From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu May 29 21:19:44 1997 Date: Thu, 29 May 97 12:26:40 UT From: "errol amy" To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: RE: Nm vs Ft Pounds Reply-To: "errol amy" Bob... To convert Nm to inch lbs 1 Nm = 8.8507 inch lbs. 1 Nm = 0.73758 ft lbs budamy ---------- From: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com on behalf of Bob Lawes Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 1997 2:27 PM To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Nm vs Ft Pounds In reading over the pitiful Owner's Manual I have found a very little bit of information about my motorcycle. However, I did find a very few torque values in Nm. Can anyone convert the following to Ft. Pounds of Torque? 100 Nm 80 Nm 50 Nm 12 Nm TIA Bob Lawes - Whidbey Island - F650 - IBMWR - Golden Idiot - BOOF #9 AMA, RA, MOA, WSBMWR, BMW Club of Northern California From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jun 27 23:19:08 1997 From: "ynotfix" To: "bmwmc" Subject: BMW: torque wrenches Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 20:04:15 -0700 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "ynotfix" david: there is only a difference of operation between the two types of torque wrenches, they both will give the same results. the swinging bar type is a less expensive tool and requires that you observe the reading as you tighten the fastener. this could be a possible difficulty if the wrench isn't clearly visible. that is why the "click" type of wrench was developed. it allows you to tighten the hardware while watching what you are doing instead of watching the tool. the mechanism inside that is required makes this type a much more costly tool. the swing type can be had for under $20.00 whereas the click type will set you back upwards of $35.00 or more. i have both types and because of the convenience of the clicker i reach for it most of the time. hope this will give you the info you need. c-ya(all), ynotfixNoSpam@NoSpamwgn.net '96 K1100RS, '96 Triumph Trident, '87 Honda XLV750R, '68, '73, '74, '78 Triumph 650's, '69 Honda XL500R, '84 Honda TLR200, '87 K100RS, '80 Yamaha XS650 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 01:53:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Curry Subject: BMW: Interesting info on "Torquing Fasteners" & keeping joints together That favorite topic. ;):) In an article I just read on high strength fastener's use in industrial facilities there was some interesting information. (Power Engineering August 1997) When tightening bolted joints, using hydraulic wrenches provides a consistent torque but the resultant bolt tension has a 30-40 PERCENT ERROR RATE. And tension is what holds the joint together. :(:( So don't sweat the torque wrench accuracy. There are other factors that dominate the tightening errors that overwhelm, the torque wrench potential error. A common carbon steel stud material, A193-B7 material has a yield strength of about 100,000 psi. 316 stainless, which is fairly common, has a yield strength of about 40,000 psi. About 40% of a common carbon steel fastener!!! Stainless 422 is about 120,000 pounds. So, if you are installing "trick" stainless fasteners, either use them only on non-critical locations, or make sure they are type 422 stainless. (300 series stainless steels are rather "non-magnetic" unless they have been work hardened and then they become slightly magnetic. 400 series stainless steels are fairly magnetic to begin with. So a magnet can provide some info on what type SS the fastener likely is.) Longer bolts have more "elasticity" which maintains clamping forces when there is joint instability such as caused by large temperature changes. You can improve the poor joint's/fastener's elasticity by using spacers to allow the use of a longer bolt or IMO a better way is to use "Belleville" or disc washers to "store energy". This is one of the reasons that long bolts are used to hold a BMW flywheel onto the crank, and the connecting rod halves together. Both are severe service with large temperature changes, and a need for REAL HIGH RELIABILITY!! Now for more OBMWC. Remember the K bike water pumps originally had a bolt on a short stud, or threaded area on the water pump shaft. And it was replaced with a bolt threaded into the water pump shaft. This joint went from a low elasticity joint in a high cyclic temperature change (the nut and stud) environment, to a high elasticity joint in that same cyclic temperature change environment. Yes, engineering does work, and no the engineers do not get it right the first time, all the time. Just most of the time. And that is good, or the wheels would fall off with regularity. :(:( Cylinder head hold down studs/bolts can have similar problems. Long is better than short and I have seen a water cooled Honda dirt bike engine that had real cylinder head gasket sealing problems and it had real short, like maybe ~1/2" long studs. While it could be reworked, it would probably come back again. :(:( +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | "Without data, you're just another opinion." | | -Jim Clarke (Manager, engine controls Ford Motor Co.) | | | | | | Brian Curry, 1990 Blue K75RTs both coasts, Chester Springs, PA | | The 9.25 cents a minute guy, USA SoD #23 | | | | KGN- Improving Lives Around The World | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From William Schaefer Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 12:58:03 -0700 (PDT) From: William Schaefer Subject: Re: BMW: Interesting info on "Torquing Fasteners" & keeping joints together A lot of good information here. Sound principles. Let me add a few brushstrokes to the picture. Carbon Steel is not all one thing. The common fastener grades are 2, 5, and 8 with yield strengths of about 40,000, 70,000 and 100,000 psi. All are carbon steels with the same spring rate (Young's Modulus). So, the three above fasteners, as they are tightened, will