From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri May 23 22:02:51 1997 To: hazbro1NoSpam@NoSpamgwi.net From: "Terence R. Evans, M.D." Subject: BMW: Re: Question for K1100LT Cc: Terry Evans , bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com, Terry Evans , proddyNoSpam@NoSpamworldnet.att.net, jimshawNoSpam@NoSpammail.multiverse.com Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 01:41:13 +0000 Reply-To: "Terence R. Evans, M.D." At 11:29 PM 5/23/97 +0000, Tom Hazzard wrote: >... > >Need suggestions on stiffening up front end of 94 K1100LT. Tom, It would help describing your syptoms for why you feel it needs 'stiffening up'. Many LT's front end problems are cured by the rear end, ie. a new, better shock. First let's make your front better: I would add Progressive (or Luftmeister, White Power etc) front springs. Increase fork oil to 10 weight. I've dabbled back and forth with 7.5 and 10 but since you and Patty go two-up often, go with 10 wieght. My former K-Guru at BMW of Orlando advocated putting an additional 5cc/fork leg. Let's see, you have a built-in fork brace... maybe now at this mileage is time to inspect all front end components for wear? Although BMW recommends REPLACEMENT of steering head and wheel bearings at 25,000miles - seems that List consensus is make sure they are properly greased. Also the swing arm bearings. - make sure your steering head bearings are properly adjusted, you have no warpage to wheel or disks rotors. - tire pressure? Very controversial - I run 38 lbs (sometimes 40) up front - whenever I start getting any front end symtoms I check air pressure and invariably it's low. Kari Prager recommended to overcome 'cupping' handling symptoms of an otherwise good front tire to add more air to it. Been doing that since '95. Rear End: - you still running your original BMW shock? What you got, maybe 50K miles by now? even if this is your second shock, 50K means it may be shot as back to the two-up frequency and pulling a trailer. - Ohlins is probably number 1, then Koni, then Fox, then White Bros, then White Power then Progressive which is what I've been running for now, 45K miles and no real sign of it deteriorating. I guess all the above are rebuildable if you have any of them - most have Web pages or 1-800 numbahs to answer any questions you have. Getting a better rear shock was the single biggest handling improvement I've made short of attending C.L.A.S.S or Kieth Code No matter what, a K-LT with Top box will never handle as nicely in the corners as K-RSs and Oilheads and Airheads as I know you and Patty are scraping pegs and elbows ;-) Hope this helps, Take care __________T_E_R_R_Y_____M_i_a_m_i____ if AT&T bounces you, forward to alt. add.: tevansmdNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri May 23 23:03:07 1997 From: MMCornettNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:48:40 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Question for K1100LT Reply-To: MMCornettNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com In a message dated 97-05-23 20:58:11 EDT, Tom Hazzard writes: << Need suggestions on stiffening up front end of 94 K1100LT. Thanks >> Down East Tom, Three words: White Power Springs You won't believe how much the handling improves. Downtown Mike From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu May 29 12:43:07 1997 Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:47:48 -0800 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: tdcNoSpam@NoSpamwell.com (Tom Childers) Subject: Re: BMW: Rear shocks for airhead Reply-To: tdcNoSpam@NoSpamwell.com (Tom Childers) Phil Marx asks: >I'm looking for any comments/criticism/experience with the Progressive rear >shocks with heavy duty springs for use on an '81 R100CS. These would be >used with the Progressive front fork springs. I hear lots of opinions >about the Koni's and Bilstein won't sell theirs in this country for some >reason, but little about the Progressives. My riding is usually one-up >with bags and tent, etc and I weigh about 200 lbs. Stability and handling >is more important than ride comfort. I weigh about the same, and find the Progressive shocks aren't as stiff as the Konis. The Progressives work okay, and are fine for riding 2-up or 1-up with camping gear. However, 2-up with camping gear seems to be too much for them. I also like the damping on the Koni shocks a little better. -tdc Tom Childers 1989 K100RS, 78,000 mi. tchilderNoSpam@NoSpamsybase.com, tdcNoSpam@NoSpamwell.com 1979 R100S, 91,000... Corte Madera, California 1979 528i, 190,000... From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 11 00:17:38 1997 Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 21:12:08 -0700 From: Mark Gensman Organization: Business Resource Group, Inc. To: Dan Rubinger Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Re: Rear shocks for airhead Reply-To: Mark Gensman Dan Rubinger wrote: > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:48:56 -0500 > > From: BMWNoSpam@NoSpamcomet.net (Phil Marx) > > Subject: BMW: Rear shocks for airhead > > > > I'm looking for any comments/criticism/experience with the Progressive rear > > shocks with heavy duty springs for