From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue May 20 15:16:47 1997 Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:36:13 -0700 From: "David A. Badger" Organization: The Badger Den (South) To: Peter Wendell Cc: "bmw-techNoSpam@NoSpamroadkill.com" , "bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com" Subject: BMW: Re: R1100R transmission woes X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199704201227.4337205.7NoSpam@NoSpamcharon_mbrooks.mc.duke.edu> Reply-To: "David A. Badger" Peter Wendell wrote: > snip > The symptoms are as follows: > under heavy accelleration in first and second gears at around 6,000 RPM -- > right around the HP peak -- it feels as if the bike suddenly looses power for > about half a second or so and then power returns very abruptly with a nasty > mechanical noise coming from the rear end. snip >I called my dealer, but the > mechanics attitude seems to be "Well, you can bring it in, but I've never > heard of that happening and I don't really believe that it can happen". I would > like as much information as possible so I can reason with him. > Peter, I never had any noise from the rear end. It does sound like you have the infamous "Tranny Bump" problem that many of us have already experienced. Below, I pasted a prior message concerning same, mine is the last one. Print a copy of this message and stick it under the nose of that mechanic and start reasoning. Sounds like you will be getting a new tranny pretty soon. I'm amazed at all the help we receive on the list when one of us has a problem with our bikes. Thanks to all! Good Luck, David A. Badger 96 R11RT > I'm restating a R11 tranny problem. If you're riding on of these bikes, > copy this info. > > What follows are three descriptions of power loss due to tranny defect. My > tranny (Dali Meeow) is scheduled for an April 21 transplant. The other two > have already been done, one of them twice. > > Stephen (Dali Meeow) said there was a second gear bump ... which has grown > into a second and third gear bump. Under heavy acceleration in second gear, > it seems as though the rev limiter is kicking in at 5,500 or 6,000 rpm. > I'm accelerating fine when I feel a bump and the bike stops accelerating > for a second, then regains its composure and resumes pulling up to the 7,500 > red line. > > Paul Glaves responded with the following: > > >The problem is a weak torque compensator spring. The transmission input > >shaft is equipped with a two-lobe face cam, designed to release under high > >torque conditions. If the spring is marginally too weak it will release and > >produce exactly the symptoms you describe. > > > >Voni's R1100RS had two transmissions replaced due to this problem. At that > >time BMW was not repairing the transmissions but was taking/sending them > >back. See your dealer. > > > >If your dealer has questions about the transmission, have him call Norman > >Jones at Engle Motors in Kansas City (816) 241-7554. Norman has dealt with > >this problem 3 times that I know of. > > And now David Badger says (April 8) : > > > after approx. 10k miles I began experienceing what > >I thought was an engime miss...not back firing...not sputtering...just > >an instantanious and short loss of power. The problem almost always > >ocuured in a corner while excellerating and at 3500 - 3700 rpm. The > >dealer checked the bike twice and found nothing. A third visit yielded > >tranny problems. When they drained the oil, they found small metal > >particals. A complete new tranny is being installed this week, courtesy > >of BMW. David A. Badger 96 R11RT From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon May 26 12:05:29 1997 From: CDTyler1NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:35:04 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Tranny oil Question Reply-To: CDTyler1NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com In a message dated 97-05-26 10:19:17 EDT, Karl writes: << I have seen on the list where people have used synthetic oil in the tranny and the final drive to take some of the clunkiness (sp) out of the k-transmission. I have thought about doing this, but need to know what the consensus is on the list, of what type and viscosity to use. I find that the tranny on the K100Lt (1988) that I have is quite clunky. Any recommendations on this? >> Cal BMW Triumph uses Spectro full synthetic gear oil 75-140. You can send them e-mail on their website at www.calbmwtriumph.com. Catl Tyler Millbrae, CA '96 R1100RT, '86 R80RT From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon May 26 12:08:22 1997 From: EricincazNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:44:06 -0400 (EDT) To: krosenbaNoSpam@NoSpamerols.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Tranny oil Question Reply-To: EricincazNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com In a message dated 97-05-26 10:02:45 EDT, you write: << I have seen on the list where people have used synthetic oil in the tranny and the final drive to take some of the clunkiness (sp) out of the k-transmission. >> I would suggest you try Swepco 201 Gear Oil......It's been the secret stuff for 911/930 Porsche gearboxes (also Getrag ) for years....Kinda hard to find tho' ..... It's a dino oil ( 80/90) product that works wonders in any stiff shifting gearbox...It is available mail order from Paragon Products...800. 200. 9366 NoSpam@NoSpam 38.50/gal magic stuff........ Eric Cleaveland K1100RS (many others ) and the Boxer.....95 Carrera (993) From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon May 26 12:37:05 1997 Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:04:04 -0400 From: Sid Mann To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Tranny oil Question References: <3.0.2.32.19970526095425.007ab100NoSpam@NoSpampop.erols.com> Reply-To: Sid Mann Karl Rosenbaum wrote: > > I have seen on the list where people have used synthetic oil in the tranny > and the final drive to take some of the clunkiness (sp) out of the > k-transmission. I have thought about doing this, but need to know what the > consensus is on the list, of what type and viscosity to use. I find that > the tranny on the K100Lt (1988) that I have is quite clunky. Any > recommendations on this? > > TIA > > Karl Rosenbaum > Woodbridge, Va > 88 K100LT "grandpa" > BMWRA # 22184 BMWMOA #77012 > AMA #567210 and BMWBMW #1650 > krosenbaNoSpam@NoSpamerols.com > http://www.erols.com/krosenba Yo, Karl Last year I changed to Spectro 75W/90 GL-5 full synthetic gear oil on my '92 K100 and noticed the improvement the first 200 feet from the driveway!!! It won't remove all the clunkyness, but will seem like a new tranny. My dealer suggested the product and I have no intention to use anything else in the tranny and final drive. I still get false neutrals when shifting while stopped, though. Let me know if it works as well for you. Sid Mann, Athol, Massachusetts '92 K100RS "Loco Motion" '94 K75S "Sped" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon May 26 14:16:45 1997 From: "Rob Lentini" To: , "IBMWR" Subject: BMW: re:Tranny oil Question Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:49:07 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" Karl asks: ==== Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:54:25 -0400 From: Karl Rosenbaum Subject: BMW: Tranny oil Question I have seen on the list where people have used synthetic oil in the tranny and the final drive to take some of the clunkiness (sp) out of the k-transmission. I have thought about doing this, but need to know what the consensus is on the list, of what type and viscosity to use. I find that the tranny on the K100Lt (1988) that I have is quite clunky. Any recommendations on this? TIA Karl Rosenbaum Woodbridge, Va 88 K100LT "grandpa" BMWRA # 22184 BMWMOA #77012 AMA #567210 and BMWBMW #1650 krosenbaNoSpam@NoSpamerols.com http://www.erols.com/krosenba ==== Karl: You can certainly use the expensive sythethic gear oil in the trans, but why spend the money needlessly? Use BMW spec mineral based gear lube spiked with 3-5% by volume of Dow Corning M Gear Oil Additive (moly). I've used this stuff for years, based on recommendation from legendary BMW wrench Oak Okleshen. You'll be amazed at the difference! Works in front forks and final drives, too. About $24 per quart but goes a LONG way at 3-5%. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue May 27 00:16:22 1997 Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:08:13 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Don Eilenberger Subject: BMW: RE: Tranny oil Question Cc: Karl Rosenbaum Reply-To: Don Eilenberger >Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:54:25 -0400 >From: Karl Rosenbaum >Subject: BMW: Tranny oil Question > >I have seen on the list where people have used synthetic oil in the tranny >and the final drive to take some of the clunkiness (sp) out of the >k-transmission. I have thought about doing this, but need to know what the >consensus is on the list, of what type and viscosity to use. I find that >the tranny on the K100Lt (1988) that I have is quite clunky. Any >recommendations on this? > >TIA > >Karl Rosenbaum Karl - I won't argue the point of 'clunky' for your transmission, but, I will ask that you try a fairly simple experiment before trying to cure what may not actually be a problem - but a technique thingie.. Next time you ride you bike - try upshifts with only using about 3/4" of clutch travel (ie, after the freeplay is taken in, ie {again}, when you start feeling some increase in resistance to pulling in).. On downshifts - don't pull it all the way in, try 1/2 way and a slight blip of the throttle just as you pull it.. Clunkiness on BMW transmissions is not necessarily due to the gear lube or assembled state of the transmission.. when you pull the clutch all the way in - you're removing all driving force from the tranny and the gears spin down big time (ie, decrease speed). It is not a syncro tranny (like a car), and it doesn't have a wet clutch (like the typical bike) which continues to exert a driving force on the tranny. It's basically a very simple and stone-axe simple clutch/tranny.. If you were brought up on transmissions from Japan - you're used to ones that snik-snik from gear to gear - the snik-snik is possible because the clutch - being a multiplate wet clutch NEVER entirely looses drive power to the tranny. It may disengage enough that you don't creep forwards with it pulled in - but it is still providing some force on the transmission gears. The reason this is important - is