hang out with are the most important thing going on right now. Maybe that's just me.

Yeah. I guess I think that sometimes. No, actually I don't think that at all. I usually think it's bullshit and it's sad that so many of us have so little to do except just sit and fester about our own stupid and shallow lives. I rarely come across much wisdom in the people in our generation. Wise, no. Bright, maybe.

What do you think about fame? Do you feel like you pursue it?

I pursue it in the sense that I just wish more people would recognize me.

And that would make you feel how?

It would make me feel validated. Actually, I don't think I do pursue fame. I honestly believe that if I honestly applied myself to something I could probably do it very well. I could probably get whatever the fuck I wanted. I don't know why that hasn't happened with whatever it is I'm doing.

But, on some level, it has.

Yeah, I guess I don't see it.

You just change your goals as they get met.

Yeah, probably. And I don't appreciate them once I meet them. But sometimes I do. Sometimes I do.

I've asked you this before, but do you know what would make you happy?

Just a little peace of mind. How do I get that?

I don't know.

I don't know. I wish somebody would just tell me to stop. It's all over. Go get the little house in New Mexico. Hang out. I wish I had more focus. I wish I felt like I had a purpose. I'm feeling a little purposeless.

Purposeless?

Without purpose.

Do you have a goal, even if you don't want to talk about it?

Well, my goal's always been to feel grounded in my personality and have a personal philosophy.

I meant a career goal.

A career goal? Yeah, I'd like to grow more as a comic, in a way. I just want to find something that fits me, you know. Be on someone else's boat, you know? You know what I'm saying?

But sometimes you have to create those opportunities.

Right, well, I'm trying to figure that one out. I'm happy I'm naturally funny. But I'm unhappy that I don't use it to its full extreme.

But you do, in a way, Mark.

Yeah.

I mean, how else could you be using it other than getting onstage and being funny for strangers?

Right. Weird thing to base your life on. I'm breaking down.

Don't do it.

I won't.

I mean, what else are you gonna do, like go to an office? Give me a break? I mean, come on.

No, but there are all kinds of possibilities. I can fuck up everything and become a sad, pathetic mess. Or I could keep doing good work and sort of keep growing at the pace I'm growing and maybe, you know, actually achieve some of the goals I want to achieve. Or I could sell out for short money whenever it comes along. And hate myself for it. I don't know. It all depends on how much self-hatred you can take, how many secrets you're holding and how much you're into selling yourself. How much you're disappointed in yourself is really important, ultimately.

I don't know what selling out means for you.

Selling out is like doing something that you wouldn't have done on your own, but someone has either convinced you to do it or you really need the money and you've somehow managed to rationalize it and make it seem like it's okay. That's all. It's not a matter of making money or even anybody seeing it. Selling out is a very personal thing.

I can't imagine what it would be that would make me sell out. There's nothing that I'm not willing to do for the experience of doing it.

Yeah, yeah.

At this moment, anyway.

Yeah, okay, I understand that, but I don't agree with you.

Well, you're in a different place.

Yeah.

I think you're in a different place. I think you've been through what I'm going through already.

Yeah. Maybe. [Yawns.] Well, everyone's insecure. I don't know.

Well, you're definitely more insecure than me.

Thanks. I appreciate it.

I'm secure. I am.

Okay.

All right.

I'll cheer you on. I'll let you have it.

Fuck you.

Fuck me? Is that what you said? You just said, "Fuck you"?

I did.

Really? Wow.

In the most friendly way.

Oh.

I was posturing.

Are you brokenhearted? Are you really brokenhearted?

A little bit, yeah. I'm getting over it.

Was it like a personal broken-heart thing? Or like a love thing? Like a guy thing?

A guy thing triggered the deeper broken heart, you know?

Yeah.

The guy-thing brought up a lot of sadness I didn't know I had.

Yeah, that's the worst. I think the best thing that comes out of something like that is that you just realize that life is fucking short, man.

Yep.

And I'm entering Phase Two.

Right.

You know, I have to start fucking reassessing my priorities and figuring out why the fuck I'm doing it. And if I'm not doing the things I want to do because they would be, I don't know, interesting and joyful, then I just shouldn't do them.

Right. But a lot you don't have control over, you know?

Yeah.

I mean, a lot you can fix, but a lot you can't. A lot you have to learn by being patient and not succumbing to time pressure.

For what?

Just to not accelerate certain moments in your life.

Right. "The process."

Yeah.

I love that one. The process.

Well...

[Laughs.] Yeah, that's great, man. That's very comforting. Life is a process. Great. So is cancer.

What do you want?

To be comfortable with a simpler life.

Not making the life you have work, but desiring a life that's different from your own?

No. I just want to keep learning lessons, you know? I'm a little bored with myself right now. And I'm a little unsure of what to do. And I'm unclear about whether what is being offered is validation for what I do or is really anything that I should pride myself on. In the same way that the rejection comes from those same people [who affirm me]. So I sort of try to figure out why this is important to me, and can I let it go? Because it's obviously ridiculous. And to think that my fucking satisfaction and joy come from such a devious, stupid, selfish aspiration. It just makes me feel like a giant fucking twelve-year-old. And like I'm not ever going to be given any sort of real wisdom or fucking character or responsibility. I'm just too childish and irresponsible to do it. Do you understand what I'm saying?

I do. I'm overly entertained by you.

You understand the poetry.

And then I'm such an egomaniac, I think that everyone else will understand it, too.

It'll probably look good in print. I talk too much sometimes in interviews. But sometimes, if people write it all down, if they actually print everything you say, it makes sense. It's when you talk too much and they take two sentences where it just becomes about fucking. You're like, what the hell was that all about?

Is this a warning?

No. I know you're not gonna do that. You got some space to fill, don't you?

Yeah, I do whatever I want.

That's what I mean. I don't understand what it is exactly, what you're doing.

Shhhh.

Sorry.

Don't make me explain it.

Okay.

Because then they're going to realize that they're paying me to hang out with my friends.

How do you want to finish this?

I don't know. We don't have to finish. It can be a new interview with you each week. Mark Maron: Installment Four.

Insecure Again. Existential Crisis Number Four.

I'm not going to do it again unless you give my insecurities equal time.

Do I have to start fucking listening to you?

I'm not going to just coddle you. You probably have enough people in your life who do that, you know? I'll do it a little bit, but you have to do it back.

Right.

And you have to say things like, "No, you really are talented, you really do have something to say."

You do. You have a lot of things to say.

Do you want a half hour of TV time a week, where you could do whatever you want, say whatever you want?

That'd be cool I'd settle for five minutes even.

Well...

I'm going to miss you now. I'm going to be lonely.

I know. It's kind of sad, isn't it?

Yeah. I don't like being alone at all.

I'm lonely all the time. So if you think you're feeling lonely and you're just waiting for your fiancée to come back from Phoenix in four days, think about me all the time.

Right.

Okay. Are you going to be sad if I leave? Am I abandoning you?

No. Not at all. I just hope you haven't been bored.

I haven't been bored. You're the best.

You are.

No, you are. I'll call you tomorrow. We'll make plans. Are you really around during the day?

Yeah. [Chuckles.] Of course I am.

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