use on an '81 R100CS. These would be > > used with the Progressive front fork springs. I hear lots of opinions > > about the Koni's and Bilstein won't sell theirs in this country for some > > reason, but little about the Progressives. My riding is usually one-up > > with bags and tent, etc and I weigh about 200 lbs. Stability and handling > > is more important than ride comfort. > > > > Any comments, to the list or privately, would be appreciated. TIA > > > > - -Phil Marx BMWMOA #2024 > > Phil > I have Progressive springs up front and the Adaptive Progressive shock > in the rear of my K75. It turned a nice riding bike into a more solid > handling > performance machine that I was used to. I highly recommend these > products. > > comparable to the > > > > ------------------------------ I had a set of Bilsteins that gave up the ghost on a long trip with too much weight. I put Progressives on the rear and loved them. -- Mark Gensman MgensmanNoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com 95 K1100LT "You're never too old to rock and roll" K-Whiner #51 "The Green Hornet" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 11 11:21:16 1997 From: "Bob Oelschlager" Organization: University of North Texas To: denx7dNoSpam@NoSpamnas.com, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:27:52 CST-6CDT Subject: Re: BMW: I'm Forked!??? Reply-To: "Bob Oelschlager" Naw, you're not. No sweat, really. If I'm right you'll need, perhaps 4 or 5 tools and a little moxey to attack the problem...shouldn't even have to do much dissasembly, if I got this right. Remove front wheel. (Crescent, 'um, I mean "adjustable" wrench and allen, wrench, 8mm, I believe) Remove fender mount on offending side. (8mm allen and 13mm box/open end). And if so equipped on that side, remove the caliper (17mm box/open or your crescent and a large flat head screwdriver) Remove slider from tube/valving. Here's where it got tricky, but no sweat with the help of my up until this point overpriced Clymer manual. Grind two flats on a 13mm socket, such that your "adjustable wrench" or in my case a 15mm wrench fits it well. Use this to back off the lock nut on the bottom of the fork assy, whilst holding the valve assembly with a 4mm allen wrench. Sounds wierd, but if you look carefully, the nut under the black rubber plug at the bottom of the fork assy is screwed onto a "bolt" that has a hex socket on the end. Don't turn the hex socket part, turn the nut part. Once the nut is off, retrieve the washer and set aside. The slider should slide right off amidst the remaining fork oil, so get a pan to catch it all unless you like greasy messes on the floor. I carefully pried out the old seal with a screwdriver, working my way around the perimeter UNDER the seal, leveraging same on the opposite side...Oh hell, I'm lost trying to describe it. Once you get the seal out, take a socket really close to the same size of the outer diameter of the seal and after cleaning the seating surface in the slider, gently tap the new seal in place, using the aforementioned socket as a "drift". Careful! Not too hard or agressive, now. What I'm trying to say is this isn't rocket science, at all. I think I could prolly get it done plus put away a 6 pack in a relaxing evening and still not screw it up. Pretty elegant engineering if you ask me. (bowing toward the Fatherland) You still got time to get a book, oil and a seal, even mail order, if you get with it and ask the mail order folks to get with it. Seal should cost 5 to 7 bucks. My /6 took 250cc of fluid per leg. Some like 5w oil, some 7.5w, some 10w, some 15w, some like ATF, some like AeroShell bla bla bla. This could generate a debate that could take on epic proportions. Git ya some good forkin oil an pour in about 250ml (or ccs if you like) when you are done. Most fork oil bottles have marks on the side to help you measure approximately 250ml easily. I wouldn't ride around on a bike with a leaking seal. The potential loss of front tire traction might distract me as much as actually loosing said traction. Doesn't paint a pretty picture. Best o luck! bobbyO ********************************************************** Robert Oehlschlager Internet: BOBBYONoSpam@NoSpamABN.UNT.EDU Office of Admissions University of North Texas PO Box 13797 Voice: (817) 565-2681 Denton, TX 76201-6797 (817) 565-3330 USA FAX: (817) 565-2408 ********************************************************** From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 11 14:01:06 1997 From: EXLAXATCNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:17:05 -0400 (EDT) To: gnNoSpam@NoSpamcray.com, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: R11RT shocks? Reply-To: EXLAXATCNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com In a message dated 97-06-11 11:05:56 EDT, gnNoSpam@NoSpamcray.com (Gary Nelson) writes: << I have 25,000+ miles on my R11RT now, and I think the shocks are pretty much shot. I've been looking in MOAN and OTL for replacement shocks, but haven't seen any advertised. According to Progressive Suspension's web pages, they don't make shocks yet for the R11RT. >> Gary, Near as I can tell you have a couple of options. Ohlins or Works