that the gears must mesh (tooth to opening between teeth) to engage.. the driving force provided by a multiplate wet clutch means the gears never entirely stop spinning - making this meshing action very easy. With a dry clutch (BMW) - when you pull it in - all the way in - things start to slow down in the tranny real quick.. the teeth don't mesh - and you get a KLUNK. What the 3/4" technique does - it relieves pressure on the gearset so it CAN change gears and do it without an impact problem (ie - damage).. but keeps them under a very slight clutch drag so they keep spinning - making them go "snik-snik" - which is how my K tranny behaves when treated right. The 'blip' on downshifts - brings the gear clusters back up to speed for an increase in gear ratios.. a bit complicated to explain - but try it, it works. When you're done playing - please let me know if you really think some synthetic oil is really gonna answer the shifting problems - or a better skilled rider is really what helps! Best, ======================================= Don Eilenberger Spring Lk Hts, NJ, USA deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com ======================================= From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue May 27 09:10:59 1997 From: steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 06:41:26 -0600 Organization: PC Solutions, Inc. To: jcorderoNoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: RS1100 Tranny Problems...NEED ADVISE!!! References: <338A84DD.1580NoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com> Reply-To: steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com jcorderoNoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm asking that anyone out there who has had any transmission work done > on their RS1100 will reply to me with pros, cons, woes, and (hopefully) > how happy they are with the work done on their BMW's. >........... > My RS1100 has just been diagnosed with a broken tranny after just 4K >........... > The BMW dealer is going to contact BMW to see what they will do and >........... > bought my RS in October of 95 while I was living in New England and it's >........... > > jcorderoNoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com First things first. As a matter of courtesy, please offer at least your name when posting to the list. Many of us would like to know who we post to so we can say "Hi, how'd it go?" if we get the pleasure of meeting you face to face. As to your transmission: You should have no problem getting it replaced, probably along with the clutch, without charge. If your dealer is unable to work it out, call 800 831-1111 (BMW Customer Service Hotline) and talk to the motorcycle representitive yourself. Two things to pay particular attention to are: Date of Manufacture (found on the right upper frame behind the triple clamp on a black and white label), and the Serial Number of your bike (found in same place). Buying the bike in October '95, it could be a '94 or a '95. Be sure you have that information handy when you call BMW, without it, they really can't help much. In the event you must discuss this with some knowledge of the history of this problem, it affected a significant number of early bikes, all of which (to my knowledge) were covered in total by BMW. The majority of the affected bikes were pre-1995 model years, but some 1995's were also afflicted. Good luck. -- I don't suffer from insanity.....I enjoy every minute of it! Steve Aikens, Clovis, New Mexico steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com My BMW URL is http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4323/ Don't drop by very often, it never changes. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue May 27 14:52:45 1997 From: Clarence Dold Subject: Re: BMW: RE: Tranny oil Question To: deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com, krosenbaNoSpam@NoSpamerols.com Reply-To: Clarence Dold Don likes the fan-the-clutch method: > Next time you ride you bike - try upshifts with only using about 3/4" > of clutch travel (ie, after the freeplay is taken in, ie {again}, when > you start feeling some increase in resistance to pulling in).. But then he goes askew: > Clunkiness on BMW transmissions is not necessarily due to the gear > lube or assembled state of the transmission.. when you pull the clutch > all the way in - you're removing all driving force from the tranny and > the gears spin down big time (ie, decrease speed). It is not a syncro > tranny (like a car), and it doesn't have a wet clutch (like the typical > bike) which continues to exert a driving force on the tranny. It's basically > a very simple and stone-axe simple clutch/tranny.. On the K bikes, the fact that a spline lube makes the problem "go away" for a few [thousand] miles indicates that you are wrong about the "complete decoupling". The dry clutch does drag, making it ever so important to match RPM before trying to move the shift lever. If you have the clutch pulled all the way in, and let the engine RPM drop way off between shifts, particularly under hard in-gear decelaration, you might be unable to move the shift lever at all. Blipping the throttle at this point _should_ have absolutely no effect, if you are decoupled from the transmission. But it does. Blipping the throttle, with the clutch lever pulled all the way to the handlebar, adjusts the RPM of all the whirling gadgets in the transmission, allowing a smooth shift. > The reason this is important - is that the gears must mesh (tooth to > opening between teeth) to engage.. the driving force provided by a multiplate > wet clutch means the gears never entirely stop spinning - making this > meshing action very easy. With a dry clutch (BMW) - when you pull it > in - all the way in - things start to slow down in the tranny real quick.. > the teeth don't mesh - and you get a KLUNK. Oops. Quite Wrong. The BMW, and I think all motorcycles, never disengage the gear teeth. Cars do. The BMW has shift dogs on the sides of the gears that slide over and engage slots to dogs, but the gear teeth are always in mesh. That really makes no difference with regards to the clutch drive, nor the proper matching of RPM, but it ruins the story line. > What the 3/4" technique does - it relieves pressure on the gearset so > it CAN change gears and do it without an impact problem (ie - damage).. > but keeps them under a very slight clutch drag so they keep spinning - making > them go "snik-snik" - which is how my K tranny behaves when treated right. What your technique does, either with the partial engagement that you prefer, or with as full a disengagement as the BMW will allow, is match the speeds in the tranny to the speed of the input shaft. > The 'blip' on downshifts - brings the gear clusters back up to speed for > an increase in gear ratios.. a bit complicated to explain - but try it, > it works. > When you're done playing - please let me know if you really think some > synthetic oil is really gonna answer the shifting problems - or a better > skilled rider is really what helps! Synthetic might make things slide a little better, so, just like a spline lube, it "helps". Proper RPM matching is what make smooth shifts. I don't know why the BMW requires the matching technique that it does. I used to think that the dry clutch de-coupled completely, but I now know that it does not, which makes both the clutch-disengaged blip work, and explains why a spline lube helps for a while, which I had real trouble understanding originally. My theory is that a single plate clutch drags more than the freely released multi-plates. When the pressure on a multiplate cage is released, the clutch plates can rattle and flop and don't drag much at all: notice the clatter from a multi-plate dry clutch, like some Ducati and Honda race bikes. The driving force of hot engine oil is probably insignificant. -- --- Clarence A Dold - doldNoSpam@NoSpamnetwork.rahul.net - Pope Valley & Napa CA. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 5 19:03:02 1997 From: "Joel Carlson (Volt Comp)" To: "'Bill'" , BMW List Subject: BMW: RE: R90/6 Tranny spline replacement, what parts needed. Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:54:33 -0700 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Joel Carlson (Volt Comp)" Provided the rest of the tranny is okay, you will need: 1 Input shaft Expensive! I bought a used tranny simply because I couldn't afford the input shaft! Or find a used one, (or maybe a rebuilt one???) 1 Input shaft seal. 1 Container lubricant for splines, (if you aren't smearing a little on every few years, it's probably why the splines wore out. At least that's why mine did.) Some Special tools to remove the back cover of the tranny. Pullers and a press to get the bearings on and off the shaft. Depending on how many miles are on it, the shift lever return spring and the nylon detent roller ought to be replaced. There are 6 bearings and some bronze bushings That you will want to check out while you're in there. The bushings go before the bearings do. No ideas on where to get a new shaft, other than Capital or the local BMW dealer. I'm some email or internet snooping would track a used one down. Evidentially un-lubricated input shaft splines are responsible for much of the horrible clunk we often hear when shifting from neutral to first from a stop. Have fun, and let me know what I forgot; cause I plan to rebuild my original tranny eventually. PS: Actually; getting the second used tranny got me going the quickest, and allows me to fix my original one at my leisure. *Joel Carlson Transport: 76 R90 Work: a-joelcaNoSpam@NoSpammicrosoft.com Or: joelscarlsonNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill [SMTP:billNoSpam@NoSpamvm3.