stretch exactly alike up to 40,000 psi. With further tightening the Grade 2 will continue stretching without increase in torque and without increase in clamp load. The Grades 5 and 8 will need more torque to get more turns on the nut and higher clamp loads. Similarly, at 70,000 psi the Grade 5 will stop showing elastic behavior (increase in torque with increase in turn of the nut) and the Grade 8 bolt will continue to get higher clamping with higher torques until it hits its yield strength at about 100,000 psi. Above their yield strengths, the fasteners go into a stretched condition. They will not return to their initial lengths upon disassembly. In small doses this is no big deal. In fact one of the best torquing techniques uses torque wrenches with a computer feedback program which shuts off the torque when it senses turn of the nut without attending increase in torque. The bolts are at their yield strengths and have just "overstretched" a small bit. Bolt thread lubrication (and don't forget under the nut or under the bolt head) is required for this to work. A lot of our BMW cap srews go into tapped aluminum. The weakest link will be the aluminum threads. Being a novice at BMW service, I want to follow the torque tables within reason. The recommended torque may well have to do with the threaded hole and not the primary fastener. I'm onto the third page. To all those still awake, let me apologize for boring you. It's really hard to make this stuff interesting. Bill Schaefer '87 K-75 Up and running after being exorcized of electrical gremlins. Check those connectors, even the fuse box connections. Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:11:56 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamlists.ibmwr.org From: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu (jim roche) Subject: BMW: /5 Pan Bolts Leak? Tap 2 American 1/4 Inch Sender: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu (jim roche) X-No-Archive: yes X-Bmw-List: Majordomo 1.94.3 X-Web-Page: http://www.ibmwr.org/ X-Copyright: (c) IBMWR and the original author(s). > >Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:34:14 -0400 >From: Ron Rohner >Subject: BMW: Oil leak from oil pan bolts/5 > >Gentlemen, >Several months ago I helicoiled stripped threads from the oil >pan. It went very well. Now, however, I am getting some drips >from some of the bolts as the oil is seeping out. Anybody know >of a fix for this? Since the bike has had a recent mishap, now >is the time to fix everything. Thanks in advance. Ron Rohner, >Quakertown, Pa. Dear Ron, sure you can fix it with a helicoil but the way to do it quick and have zero seep leaks is to simply tap the hole for a American 1/4 inch fine or course thread. Easy and no need to even remove the pan if your tap is the long kind. best, Jim(Dr.Curve)Roche jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu high performance old twins http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~jroche/index.html Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 05:53:44 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: p_vglavesNoSpam@NoSpammail.cjnetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 To: DeLuca.mailNoSpam@NoSpamworldnet.att.net From: Paul or Voni Glaves Subject: BMW: Exhaust Nut Removal Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sender: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Paul or Voni Glaves X-No-Archive: yes X-Bmw-List: Majordomo 1.94.3 X-Web-Page: http://www.ibmwr.org/ X-Copyright: (c) IBMWR and the original author(s). Joe, Stop what you are doing - and cut/split the nut off. The aluminum nut has siezed on a portion of the aluminum head Turning the nut us just stripping the threads off the head. Cut almost through the nut perpendicular to the threads - using a small Dremel tool with cut-off wheel or equivilent. Don't get as deep as the threads. Then use a hammer and small, sharp chisel to split the nut. A second cut 180 degrees opposite where you wish it to split aids in the bending/spliting process. Once the nut splits it will come off easily. If you are lucky and if you stopped turning soon enough - you will have enough threads left on the head to clean them up with a small file and refit a new nut. If not - you will have to have the exhaust spigot rethreaded or replace the head. Not a cheap or pretty picture. Good luck! Paul Glaves >Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:43:42 -0500 >From: "Joseph DeLuca" >Subject: BMW: R Bike Exhaust Nut Stripping > >Well, here's a problem that I'm sure many have experienced, but it's new to >me and I need some advice. I was putting new exhaust headers on my 1972 >R60/5 today, so I removed the right exhaust nut with a cast aluminum >exhaust nut wrench and a rubber hammer -- no problem. Heated the nut first >with a torch and it came off easily. This is great, right? A piece of >cake! Sure it was, until I got to the other side. $#%^&&*#NoSpam@NoSpam!!! > >I used the same procedure on the left side, heated the nut, etc. but guess >what? That sucker is on tighter than a bull's ass in fly time! Must have >been cross threaded way back when. (The pipes look original, though. Is >it conceivable that such a thing could happen at The Factory?) Anyway, I'm >stuck about halfway off...the threads are stripping badly and I'm wondering >what to do next. I've broken two teeth off my wrench and I'm leaving it >alone for now. > >The left header pipe loosened up and slipped right out, so I've >accomplished the immediate objective. I'm thinking of installing the new >pipe, tightening up the half stripped nut, and forgetting about it. Or I >could continue trying to force the nut off. Counter clockwise...correct? >However, based on past experiences with stripped nuts, I think this is a >bad idea. Any suggestions on how to proceed will be greatly appreciated. >How do you get that exhaust nut off without screwing up the head, anyway? > >Joe DeLuca >Dayton OH