Performance. I recently installed Ohlins on both ends of my RT and LOVE THEM! The front shock has adjustable preload and rebound dampning. The rear has hydraulically adjustable preload, rebound dampning, and ride height. I ordered my shocks from Pettersson Pro Suspension though San Jose BMW and had stiffer than stock springs installed (I weigh 220). The front spring rate is perfect and actually I wouldn't mind if the rear was a little stiffer (although it's MUCH better than stock!). The biggest difference between Ohlins and Works (besides price) is the lack of hydraulically adjustable preload on the rear. Works uses a stepped collar which allows you to lock out the lower rate spring for heavier loads. The price of the Works rear shock is nearly as much as an Ohlins but I think the front is $2-300 less. Steve Heywood AMA#417841 MOA#71886 RA#21291 IOC#668 GOB#11 Pinole, CA R1100RTL Yamaha 650 Seca From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 11 15:30:55 1997 Date: 11 Jun 1997 13:48:51 -0500 From: "Diaz Jon" Subject: BMW: R1100RT shocks To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: "Diaz Jon" Gary Nelson wrote: >Are there any aftermarket shocks available yet? (Jon Diaz, you >put Penske shocks on your RT? I remember when you related your >story, but don't remember the details.) At the time I was looking, aftermarket RT shocks were available from Ohlins, Works Performance, and White Power, although the Ohlins seem to be the prevalent choice among the people doing the choosing......for good reason, their product is consistently a top-rated unit that does the job. My gripe with Ohlins was that no remote reservoirs (and as such, no adjustable compression damping) were provided, yet they charged premium coin for what amounted to their basic shock. The argument was that they could not package the hydraulic lines, and also, adj. compression damping was not needed because 'the geometry of the system controls the rate of compression.' Hogwash. Knowing that my RT would spend a significant portion of its time on pockmarked concrete and asphalt 'roads' in the upper MIdwest, I wanted a way to dial in a soft compression hit to minimize fatigue on long days, yet still retain a sporting configuration when necessary. I discussed a custom set of shocks with Penske over the phone, and after a visit from Rich Bernecker, receipt of my stock shocks, evaluation my measurements and my performance requirements, and taking a boatload of my $$ :), they produced something I could use. We had to make a few changes in the mechanical packaging at the beginning, but the mistakes that were made were due to things that I dictated, so it cost me $30 here and there to fix what I'd spec'd incorrectly. But I think it was worthwhile. This is now one unique R1100RT. I can set it to be mushy when I want, or go full Ducati 851 when necessary. The adjustable ride height capability of the rear shock got the undercarriage off the ground, and I haven't scraped anything in the 16K miles I've had them mounted. I'm very happy with the results, and even if I had to sell the RT, I would keep the shocks and install them on my RS or Sue's RS. A simple spring change would be all that was required for these shocks to work on those lighter bikes. Two items related to mechanical packaging might be a PITA for the average user. Changing the front rebound damping requires a little contorting around the upper triple clamp, and changing the rear preload requires shock removal. Neither of these bother me, since both adjustments have been set-and-forget in my experience. Would I do the shocks again? You bet. I found nothing but brick walls when I tried to order the Ohlins and White Power product from stateside distributors, but the Penske guys jumped right on my project basically sight unseen (Dickhead #1's visit to Reading helped immensely) and worked hard to make sure I got what I wanted. Jon Diaz From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 12 14:38:25 1997 Date: 12 Jun 1997 13:10:19 -0500 From: "Diaz Jon" Subject: BMW: Fox shock misinformation To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: "Diaz Jon" Mark Gensman wrote: >Fox shock $575.00 (no delivery but a comment that they need to be >rebuilt every 20-30K and it takes a long time and costs a lot) I only have 105,000 miles on my Fox shock, so others might have more experience, but it has received a grand total of _one_ oil change during that time, and was out of service for four days. Never has needed a rebuild yet, because it has never leaked and works fine. Scott Adams had his Fox rebuilt by the factory, and I think it cost $85 and two weeks. Dunno where you are getting your info Mark. Jon Diaz From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jun 13 06:24:39 1997 From: "Ian Schmeisser" To: "Mark Gensman" , "Diaz Jon" Cc: Subject: Re: BMW: Fox shock misinformation Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:07:24 -0400 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Ian Schmeisser" Fox is a big improvement over stock...VERY high quality...and a lot cheaper than Ohlins. Ian ---------- > From: Mark Gensman > To: Diaz Jon > Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com > Subject: Re: BMW: Fox shock misinformation > Date: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 1:49 AM > > > Diaz Jon wrote: > > > > Mark Gensman wrote: > > > > >Fox shock $575.00 (no delivery but a comment that they need to be > > >rebuilt every 20-30K and it takes a long time and costs a lot) > > > > I only have 105,000 miles on my Fox shock, so others might have more > > experience, but it has received a grand total of _one_ oil change > > during that time, and was out of service for four days. Never has > > needed a rebuild yet, because it has never leaked and works fine. > > > > Scott Adams had his Fox rebuilt by the factory, and I think it cost > > $85 and two weeks. Dunno where you are getting your info Mark. > > > > Jon Diaz > I got it from my dealer. I have been corrected a couple of times now, so > I guess I got crap information. Is the Fox a big improvement over the > stock shock? I like to ride my LT like an RS and I want all the > performance I can get. > -- > Mark Gensman MgensmanNoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com > 95 K1100LT "You're never too old to rock and roll" > K-Whiner #51 "The Green Hornet" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jun 13 21:17:05 1997 From: Edward Guzman Subject: BMW: K-bike shock (Reply) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com (Beemer List) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Reply-To: Edward Guzman John Moore >OK -- so I'm new to K bikes. Being such, I >don't know what the bike (87 KRS) felt like >with NEW shocks. I don't know if I'm in need >of new. How does one tell if it's time? dude... it's time. the stocker was "good" if i can use that term, for MAYBE 5K... get a Fox... Now. -- Edward Guzman "Gooz" eguzmanNoSpam@NoSpamuswest.com, DoD #1181 | (Practitioner of Sport Touring Madness at it's best!) /\ --*-- US West Communications, IT SCM/DCM Denver CO, USA / \/\ | --> Hey, these are MY views.... Not US West's! <-- / / \ /\ '96 K1100RS * '93 900SS * Lots of Lionels too. / / \ \ You ever notice how common sense, isn't? --COLORADO!-- From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jun 17 02:48:14 1997 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:24:31 -0700 (PDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Dennis & Karen Withner Subject: BMW: Fork oil seal removal- R100/7 (not forked afterall) Reply-To: Dennis & Karen Withner Technoprezes- Seems I'm not forked afterall, with some good advice from the list. I did a little crashlet a while back and recently discovered some leaking fork oil under the boot. I did the Tom Bowman hoola test, by loosening the lower tripple, the upper fork nut, the axle and clamps and fender and turning the tube. Rotating the tube produced no oscillation in the slider. Yippeee! Then I followed the bobbyO sliderdectomy procedure. A hell of lot easier to follow than Clymers. All is cool so far, except that geting the old oil seal out looks like one of those jobs where one wrong move might ruin the slider. Clymers describes how to put the seal back in, but not how to remove it. I did a little prying w/ a screwdriver, but it isn't moving and makes me VERY nervous about buggering the thing. Have checked FAQ's and tech articles but find no clues. Guidance Please.... Looking for tubular advice Dennis (DMW) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Dennis Maxwell, & Karen Lee, Withner BMWRA/AIRHEADS/MOA/ULC Ham-NX7D SSI-IT #123 Ham-KA7EJO ANDI,NAUI,YMCA,PADI Diving Travel Agent Washington Divers Inc. 903 N State St, Bellingham WA 98225 ph 360-676-8029 fax 360-647-5028 ~Diving Educators and Outfitters since 1973~ 77' R100/7 "Educator" Carpe Beemum - (sieze the Beemer) *********************** From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 25 16:34:07 1997 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:05:43 -0500 To: "Dr. Matt Loudis" , bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Scott A Klemptner Subject: Re: BMW: Front wheel wobble Reply-To: Scott A Klemptner At 06:07 PM 6/25/97 +0000, Dr. Matt Loudis wrote: > >Fellow prezzies: >For the remaining unfortunate masses who could not attend the National >(myself included), I have a problem and need some advice. >I'm sure this has been posted before, and I appreciate your patience.... >My `91 K75s has a wheel wobble between approximately 30-40 mph. I can >feel the handlebars wobble in my hands, and letting go a visable wobble >is present (no tank slappies). This is most pronounced when the >throttle is cut, although sometimes its present (not as bad) during >accleration. I tried to have the dealer address this,and all that was >done was to tighten the headset. This has resulted in the bike pulling >to the right on hands-off. My bike as a little over 26K miles, and the >front tire appears to be evenly worn. What else should be onsidered... >headset bearings? etc? The bike has not been in an accident, however, >when touring it carries quite a bit (about 150 lbs below gvw wet). >Any advice would be appreciated! Aloha! Matt > Matt and List, My 87 K75s (110K miles)had a similar front end problem, mine showed up worst under full throttle (the bike is bored