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 1997 10:12 AM > To: BMW List > Subject: BMW: R90/6 Tranny spline replacement, what parts > needed. > .... This happens 3 weeks after the splines desplined on > the transmission on my R90/6. > > Well, I guess I have to fix my R90 soon and I want to > know, what parts are required, what is the usual cost > and where is the best location to procure these. > > Thanks, > Bill. > http://www.nauticom.net/users/wpheckel > 1994 R100 Mystic ( needs a tire ) > 1975 R90/6 ( Needs even more .. ) > > "If you can't say "fuck", then you can't say, "Fuck the Government." > -- > Lenny Bruce From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jun 14 15:02:22 1997 To: EsquireTedNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: K Questions X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-7,15,18-21,23-27 From: rwmundayNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Robert W Munday) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:46:49 EDT Reply-To: rwmundayNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Robert W Munday) Ted, On Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:23:47 -0400 (EDT) EsquireTedNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com writes: <<< Occasionally (too damn occasionally!) it simply won't go into first gear. Is this normal? >>> This happens to me from time to time, especially after I have made a hard stop (for a red light) in fifth gear. Also, occasionally, my LCD gear position indicator will blank out during a hard stop in fifth gear. You can sit there and punch the shifter and not know if you have made it to first. A fellow BMW rider suggested this: let out the clutch a little, then downshift, pull in on the clutch and repeat until you are in first. It has worked for me. Maybe our K-bikes prefer being downshifted while rolling. Could be a law, I don't know. I have also had it pop out of first gear into neutral if I did not firmly punch the shifter. There are just times when you cannot come to a quick stop and gracefully shift down four gears. Robert `89 K100LT(A on the fritz) K-Whiner #47 Village Idiot Rolling Broccoli Rider `94 CB250R Nighthawk Montgomery, Alabama We say "SHOOOOOOOOT! Shop And Compare!" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jun 14 21:59:28 1997 From: "Pat Roddy" To: , Subject: BMW: Re: K Questions Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:33:48 -0400 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Pat Roddy" Addendum time, Ted. I haven't really had a good chance to ride the K since the spline lube except for a run around the block early this AM. I'll see if the lube job helps any. I know several other K drivers that have stated the same thing and have observed them double clutching from time to time to get into first. Nature of the beast? Maybe. We'll see here, won't we ;-) pr From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 19 01:58:21 1997 From: lconleyNoSpam@NoSpamhns.com To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Cc: EsquireTedNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:12:09 -0400 Subject: Re: BMW: K Questions Reply-To: lconleyNoSpam@NoSpamhns.com Esquire Ted laments his "new" K11RS shifting: > it simply won't go into first gear. Ted, Rock the bike +/- 2" while you're trying to engage the gear. Amsoil 75W90 synthetic gear lube will help some. X-1R metal conditioner will help *alot*. It also increases the Rockwell hardness by 30 points! My K75 tranny has shifted like butter since adding it. Lou Conley Gaithersburg, MD From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 19 21:22:29 1997 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:43:42 -0700 From: Jim Larsen Organization: Larsen Aviation Services To: lconleyNoSpam@NoSpamhns.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: K Questions Reply-To: Jim Larsen Lou Conley wrote: >X-1R metal conditioner will help *alot*. It also increases the >Rockwell hardness by 30 points! Lou, How does the Rockwell hardness increase? Is the additive giving you a boundary layer of protection equiv to 30 points? I'm not aware of any additive that could increase Rockwell hardness but I can always learn. I'm not flaming you but very interested in further data. I know that my shifting smoothed quite a bit when I added Dow-M, a Molybdenum Disulfide additive, into my KRS & KRT transmissions. Jim Larsen K100RT & K100RS SF Bay Area From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 23 14:51:56 1997 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:53:57 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Jon Zurell Subject: BMW: Tranny additive Cc: lentiniNoSpam@NoSpamazstarnet.com Reply-To: Jon Zurell Rob I tried your and "Oaks" mixture of 3 to 5 % (I used 5%) Dow Gear Guard M (Moly)Concentrate in the tranny of my R11RT. There was an immediate difference in the way it shifts. And it is getting better after only 50 miles. FANTASTIC!!! is all I can say. I also put in into my old John Deere lawn/garden tractor. Another definite improvement. So, if any one out there is not adding Dow Gear Guard M Concentrate in their R11 tranny, they should be.... it's a very marked improvement in shifting. Thanks for the advise, Jon Zurell 96R11RT "Stood alone on a mountain top Starin' at the Great Divide, I could go east I could go west it was all up to me to decide." Bob Seger From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 23 18:51:24 1997 From: Eric VanDenHoek To: Internet BMW Riders Subject: BMW: warning!! transmission additives Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:42:43 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: Eric VanDenHoek Do not add Dow Gear Guard M to synthetic oils. This is direct from Dow. I have engineering info. on this from Dow. E-mail me for that info... Eric VanDenHoek '85 BMW K100RS President - Black Hills BMW Riders Club #203 IBMWR President / BMWMOA # 74038 / MSF Certified Instructor cpthoekNoSpam@NoSpamgeocities.com http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5029/ From jazurellNoSpam@NoSpamapk.net Mon Jun 23 23:59:01 1997 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:58:03 -0400 To: thundtNoSpam@NoSpamslack.net From: Jon Zurell Subject: Re: BMW: Tranny additive At 11:00 PM 6/23/97 -0400, you wrote: >|I found it at a bearing/gear supply house in Akron, OH. They are a > >Ok, cool. Good idea. Though I just read a msg from a guy who >says "Don't add it to synthetic oil in a tranny!" Now I have to >investigate that. > >Thanks! > >-Tom > Tom That is correct. Do not add the molly to synthetic, just use regular gear lube from Penziol/Quaker State/Vavoline, etc. I had changed to Spectro about 1000 miles ago. The shifting did not improve so I went back to real oil with the Molly additive. MUCH better than the Spectro. In the spring I'll remove the Spector from the rear end and go back to real oil there too with the Molly additive. Regards, Jon From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jun 24 11:49:05 1997 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 11:32:26 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: jsrNoSpam@NoSpamtogether.net (Joshua Rappaport/Jennifer Chase-Rappaport) Subject: BMW: R65 clutch plate problem Reply-To: jsrNoSpam@NoSpamtogether.net (Joshua Rappaport/Jennifer Chase-Rappaport) Dan Creadick wrote: > I own a 1981 R65 BMW and just started it up for first time since last > summer. It sounded great, but when i kiked into first gear, it jumped > forward and cut off, thus the clutch not engaging. The clutch cable is > adjusted well, and thus I figure my clutch plate is stuck. Do you know of a > neat trick to "unsticking" the clutch plate? Someone told me I could try > putting it on centerstand, and get it into highest gear I can and manually > turn the rear wheel to try to "unstick it". Does this work? Can you give me > any suggestion or trick to "unstick" the clutch plate without having to > disassemble? > Happy riding and any suggestions greatly appreciated!!! > Thanks, > Dan My R60/6 does the same thing every spring. Fear not! According to Pete Furkey at Midcoast Motorsports (Searsport, Maine-- great shop!) the older R-series dry clutches quite often develop a touch of surface rust when left sitting. Hence the clutch surfaces are essentially rusted together, but probably not badly. The easy fix: Put the bike in neutral, start it, get somebody to push you (or coast down a small hill) until you are going 10 mph or so, then kick the bike up into second. A few good roll-ons with the clutch engaged should free up the plates. 'Course they'll probably do it again next spring... Sorry to post this directly to the list but there was no address for you on the original post. --Joshua Joshua Rappaport Jennifer Chase-Rappaport "--Got no steady address, and my rig is the "Wild, Wild, Heart"" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 1 12:36:39 1997 From: steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 10:03:37 -0600 Organization: PC Solutions, Inc. To: Butch Hays Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Shiftless Shifters Reply-To: steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com Butch Hays wrote: > > >At 08:23 AM 6/16/97 -0500, Diaz Jon wrote: > >> > >> > >>Ted asks... > >> > >>>So my new(ish) K1100RS is working great but for one annoying > >>>thing....Occasionally (too damn occasionally!) it simply won't go > >>>into first gear. I pull in the clutch and push down the shifter > >>>but it just pops right back into neutral. After three or four > >>>tries it will go in with a big "clunk." >.............. > I also have run into a minor shift annoyance at times. I'll put the RS > in first only to have to pop back into neutral. >.............. > and off we went ... Then there was the time, same day, that it popped > out of first, A F T e R I was underway, about halfway through the gear. > Not good. I figgered I just didn't get it fully shifted into first to > start with, you know ... *operator problem*. > > later, > Butch This is a problem that often comes up with the RS. And it normally is a combination of BMW not quite getting the transmission right/operator error. However, beating the problem is easy **unless** you have a sick transmission that BMW needs to fix. Simply hold the shifter down with your foot as you release the clutch in first, hold the shifter up in each gear as you let out the clutch and advance the shifter through the gears. Hold the shifter until your clutch is fully engaged. If the transmission pops out of 1st gear *while holding th shifter down* go to your dealer and get him to check it or call BMW Hotline and get it squared away *before* it hurts you and/or your bike. -- I don't suffer from insanity.....I enjoy every minute of it! Steve Aikens, Clovis, New Mexico steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com My BMW URL is http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4323/ Don't drop by very often, it never changes. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 1 14:59:45 1997 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:35:23 -0600 (MDT) From: Jonathan Evans To: "Ken Blum, Jr." Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: R 1100RT Clutch Problems Reply-To: Jonathan Evans On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Ken Blum, Jr. wrote: > > > > >>I've heard of at least two clutch slippage problems on R 1100 RTs. One I > >>can personally confirm. Anyone out there had similar difficulties??? > >> > >>Rob Lentini > > I have the same problem. Occasionally when going slow in 2nd it will just > slip out of gear! Also when I downshift from 2-1 sometimes it will only go > in to neutral. Very clunky, but i hear that's typical. > > This happenend several times to me on my r11gs, also, occasionally I hear my cousin complain about it on his 11gs too. However, the great guys at Iron Horse in tucson replaced my tranny on the gs with "the new model" which cleaned things up quite well. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 3 08:36:31 1997 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 13:50:42 -0700 From: Tom schirz To: bmwmc Subject: BMW: [Fwd: Recalcitrant trannies] Reply-To: Tom schirz Message-ID: <33B9AE96.6C09NoSpam@NoSpamwaun.tdsnet.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 18:27:50 -0700 From: Tom schirz Reply-To: taschirzNoSpam@NoSpamwaun.tdsnet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com. Subject: Recalcitrant trannies Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also have newish K1100RS, bot new last Aug. Oct/ Nov/Dec about 60 days in shops with eventual replacement of Cont. Unit, Press. Reg., B relay ignition onl, etc(warranty). Initial problem was overheating/20mpg. Good wrench said that all of the electrical readings were not within acceptable limits causing multiple electomisdysfunctions. Have done several trips with about 11k on speedo now. At 6k brother John and I decided to do Cal Hwy 1 so we rode 2500 miles to San Fran, got serviced and headed to Monterrey. Tranny got stickier & stickier. Couldnt downshift.Had to double & triple clutch, was passed by Hogs, Hondas and assorted bicyclists all the way to Carmel. Called dealer and he said input shaft needed lube. Limped home in 4th & 5th mostly. When clutch was lubed, found coarse gear teeth in center of clutch plate; replaced (warranty). Now shifts like butter, better than when new. However Speedo is sticking at 60 intermittently. BMWNA wont authorize repair/replace unless they see stickiness. Do I adopt wrench and double up or video with left while I throttle around? Hmm. In retrospect the mistake was mine. A bike that has been hanging around in a shop unridden for 3-4 yrs with temps-20 to+120F, unridden, unlubed etc is in worse eletromech shape than the bikes in friendly riders hands. I should have bot used, or newer model. Regardless, cant hardly keep the thing in the garage. Guess we have to go back and do Hwy 1 again. Good luck with tranny. Tomas , que whiner :( 1963 R 60 #624 857 auf Munchen, are u still out there? 1968 R 60 + Avon fairing, traded for JD 140 1987 K 75T #0131643 old blu gone to new home 1984 R 80 RT Red Rider for the rain 1993 K 1100RS nu blu; throttle & grin stuck on open From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jul 14 11:26:40 1997 From: bkeaheyNoSpam@NoSpamuswest.com To: "ibmwr" Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 06:19:55 EST Subject: Re: BMW: re: need quick help on fixing my K75s Reply-To: bkeaheyNoSpam@NoSpamuswest.com Addressed to: "Rob Lentini" "ibmwr" ** Reply to note from "Rob Lentini" Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:38:48 -0600 > Problem #1: Clunky shifting (kaKLUNK, upshift/downshift). > Maybe it needs new fluids? > What gear lube is recommended for a 1988 K75s? What kind, how > much? I'm partial to Redline products. Also, (I'm at work, no > manuals here) how difficult is this to change?) You might also try a adjusting the clutch cable. I've encountered klunky shifting twice, found the clutch cable out of adjustment both times. Adjusting it, cured it both times. times. Bruce G. Keahey, U S WEST Advanced Technologies, Boulder, CO "Democracy is three wolves and a sheep deciding who is for lunch." From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 18 12:56:05 1997 From: "Jim Bessette" Original-From: "Jim Bessette" Original-From: "Jim Bessette" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:17:42 -0600 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com, JosephVmanNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Subject: Re: BMW: Synthetic tranny fluid question.. Reply-To: "Jim Bessette" On Jul 18, 11:27am, JosephVmanNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: > I'm afraid I lost the mail I had saved from the thread on synthetic > transmission fluids. Now that I've got over 5K on my GS, I think I'm ready > to switch, and I need to know what the best fluid or mixture is. I've been using Amsoil in both my K and R for years. 75w90 or 80w90. I use the same thing in the final drive. Why does that stuff stink so much? -- Jim Bessette | Experiencing | First BMW '89 K100RS/ABS bessetteNoSpam@NoSpamdrmail.dr.lucent.com | BMW evolution | Second BMW '93 R100GS/PD Westminster, CO. USA | in reverse | Third BMW '68 R50/2 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 22 07:22:35 1997 From: "Ian Schmeisser" To: "Greg Hutchinson" , "Skipper Brown" Cc: , , Subject: Re: BMW: Transmission leak Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 07:07:50 -0400 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Ian Schmeisser" Check the shaft of the shift lever, too. Sometimes they can be pitted or worn and a new seal can leak just as badly as the old one. If your shifter shaft is in this condition, it is possible to adjust for it by how deep you position the seal. The only real fix is a new shaft or reconditioning the old one. Ian Schmeisser Atlanta, GA USA -------- > > > Skipper Brown wrote: > > > > Bike - R80 G/S 1981 > > > > Problem - leaking fluid from the left side of the case where the > > shifter > > attaches. snip Greg Hutchinson wrote: > Sounds like the seal. > > Tip the bike over on the right side...helps to have minimal gas in > tank!.. and remove shifter assembly. Make sure bike is WAY over..tranny > fluid is REAL slippery. > Carefully pry out the leaker and replace. Torque to spec and check the > fluid...when bike is back on center stand. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 22 22:51:58 1997 From: JosephVmanNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:35:53 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Gear Oil additive in rear drive? Reply-To: JosephVmanNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com As per advice of several prezzes, I've purchased a quart of Dow Corning "Gear Guard M" to mix at 5% with hypoid gear oil in my R1100GS gearbox. I was wondering if anyone has experience in using this product in the rear drive oil? I understand this stuff isn't easy to find, so here is a source: IBT Inc. (314) 428-4284. It costs around $24.00 a quart. If there are any prezzes in the St. Louis area who would like to try it in their bike, E-me, as a quart of this stuff will probably last me two decades. Everyone who has used it has nothing but good things to say, so I'm looking forward to a smoother shifting GS tomorrow evening after work! Thanks! Joe Maniaci 96 R1100GSA 96 Dinan M3 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 23 15:58:09 1997 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 15:28:28 -0400 From: Alan & Karen Browne Organization: Alan Browne Contracting To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: R1100 things to watch Reply-To: Alan & Karen Browne "jerome N. Harris" wrote:> > The transmission is another sore point. At 5k miles, my transmission > started slipping in 5th. The symptom waS that when riding about 70 in > 5th gear and under slight acceleration, the bike would jerk like a bad > miss in the engine, which I thought it was. But the bike shop found it > was the transmission and got a new (?) one from BMW. From the day it > went in, the bike would not shift 2nd to 3rd without grinding gears. No > amount of speed changes and methods of shifting would get around this. > So the dealer suspected that BMW might have sent in a refurbished > transmission as the warranty replacement and asked for a 3rd new > transmission direct from Germany. So at 6k miles, the 3rd wnet in and > fixed the problems, but there is still an occasional unsmooth shift in > the 2 to 3 gear change. A friend with a '95 R1100RS is also on his 3rd > transmission in 100k miles, getting about 40k per transmission. Another > friend with a "96 R1100RT is also running into the 2nd to 3rd shift > problem, which may be an inherent bad tolerance problem with the > shifting forks or shaft alignment. > > I would like to hear how many other R1100 have had transmission > problems.! The transmission bites! My SOs 95 R1100RS just got it's first replacement. The orginal one was jumping out of 1st gear. The new one seems to be a bad shifter between 1st and 2nd gear. It needs more mileage on it to make sure. My 95 R1100RS is also starting to jump out of 1st gear and sometimes out of 2nd back to neutral. The last time it popped out of 1st, I was making a left turn in front of on coming traffic.=:-0 Since my 3 year warranty exp12/97 I may wait till Sept to request a replacement. That way I will end up with the latest version.(whatever that is) A dealer plug here...Bobs BMW, where we both purchased our bikes, has been great. They have a good shop and have made sure that any problems, esp. warranty claims, have been resolved promptly to both my and Karens satisfaction. There is no dollar ammount that can be affixed to the difference that a good dealer can make in resolving warranty claims. Bobs has, as far as I know, always gone to bat for the rider. Now, if the factory will just ship some good transmissions... Ride Fast, Take Chances Al Browne Given the rotten litigious nature of our society, all disclaimers apply. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 25 06:39:08 1997 From: Eric VanDenHoek To: JosephVmanNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Cc: Internet BMW Riders Subject: BMW: RE: Gear Oil additive in rear drive? Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 07:40:02 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: Eric VanDenHoek Just checking to make sure you do not add Dow Gear Guard to synthetic oils...As per Dow specs...not a good thing. Eric VanDenHoek purple '85 BMW K100RS President - Black Hills BMW Riders Club #203 IBMWR President / BMWMOA # 74038 / MSF Certified Instructor cpthoekNoSpam@NoSpamgeocities.com http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5029/ > ---------- > From: JosephVmanNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com[SMTP:JosephVmanNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 1997 9:00 PM > To: Eric VanDenHoek > Subject: Re: Gear Oil additive in rear drive? > > I'm adding it to the hypoid gearbox and rear drive oil, a 5% mixture. > > Joe > From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 25 15:24:56 1997 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:00:48 -0700 From: greg hutchinson To: Harri Vanhala Cc: "'BMW-listalle'" Subject: Re: BMW: R100 -84 Tranny hints needed (technical) Reply-To: greg hutchinson Harri Vanhala wrote: > > Hello list. > > I've run into technical problems with R100/84 tranny. It turned out > that the 3rd and 5th gear make noise: 3rd gears whines and 5th rattles. So we rode > home with 4th. It worked fine, no noise, full power accleration was OK. > > 300 meters from home we shifted on 1st and heard a noise that could make even a > rich man cry. Same with 2nd. Got home anyway on neutral (slight downhill). > > Is there any obvious reason for these symptoms? Bike has 108.000 kms and never been > pushed really hard, shifting slowly and avoiding clunks. > Harri Vanhala > hvanhalaNoSpam@NoSpamksvltd.fi I'm afraid you won't like what you find inside the box. 3rd and 5th means the main bearing and possibly the main shaft. If some small bits and shavings worked their way around, you lost the rest of the bearings also. I did over 200 miles out of the Sierras back to the Bay area with 3rd and 5th out. Lucked out and the rest were fine. Replaced the main bearing and a couple gears. Greg Hutchinson BMW MOA Club Coordinator Foster City, CA K100LT R80G/S K76 R80ST R50/2 633csi From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 29 01:35:19 1997 X-Sent-Via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ From: "Rob Lentini" To: , "IBMWR" Subject: BMW: re: K100 '84 final drive help seeking Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:40:32 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" Leone asks: ==== Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:39:51 +0000 From: leone Subject: BMW: K100 '84 final drive help seeking Hello everybody my name is Leone and i live in Italy, i own a 85.000 miles K100 that is leaking oil from the final drive, i presume that the oil seal is gone and i am going to renew it. I own the Haynes manual that has been of good help many times, but in this case is not very clear: i am scared about what i could encounter once i split the final drive. what kind of tool (if any) will i need to remove the crownweel, the bearing and the speedometer rotor ? ==== Why the rotor? What can go wrong with a slotted transmitter? ==== Is heating it enough? ==== If your drive is leaking from the pinion, have it professionally repaired. If it is leaking from the hub, the fix is easy. Remove the final drive from the swingarm after draining it of oil. You will notice two countersunk allen-head bolts holding the rear disk to the hub. "Gently" try to remove them with a ratchet drive. If they will not budge, heat the heads with a propane torch and try again. This should do it. After removal of the disk, you can then remove all of the peripheral allen head screws that hold the cases together. Mark where the case faces meet each other with a pencil to assure correct alignment when re-assembling. Then split the cases and CAREFULLY remove the hub-side case leaving the crown wheel engaged with the pinion. Be careful of the order and number of shims on the crown wheel as you pull the sides apart! Now you have the left side case in hand with the bad main hub seal right in front of you. Carefully pry it out and gently drive the new seal in place per Haynes. Then re-assemble the cases in reverse order using BMW-approved silicone seal on the surface faces (or is there a gasket? I don't remember.) Reinstall the drive, fill with oil, and put all back together again. Check your work and test ride. ==== How do i fix the speedometer rotor that is not working properly? ==== The transmitter probably only needs cleaning to remove magnetic particles it picks up from normal service intervals. Wipe the face clean every major service. ==== Is reassemly as easy as it seems? Thanks to anyone who will answer even only one of my many (and maybe tedious) questions ==== Yes, it's very straighforward. See above, and your Haynes manual. Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ (520) 790-8865 (H), (520) 295-6411 (B) '94 R 1100 RS Three Flags 97 #205 MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA BMWMOA Board Member "Elect" "LET'S RIDE MORE AND POLITIC LESS" PS: I SURE wish there were an Oilhead Haynes manual!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Aug 8 15:10:56 1997 Date: 8 Aug 1997 13:19:21 U From: "Diaz Jon" Subject: BMW: Synth minorities To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: "Diaz Jon" X-No-Archive: yes Victor wrote: >I may be in the minority here but I didn't detect any difference >(between dino and synth gear oil) at all. Me neither. I found I just needed to refine my shifting technique. Jon Diaz Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:14:34 -0700 (PDT) From: David Brick Subject: Re: BMW: Yikes! R11GS gearbox slipping On Sun, 28 Sep 1997, Don Lescoulie wrote: > I have about 24,000 miles on the clock now and I have started to get > some of that occasional, abrupt and thankfully brief power loss in > 3rd or 4th gear, I'm not sure which, between 5,500 and 6500 rpm under > heavy acceleration. >snip< > What am I looking at here? Is this the beginning of the end for this > gearbox? Paul Glaves has best explained what's going on. Although it feels as if it's electrical or injection (because of the extremely brief interruption of power) it's actually caused by a too-weak torque compensator spring in the gearbox, which allows a spring-loaded cam to "jump" over into the next engagement position. (I haven't seen a torque compensator, but Paul's description reminded me of the spring-loaded driveshafts in late-model airheads.) Some jump over on hard acceleration, as yours does, others only do so at lower rpms and smaller throttle openings (as mine did). The problem does not cure itself, but only (as the spring becomes looser over time) gets worse. Last we heard, dealers weren't allowed or encouraged to delve into the gearboxes; they were shipped back to BMWNA, who returned them to the supplier (or someone else?) for rebuilding. I suspect this means that there are no spare parts listed in the fische, and no specifications (clearances and torques) available to the mechanic. Doesn't mean the gearbox can't be fixed, only that the dealer (even if he is brave) has no ready source of parts. If the bike is under warranty, the dealer should have the transmission replaced. If the bike is not, you either pay for such a change yourself, or see if you can persuade a mechanic or dealer to open the box up. It may be that a dealer like San Jose BMW (which races an R11) may have developed some expertise in this area. Good luck with it. __________________________________________________________________________ David Brick Santa Cruz CA dbrickNoSpam@NoSpamarmory.com 96 BMW R11RSL RA MOA BOOF etc Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 23:27:11 -0400 From: William Safford <73760.3533NoSpam@NoSpamcompuserve.com> Subject: Re:BMW:R1100 Transmission > I happened to be looking at the neutral light after popping it into > 1st for a quick run up to the grocery store. When I slipped my foot off the > shifter the bike popped BACK into NEUTRAL. I shifted back into first, and > slid my foot off the shifter .... pop ... BACK into NEUTRAL I've had that happen. However, what I experienced was having this happen *once underway*. I would pull away from a light in first, then BAM!--I'd be in 2nd, or neutral. The same thing would happen from 2nd into 1st or neutral, or 2nd into 3rd. It took a new transmission to fix this problem. - --Will Safford Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 23:45:13 -0700 From: "Max C. McHatton" Subject: Re: BMW: R1100 Transmission Butch Hays wrote: > - ------------------major snip--------------------------------------- > > Just another data point ... I was convinced that my R1100RS was slipping > out of 1st at stoplights. A couple of times I'd go for it and find myself in > neutral instead. It was very intermittent. Not repeatable, until once at > home, I happened to be looking at the neutral light after popping it into > 1st for a quick run up to the grocery store. When I slipped my foot off the > shifter the bike popped BACK into NEUTRAL. I shifted back into first, and > slid my foot off the shifter .... pop ... BACK into NEUTRAL. The shifter > return spring had enough force to shift up to neutral whenever I would > slide my foot off the shift lever at the bottom of my *shift into first* motion. > At stoplights I now shift into first and hold it there until I'm in motion, > or just shift and ease my foot back up, rather than flicking it off sideways. > > FWIW ... YMMV, > Butch > > Oh, and I run Mobil 75W90 Syn GEARLuBE in the tranny. That return spring explanation makes sense. Before the switch to synthetic trany oil, I routinely held the shift lever up as I let out the clutch, when shifting from first to second. This successfuly prevented the trany from jumping out of gear, and I noticed occasional upward movement of the shifteras the clutch was let out. Perhaps it was not fully engaged in the first place. Some previouse discussions indicated that the O-ring mod to quiet the tranies may have caused this problem. Max ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 12:21:49 -0400 From: Jeff Dunkle Subject: Re: BMW: Why is my K75 clutch lever stiff? At 12:22 PM 10/9/97 +0000, you wrote: > >During the past month or so, I've noticed the clutch lever on my K75 >('93 w/15K mi.) is requiring more and more effort to operate. However, >shifting gears is as smooth as ever, and no additional pressure on the >shifter is required. The stiffness is especially noticeable compared to >my '96K11RS that I've only had for two weeks. What's going on here?. > >Bruce G. Keahey U S WEST Advanced Technologies Boulder, CO > >"Never anger a dragon, for you are crunchy and go well with Brie." Bruce, Check your cable, especailly the barrel ends. Last time my clutch started to "bind"....about two weeks later I had a cable break at the top barrel end....in the middle of a rain storm, at a Turnpike toll booth. Jeff Dunkle Monroeville, PA 412-374-1231 Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 18:58:32 -0600 From: "Rob Lentini" Subject: BMW: re: Why is my K75 clutch lever stiff? David comments: ==== Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 07:55:31 -0700 (PDT) From: David Brick Subject: Re: BMW: Why is my K75 clutch lever stiff? On Thu, 9 Oct 1997 bkeaheyNoSpam@NoSpamuswest.com wrote: > During the past month or so, I've noticed the clutch lever on my K75 > ('93 w/15K mi.) is requiring more and more effort to operate. However, > shifting gears is as smooth as ever, and no additional pressure on the > shifter is required. The stiffness is especially noticeable compared to > my '96K11RS that I've only had for two weeks. What's going on here?. I'd clean and lube the pivot of the clutch lever at the handlebar, but failing that, I'd suspect that the nylon sheath in which the clutch cable runs is either worn or dirty, thus increasing the force necessary to pull the lever. Lubrication is a no-no; you have to replace the clutch cable. Hmm. As I write, I have another thought. Is the clutch harder to pull when the motor is off? If it is easier when the bike is running, then I'd suspect the transmission input splines are needing lubrication. The vibration from a running motor would help move the clutch disk on the splines. Let us know what you find. ==== Don't forget the needle roller bearings on the clutch disengagement bellcrank mounted on the rear of the trans. These can stiffen-up too! Rob Lentini '94 R1100RS Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:50:32 -0500 From: "Mike Lukachek" Subject: BMW: Re: K75 stiff clutch When my clutch action changed with around 10-15k miles, It was the pin that holds the clutch release lever. Seems the pin was not of the correct hardness and became notched by the needle bearings. The bearings were OK so I just changed the pin and everything has been fine for over 70k miles. The dealer said it was the cable, so he changed it while the bike was in for service. Of course that wasn't it so I had to diagnose the problem myself. I'm not saying it's not the cable....could be. Also, I make sure to lubricate the clutch release lever pivot on a regular basis. Mike Lukachek Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:06:35 -0600 From: "Michael Lipke" Subject: BMW: Fw: GS Wheel Spins in Neutral. - ---------- > From: Michael Lipke > To: Mark Mollere > Subject: Re: GS Wheel Spins in Neutral. > Date: Monday, October 27, 1997 8:22 AM > > ALL bikes(and most std transmission cars, for that matter) do this, > especially if the ambient air temperature is below 50 deg. Have you ever > looked at 90 weight gear oil when it is cold? It is pretty thick. The > gears spinning in the tranny case are close together, and the oil sort of > acts like the torque converter in a automatic transission and will transfer > some of the spinning in the case to the rear wheel. > > I live in Minneapolis, and I have seen minus 45 below zero weather, and was > lucky enough to get a V8 truck started at that temp., only to have it kill > every time I tried to let out the clutch, even though it was in neutral. > Had to sit in the cab with clutch depressed untill heat from engine warmed > up the transmission case and the oil inside. > Don't know where you live, but the above is the reason why your owners > manual tells you to pull in the clutch when you start a cold engine when > the temp is below 50F. > > > ---------- > > From: Mark Mollere > > To: Internet BMW Riders > > Subject: BMW: GS Wheel Spins in Neutral. > > Date: Monday, October 27, 1997 1:45 AM > > > > > > I took my '96 R1100GSA in for regular maintenance and since then have > > noticed that the rear tire spins while the bike is in neutral. I never > > noticed this before and was told by the shop that all GS bikes do that. > > Is this true? If so, why? Hmmmm. > > > > Mark Mollere, > > Rota, Spain Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:28:50 -0500 From: russell.miller-jrNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Russell E Miller-Jr) Subject: Re: BMW: f650 luggage questions and tranny trouble update My 1997 F650ST also has problems going into first on the down shift. I thought some of the problem was due to the cluth lever free play being too much. But, the problem continues. So, my guess is this is a "feature" which is shared by more than one F650. E.G. a tranny defect! Russ Miller 1997 R1200C 1997 F650St 1996 R1100RTL Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 05:02:50 -0600 From: huelsNoSpam@NoSpamnavix.net (William Huelsdonk) Subject: Re: BMW: Clutch and Plates >O.K the question has been asked about the longjevity of the motor >in the K"s, so what about Clutch plates, the last time I had the K in for a >service, I was told the clutch plate will have to be replaced "shortly", >since > > snip > >So what is the general experience on the long rangers with clutch wear. > > The clutch on my 90 K100LT held up for 225,000 miles. Bill Huelsdonk K-Whiner # 200 Lincoln, NE Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:45:23 -0500 From: LONIGRO Subject: BMW: RE: /2 tranny Roger, Thanks for the info, and good luck with the rebuild/swap! Keep us posted on the Guzzi resto. I just finished repainting the /2, just in time too. It snowed the next day here in NY! I used an acrylic enamel through a detail gun. The finish came out great. All I need now is to find someone to stripe the sheetmetal. Know of anyone in the Westchester County NY area? Regards, Anthony Lonigro,PE VBMWMO 5651 der schlagen zwei > -----Original Message----- > From: rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro.sps.mot.com [SMTP:rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro.sps.mot.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 10:32 AM > To: LONIGRONoSpam@NoSpamderector.com > Subject: RE: /2 tranny > > Hi Anthony, > > I'll pass along what I get. My bike too, is the cream color. I think > BMW calls it > dover white for some strange reason. Love that color, especially the > fact that the > frame and fork match the tank and fenders. A really nice look. I'm > restoring and > old Guzzi that will be done very similarly (monochrome/cream), though > with red-ish > pinstripes and decals. So far, I've only powdercoated the > frame/swingarm/triples etc. > > Anyway, here's the replies I've rx'd so far. > > enjoy, and good luck > regards > roger > > > ----- Begin Included Message ----- > > From kariNoSpam@NoSpamcalbmwtriumph.com Wed Dec 3 01:19:45 1997 > >Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com by spsem01.sps.mot.com > (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) > id AA18300 for rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro.sps.mot.com; Wed, 3 Dec 97 00:16:58 > MST > X-Sender: calbmw-kariNoSpam@NoSpampplus.shell11.ba.best.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:22:11 -0800 > To: rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro (Roger Albert) > From: kariNoSpam@NoSpamcalbmwtriumph.com (Kari Prager) > Subject: Re: BMW: /2 tranny > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Content-Length: 1196 > > Roger, it is possible that one of the flat springs that holds the > "selector" in place against the sector gears has broken, (this is not > the > same as the spring that holds the shift lever in position) or the > selector > cam plate has come loose from its gear. These are relatively easy to > fix > (replace or reweld). > > Ir shouldn;t be hard to find someone local to help you take it apart > or buy > the tools from Ed Korn and do it yourself. > > K > > Regards, > Kari > > Next shop ride: December 7th - a brunch ride, destination dependent on > weather. > [Kari Prager, California BMW Triumph, 2490 Old Middlefield Way, > Mountain > View, CA 94043 650.966.1183/966 8340 FAX, E-mail to > , use for shop > business, > for new and used bike info. Our website is > at > www.calbmwtriumph.com] > We are now an authorized RaceTech center for suspension work. > Check our website for new hours, Service now open Mondays. > > > > > > > > ----- End Included Message ----- > > > ----- Begin Included Message ----- > > From vanderheidenNoSpam@NoSpamCARD.AZR.NL Wed Dec 3 05:45:33 1997 > >Received: from azr.nl (mail.azr.nl) by spsem01.sps.mot.com > (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) > id AA00870 for rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro.sps.mot.com; Wed, 3 Dec 97 04:46:33 > MST > From: "C.W. van der Heiden" <6566NoSpam@NoSpamfs1-cdai.azr.nl> > Organization: University Hospital Rotterdam - AZR > To: rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro (Roger Albert), ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com > Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:39:10 +0100 > Subject: Re: BMW: /2 tranny > Reply-To: vanderheidenNoSpam@NoSpamCARD.AZR.NL > Priority: normal > X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 1252 > > > hitting nothing. Any idea of what type of internal failure its > likely to > > be? Are these generally economically repairable, or is it more like > a /5 > > thru /7 or slightly newer trans wherein you just swap in a new one. > I'm > > certainly able to get it out of the bike, and _maybe_ do some > disassembly > > to cut costs. Any ideas or comments on what I might expect to see? > > > > thanks > > regards > > roger > > Hi Roger, > > Apart from all kind of horrors, it's likely to be a broken detend > spring, the one that positions the gear selector camplate. > > Replacing the whole tranny is possible, but another second hand > tranny could have all kind of trouble. rebuilding your own tranny > is not difficult, but removing the output flange is. You need > some sturdy special tools for that. > > I have once written a lengthy article about these beasts. It is > on the IBMWR webpage, among the R tech articles. This article > is not very well written but adresses most points. > > Good luck, Kees > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Kees van der Heiden Acad. Hospital Rotterdam The Netherlands > > heidenNoSpam@NoSpamtca.fgg.eur.nl 6566NoSpam@NoSpamcard.azr.nl > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ----- End Included Message ----- > > > ----- Begin Included Message ----- > > From proseNoSpam@NoSpamdraper.com Wed Dec 3 06:34:51 1997 > From: proseNoSpam@NoSpamdraper.com > >Received: from ns (ns.draper.com) by spsem01.sps.mot.com > (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) > id AA03246 for rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro.sps.mot.com; Wed, 3 Dec 97 05:33:04 > MST > Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 07:29:00 -0500 (EST) > Subject: Re: BMW: /2 tranny > To: rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro > X-Ccgate-Env: rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro.sps.mot.com > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 4055 > > > Text item: Body.822 > Roger, > > I wouldn't recommend taking the tranny apart if you don't have > the tools or > the expertise. Swapping a "new" one in is going to be almost as hard > as fixing > the one you got. Take it out and bring it to someone you can trust. > Internally > it really isn't all that different from a /5 tranny, but because the > case is > different, may require different tools. I suggest sending it to Vech. > He's not > that far from you and has the tools and expertise you need. > > Cheers, Phil Rose > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________ > > Hi all, > > So, as I'm leaving a local haunt Sunday eve, my previously fine > performing > R60/2 wouldn't let me leave with the rest of the guys. Seems I'm > stuck in > neutral. Light indicates neutral and the bike rolls fine, so nothing > seems > horribly bound up. Just won't go into gear, either up or down. Both > up > and down give resistance from the spring, but otherwise feel like > they're > hitting nothing. Any idea of what type of internal failure its likely > to > be? Are these generally economically repairable, or is it more like a > /5 > thru /7 or slightly newer trans wherein you just swap in a new one. > I'm > certainly able to get it out of the bike, and _maybe_ do some > disassembly > to cut costs. Any ideas or comments on what I might expect to see? > > thanks > regards > roger > > p.s. I'm unsub'd till I get another new work project better off the > ground, so private replies would be really helpful. Thanks. > > =================================================== > Roger Albert (go Illini!) Motorola. Austin, Texas > rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro.sps.mot.com Wireless/DSP Div. 56xxx Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:03:47 -0500 From: Bradley_BarrusNoSpam@NoSpambedison.com (Bradley Barrus) Subject: Re: BMW: R75/5 Clutch I had the clutch replaced including the friction disc, diaphragm spring and the rear main oil seal (as preventive maintenance). The pressure plate and flywheel pressure plate showed some shined spots after sand blasting. I don't know if they'd go the distance of the new friction disc and had them along with the rear main oil seal replaced as preventive/preemptive maintenance just to be sure (when in doubt, throw it out!). The clutch splines were cleaned and lubed. The BMW dealer and I were satisfied that a first rate servicing was rendered. When the job was done, I immediately brought the bike to the highway, gave it full throttle in top gear AND THE CLUTCH SLIPPED AT ABOUT 5000 RPM(!) as evidenced by the engine surging to 5500 RPM without a corresponding road speed increase. I backed off the throttle and felt the clutch resume engagement as the revs decreased without corresponding road speed decrease. Back to the BMW dealership to complain about the clutch slippage (actually worse slippage as compared to the old clutch). I told the mechanic to increase the amount of free play on the clutch actuating rod using the adjusting bolt at the transmission rear then I verified there was no pressure on the rod with the clutch engaged. I also turned the cable adjuster at the clutch lever to give the lever PLENTY of free play. The store owner advised that the new clutch needed a certain amount of operating time to realize its full performance potential and he also said it was not unprecedented for R100 clutches to slip when new(?). I find this hard to believe. I was skeptical of his statements but agreed to allow for a couple hundred miles of run-in time to allow the new clutch to bed in before I returned. Happily, by the time I got home after 80 miles on the slab, the clutch no longer slipped. I can wind it to at least 6000 RPM in top gear with no noticeable clutch slippage (I also spend less time watching the tach at 6000 RPM in top gear). I suspect the additional free play adjustments and a little run-in time (very little) helped bed in the clutch. But I also think that the mechanic allowed too little free play at the adjusting rod such that the clutch was not fully engaged even with sufficient free play at the hand lever. Any thoughts on this? P.S. I'm careful not to spend too much time standing in bottom gear with the clutch disengaged so as to minimize clutch dragging/overheating. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: BMW: R75/5 Clutch Author: Paul or Voni Glaves at Internet Date: 11/4/97 5:45 PM >Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:08:34 -0500 >From: Bradley_BarrusNoSpam@NoSpambedison.com (Bradley Barrus) >Subject: BMW: R75/5 Clutch > > During highspeed acceleration in top gear, my clutch slips. When > the engine revs reach the peak torque range of about 5000RPM, the > revs will suddenly jump to 5500RPM without a corresponding increase > in road speed. There is sufficient free play at the clutch lever. > The engine has approx 50K miles and the bike is a 1973 LWB model. > Should I consider rear main seal replacement when the clutch is > done? Is there any hope for the old clutch (it does not otherwise > slip). Once you have the transmission removed carefully examine the insude of the bellhousing and the front of the transmission case. There may be tell tale signs of wetness from either the engine rear main seal leaking and/or the transmission input shaft front seal leaking - contaminating the clutch. If so the seal(s) should be replaced. Also examine the pressure plate and flywheel friction surfaces for discoloration, or wear. Small blackened spots can be polished with fine emory cloth. Ridges or grooves or severe discoloration would indicate these parts should be replaced. Examine the clutch disk for oil fouling. If it is oil fouled I recommend replacement - but if in otherwise nearly new condition the oil contamination may be removed with repeated applications of brake system cleaner. Examine the tips of the spring fingers and if they are blackened or discolored you should replace the spring. Good luck. Paul Glaves Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 00:37:49 -0500 From: Don Eilenberger Subject: BMW: K_tech/Clutch >Subject: Ktech/clutch >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) >X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) > >Hi Folks.....well I have been taking advice ( most welcomed ) and have now >ordered the rear main seal, "O" ring and new nut to go along with "moly" >spline lube, extra long 8mm screws with heads cut off and tranny seal..... I >got a feeling this next question is gonna cost me BIG BUCKS !!! But here >goes, " is it normal to have about 1/4 " end play in engine output shaft when >the clutch basket ( housing ) is removed ? " This one scares me....Thanks >ahead of time......... >Bill Kenney >88K100RS Bill - I'm sure Paul Glaves (who has prolly done this a LOT more times than I have) will follow up on this.. BUTT - the answer - I *think* is yes. The clutch basket and nut and spacer and O ring preload the bearing behind it.. which is not the bearing on the end of the crankshaft - but the one on the bottom counter-rotating shaft. I'm not certain exactly how much endplay there should be - but some is gonna be evident since when you reinstall the nut - you first torque it to 103 ft/lbs, then back it off and retorque it to 66-84 ft/lbs.. The question is - was there any endplay before removing the nut/basket? AND - is there any after reinstalling it and retorquing it? If you look at the layout of the lower shaft - it runs through all the transfer gear and shock absorbing stuff - and ends in a needle bearing. I suspect it's position is determined by the rear bearing and the torquing of the basket assembly to the bearing. On my K - when I did this job - I was pleased to find that the usual K lower shaft rattle (very common) was greatly diminished after the job - I'm assuming some of the shaft components which wear were put back into normal position by the action of the two stage torque procedure. Paul G - any comments? BTDT? Best, HTH.. ======================================= Don Eilenberger Spring Lk Hts, NJ, USA deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com ======================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:39:01 -0500 From: "Shamieh, Greg" Subject: BMW: new airhead clutch slippage i have been through a few clutches in my time, and it has been my experience that every one of them took some bedding-in before they would transmit maximum power. both my replacement r100 engine in my r90s and the overhaul of my r75/5 engine, which included a new clutch and a overbore to 900, slipped at max torque for the first several thousand miles. the situation, IMHO, is analogous to replacing ones disk brake pads --- until the friction surfaces have a chance to mate --- microgroove to microgroove --- they are not capable of producing maximum friction. i'll pass on the advise of the guy that built my last engine -- go easy on your clutch i.e. don't deliberately stay up in that slippage zone for a while --- if you feel it letting go, back out of the throttle. the situation will likely improve over time. as always YMMV g. ***** > greg shamieh boof # 93 > gregsNoSpam@NoSpamparadigms.com Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:09:58 -0700 From: "Tom Deaver" Subject: BMW: Re: Re: BMW/jump starting GS11/Whatever happened to pushing?? Ian, et al, Used to have /2 bikes w/ /5 engines for Stieb hack work. Usually had to pull start a particular rig to get it started. Loosened the nut holding the output flange to the output shaft. 'Course had to do it in Feb.. (cold) in the AZ desert between Flagstaff and UT line. Seems the torque from the wheel to tranny was too much for it. We fixed it on side of road. Yea, we really did. VBG Tom D. High in the Rockies - -----Original Message----- From: Ian Schmeisser To: Thomas Hundt ; bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Cc: bmwbrianNoSpam@NoSpamvoicenet.com Date: Saturday, January 17, 1998 1:26 PM Subject: BMW: Re: BMW/jump starting GS11/Whatever happened to pushing?? > >According to mechanics I have spoken to, you should bump-start BMWs as a >last resort. As I understand it, the driveline is not designed to take >sharp, jerky torque loads in the reverse direction of forward motion. > >I often wonder if bump-starting caused/exacerbated a problem I had with my >R100 G/SPD, where the bolt that holds the pinion gear into the rear drive >loosened over the course of 50K miles and ruined the very expensive gearset. > >Ian > From: "Stan Walker" To: "Wayne Dowers" , Cc: "Hans Bos" Subject: Re: BMW: BMW Shifting (#$%NoSpam@NoSpam!) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:57:20 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: "Stan Walker" X-No-Archive: yes X-Bmw-List: Majordomo 1.94.3 X-Web-Page: http://www.ibmwr.org/ X-Copyright: (c) IBMWR and the original author(s). That's funny, my R1100RT goes into 1st gear every time! No fuss. No hassle. Of course I do it the same way, the way that works, the right way, each and every time! I know my memory of the good old days is fading, but I seem to recall the first BMW I ever rode (R60 back in the 60's) required the exact same procedure to get into 1st gear from neutral at a stop. Maybe some of the older Airhead owners, no that's not right, maybe some of the owners of older Airheads could confirm this. Anyway, here is what works for me, and will for you too. 1. Pull in clutch lever. 2. Press gently down on gear shift. 3. Release clutch lever into "slippage" zone. 4. Feel 1st gear engage (gearshift lever drops a bit lower). 5. Pull clutch lever back to bars. 6. Release pressure on gearshift being careful to prevent in from springing upward so forcefully that it kicks it back into neutral. (Raise your toe, don't slide it off sideways)! 7. Smile, it's just that easy. It is even easier to end up in 1st if you do your downshifting before the bike comes to a complete stop at a light. This has the added advantage that, should some cage decide to try and occupy the space your bike is in, you can exit in a hurry. You did leave yourself a path to safety didn't you? Please say yes. I know they teach that at MSF. You did take an MSF course didn't you? Well, you can't take that path if your in neutral! I have one last comment. The BMW bike and tranny are what they are. They have a dry clutch (F650 excluded). Either you must adapt to it, or you must switch brands. Off of my soap box for a little while. Stan Walker, Longmont, CO R1100RTL "ours" F650 "hers" "think less, lean more" -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Dowers To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Cc: Hans Bos Date: Monday, March 23, 1998 9:56 PM Subject: Re: BMW: BMW Shifting (#$%NoSpam@NoSpam!) > >Don wrote: > >> The reason it may not go into gear after sitting in neutral is the >> BMW clutch completely disengages - letting the gears in the gearbox >> spin-down (stop turning) - unlike Honda/whatever - where the WET >> clutch always has some power going into the gearbox and the input >> shaft keeps spinning. It's not a quirk - it's how the damn thing >> is designed, and properly ridden - it isn't a problem. >> >And O-rings on the Challenger were designed one way that worked great until >it got cold one morning. > >Given BMW's proud car heritage I am now surprised that they did not design >this characteristic into the 3, 5 and 7 series cars. I can just imagine >BMW trying to explain away why their $50,000 car will only shift into first >gear (easily) half the time and then further try to explain to the customer >that it is the owner's fault and that they are not using the car correctly, >and as a matter of fact they are not even worthy of such a fine piece of >machinery "give me back these keys you feeble American- the Mercedes dealer >is down the street!" > >FWIW - my 850 shifts pretty good, but I wish it went into first on the >first try every time because it may not be designed to do so but it should >be. > >Wayne Dowers >96 R850R Panzer Green Metallic Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:05:02 -0600 From: "Chuck (Jack) Hawley" Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) To: Don Eilenberger Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com, Hans Bos Subject: Re: BMW: BMW Shifting (#$%NoSpam@NoSpam!) Sender: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: "Chuck (Jack) Hawley" X-No-Archive: yes X-Bmw-List: Majordomo 1.94.3 X-Web-Page: http://www.ibmwr.org/ X-Copyright: (c) IBMWR and the original author(s). Don Eilenberger wrote: > Hans from the hills of the left coast sez: > > >Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:46:00 -0800 > >From: Hans Bos > >Subject: BMW: BMW Shifting (#$%NoSpam@NoSpam!) > > > >Want to add my .02 worth to the perennial shift thread. Have the > >"upshift to neutral" and "not really in first" problems too. I changed > >to synthetic gear fluid, and it hasn't gotten any better (it *seems* > >worse actually, but that may be because it gets more irritating as you > >have the bike longer). I think this is a very annoying quirk of BMWs, > >which is dangerous, especially in hilly city driving, and could actually > >make me switch to a different brand of bike (but what?), unless I get > >used to it eventually. I cannot believe how frequently presidents > >complain about this and how even the newest bikes still have it. > > > >- --Hans Bos (San Francisco, CA, '81 R65) > > OK - a few comments... > > WHY are you shifting into neutral?? If for stoplights - this is NOT > considered a safe thing to do - you want to be able to dump the clutch > and move forwards poste-haste when you hear the squeel of brakes headed > at your butt from the inattentive driver (BTDT..). With the design of > the BMW clutch - the only possible 'additional' wear point would be > the clutch-rod bearing - which is replaceable without transmission > removal - and I've rarely heard of anyone needing to replace one. You'll > wear the cable twice as fast, since they tend to break at the pivot > points due to flexure while being pulled in/out.. > > When you come to a light, as you're braking, put it in 1st gear and > then kust hold the clutch IN. > > When the light changes, release clutch and and reverse process.. > > If you have any problems finding first gear after being in neutral.. > just release the clutch about 1/4 of the way to spin the gearset up > and then as you pull it back in, push the lever down. > > The reason it may not go into gear after sitting in neutral is the > BMW clutch completely disengages - letting the gears in the gearbox > spin-down (stop turning) - unlike Honda/whatever - where the WET > clutch always has some power going into the gearbox and the input > shaft keeps spinning. It's not a quirk - it's how the damn thing > is designed, and properly ridden - it isn't a problem. > > Buncha' kids.... never owned a British bike... jeeze.. and I'm > just guessing - but bet'cha grew up with syncromesh first gear > on your cars?? I think that this is just the nature of the design of the way this transmission works. It's not a production problem. Also, I don't think it is correct to call this a syncromesh problem, all the gears are all meshed all the time. You can slap the transmission into first at any road speed if you can stand the noi$e...clutch or no clutch by letting up on the gas. There will be no grinding of the gears. The problem is getting the four dogs into the four holes in the gear wheel to engage that desired gear combo to the shaft. If you lightly slip the clutch, then the dogs spin over the holes and find an engagement while keeping pressure on the shift lever. I think most find it second nature after riding a BMW for 30 years or so.I wouldn't recommend sitting in first gear at a busy intersection...although it seems that when the clutch cable breaks and the bike jumps forward, the right hand and foot on the brakes seems to impulsively keep you from shooting out into the traffic...but it's scary. I always go into neutral, but I do shift into first, if while watching the rear, I notice someone coming up who seems too fast. I think that neutral is the best place to be when considering the clutch, etc., but I can see how paranoia might make you think otherwise. My wife worries a lot about rear end collisions even though they make up only 4% of all bike accidents. My advice is just to learn how to slip it into first from neutral and it will become a non problem. Jack -- Charles (Jack) Hawley Chuck....Ham Radio KE9UW AKA "Jack" BMW Motorcycles, MOA #224 K100RS Wife rides...Viki, MOA #18120 K100RS President IBMWR c-hawleyNoSpam@NoSpamuiuc.edu Sr. Research Engineer Emeritus University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign From: proseNoSpam@NoSpamdraper.com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: BMW: /6 Kickers To: tbcNoSpam@NoSpamnationwide.net, mdoberleNoSpam@NoSpamisdnnt01.icf.tel.gte.com Cc: bbonarNoSpam@NoSpamyahoo.com, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com X-Ccgate-Env: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sender: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: proseNoSpam@NoSpamdraper.com X-No-Archive: yes X-Bmw-List: Majordomo 1.94.3 X-Web-Page: http://www.ibmwr.org/ X-Copyright: (c) IBMWR and the original author(s). Fellow Presidents, The only five speeds that had a kicker was for the 1974 model year. Kickstarters were discontinued for the 1975 year. The kickstarter remained an option for any and all bikes, albeit a very expensive one. It was recommended for bikes started infrequently or in very cold climes. In 1978 a small # of R100RS's came into the country that had both 40mm headers and kickers. These were either a. Belgium Police bikes, or b. Australian models, I've heard both. The kicker made a reappearance on the R80G/S. Cheers, Phactory Phil aka Phil Rose proseNoSpam@NoSpamdraper.com _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: BMW: RE: Early R75/6 - Corollary question.. From: tbcNoSpam@NoSpamnationwide.net at ._datafork Date: 4/28/98 5:58 PM On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Mike Oberle wrote: > > The guy trying to sell this machine to me says it is a 4 speed with kick-start. He claims the 5 speeds didn't have a kick. > > True / False ? > > I am going to ride it tonight and determine the number of speeds. What should the shift pattern be ? And what is the correct numer of speeds for a /5 or /6 ? Mike, All /5's were four speeds. All /6's were five speeds. /6's had kick starters for the first couple of years, but my '76 did not have one. Euro models seemed to have them after USA models did not. Shift patterns are normal with one down and three or four up. Geoff Adams, Arlington, TX tbcNoSpam@NoSpamdfw.net TBC NTCOF NTS MOA22753 IBMWR BMWDFW LSBMWR Seeking another K100RS - I think I've found one. Beware of the dogma. Home is where you hang your NoSpam@NoSpam