to 852cc, long rods, big intake valves, cams, Keihin carbs, etc) when the front wheel would get light. The solution was a new "fluidbloc" steering dampener. I replaced it myself. The old one was hard and "fell off" the sterring stem, the new one was soft and had to be firmly pressed (by hand) onto the steering stem. Problem cured. Before I got to that point, I had adjusted head bearings, new tires (it was time), new rear shock (it was time), new front wheel bearings (they were original BMW says replace at 20k miles). It was a BMW mechanic that suggested the fluidbloc. I think he was correct as all the other changes made no difference. Scott **************************************************** Scott A. Klemptner sklemptnerNoSpam@NoSpamworldnet.att.net BMWMOA # 3962 Dinky Dozen BMW Riders #13 1974 BMW R60/6 "Slash" 1987 BMW K75s "Kato" 1997 Triumph T595 (in July and unnamed) **************************************************** From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 3 11:51:11 1997 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 08:07:14 -0700 From: Scott Lee Organization: CAD Toolbox To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: re:K-Bike fork types X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Reply-To: Scott Lee ---------------------------question From: Thomas Roemer Subject: BMW: K 75s Front Fork Oil Quantity? Hi, I am just changing the oil in my '87 K75s and notice that there is a difference in quantity between the standard and the sport suspension (330 ml vs 280 ml). How can I tell what suspension I have? Thanks, Thomas -----------------answer The "Sport" forks have an "s" stamped into the top (horizontal) surface of the fork caps, made visible after you pop the black plastic cover off with a screwdriver. Those forks get the lower volume of fluid-I prefer 7.5W BMW oil, having tried 10W spectro and found it to be a little on the "harsh" side. Scott Lee Somewhere in L.A. (the one with earthquakes, riots, floods and fires, like the one in the foothills behind my house yesterday..) NOT #e Laguna F. Seca, Site 48, 1730 (5:30 p.m.) Saturday, July 12 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 10 15:30:47 1997 From: WARUSZEWSKNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:07:14 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Forking around Reply-To: WARUSZEWSKNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Before I bought my KRS, (but had made arrangements to do so) Bob's had advertised a special on progressive springs and an anti dive kit from West Coast. Finaly, with a little additional bravery supplied from info on the IBMWR K tech pages, I got around to the install. Got everything apart. Easy enough. Now if I can remember how to,,, never mind. Could not get the fork tubes back on and get the screw back into the bottom. (this is a longer replacement screw). Sit back and ponder over a beer. Forget the instructions. Look at the fit of the parts. Now it makes sense. Went back together in a minute. Fill with fresh new polyunsaturated chlorestoral free synthatic 15 weight fork oil as recomended by multi-prezzzidents before. WoooooooooW. This is exactly what I had hoped for. I don't know how much the oil vs the anti dive is doing, but the result is great. Under hard front braking, a little dip. Bumps are still tollorable. Chuck holes are still a pain (I have been meaning to talk to Chuck about that). As a 250er on a KRS, I can highly reccomend 15W fork oil. On an RT/LT or if you are a person a slighter physical significance, a 10 or 12.5 may be better. VIC WARUSZEWSKI, SoD # 21 VI#1 MOA 85 K100RS BMW Touring Club of Detroit MOA#1, Motor City Beemers Team K-Basa #3 http://pages.prodigy.com/bmwtcd We'll have some high times, and live them low. Get some fast food and eat it slow. I'm hungry when I get up, and sleepy when I eat. Only time I feel right, I got the road beneith my feet. - The Fabulous Thunderbirds From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 16 19:24:22 1997 From: bmwdougNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com To: CFACTORNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:11:19 -0400 Subject: Re: BMW: Fork Oil or Progressive springs X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4-6 Reply-To: bmwdougNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com Chas, your comment about the front end diving too much, tellsme the springs are the way to go. You could however, try the BMW 7.5 wt. oil first as a test, but you'll probably end up with the springs. Having put the HD springs in various bikes, they "seem" the way for me. Doug Adams in West Bygawd From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 16 23:11:41 1997 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:50:51 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Don Eilenberger Subject: BMW: RE: Fork Oil or Progressive springs Cc: CFACTORNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Reply-To: Don Eilenberger Chas asks: >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:04:39 -0400 (EDT) >From: CFACTORNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com >Subject: BMW: Fork Oil or Progressive springs > >Greetings all, > >I am feeling that my 87 K100RS w/only 19.5K is just too soft and dives too >much in the front end. What would some of you recommend to do, replace fork >oil w/heavier oil or go ahead w/new springs? I need some opinions. Thanks. >BTW, I replaced my own brake pads f & r and that was easy self maintenance. I >am proud. > >Chas Walter >Tulsa,Ok >87 K100RS You'll probably get lots of responses to this - as everyone has their favorite setup - and what works for one person may not for you.. lots depends on your weight, the normal bike load you carry and how you ride. FWIW - On my '85 K100RT, I'm using Progressive springs in the front with 7.5 weight BMW oil, and a Works Performance shock on the rear. As of tonight - I think I've finally got it dialed in to where I want it.. I noticed on my treck to Udder Nonsense on 4th of July weekend that the bike rode and handled much better with a 100 lb load of camping stuff on the back (more or less a guess at the weight, but probably within 15 lbs..). I'd bought the Works Performance shock used - from a list member who was around my weight. Works shocks are matched to you AND your bike.. the valving is not externally adjustable, so to get a good match, you've gotta call'em and tell them what you weigh, how you ride and what bike it's going on. Since I got it used - I'd assumed since the former owner was about my weight - it would be correct. WRONG! I talked to Tom at Works last week (that's why I'd asked for their phone number). Whenever I've talked to them - I've been very satisfied with the outcome.. they do try to be genuinely helpful - even when I told him I'd bought the shock used. His first response was to ask if I remembered who I'd bought if from (I didn't) so he could look it up in their records and see how it was setup. Since I didn't have the info he needed - we discussed what could be the problem. His first suggestion was to measure the preload compression with me on and off the bike.. and he gave me the distance in preload to shoot for. If this wasn't the problem - he suggested when I had a time when I didn't need the shock, send it back to them and they'd rebuild it and revalve it specifically for me. SO - I checked the preload compression with me on and not on the bike.. and it was about 1/2 of the distance Tom said would be right. Tonight I took the shock off at a friends moto shop, and used his big hydraulic press to change the preload (it requires compressing the spring so a clip can be moved which holds a cup in place on one end of the spring..). MUCH BETTER - and not just the rear of the bike - the front feels MUCH BETTER... which is the point of this longwinded story - don't only 'fix' the front-end. It will help - but the rear suspension also has a strong effect on how the front end feels! If you still have the stock BMW shock on the rear - it probably has seen it's life - and there are better shocks out there (much better according to some people..) Outta the shock mfgs I've been able to afford - I'm sold on Works Performance.. the attitude when I call them is comparible to Rider Warehouse.. the customer IS RIGHT - and they seem to realize that the way to have return customers is by treating everyone right. I cannot say I found that attitude with Progressive - in my case they told me something incorrect, which convinced me to buy one of their shocks.. when it didn't work - and I called - they told me "We never told you that" - basically calling me a liar. They also refused to admit that the shock they sold me could have had a problem (it did..). Because of this - I will never deal with the company or buy their products again. Caviat Emptor.. Works Performance also offers front springs for the K bikes - if I was ordering them today (I'd ordered the Progressive springs before I got the used Works shock), I'd probably go for their springs - if for no other reason than I can call them and talk to a person who is willing to spend some time figuring out what will work for me. If there is an additional cost - I think it would be worth it. Other 'higher-priced' options: Luftmeister used to make K springs - had them next to Progressives once - guess what - same springs! White Power makes springs - heard good things - haven't tried'em, dunno.. they also make a rear shock. Supposed to be good stuff - but pricey. Ohlins makes a rear shock - dunno about front springs. Very pricey. HTH! ======================================= Don Eilenberger Spring Lk Hts, NJ, USA deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com ======================================= From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 16 23:38:21 1997 X-Sent-Via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ From: "Rob Lentini" To: , "IBMWR" Subject: BMW: re: Fork Oil or Progressive springs Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:15:05 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" Chas asks: ==== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:04:39 -0400 (EDT) From: CFACTORNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Subject: BMW: Fork Oil or Progressive springs Greetings all, I am feeling that my 87 K100RS w/only 19.5K is just too soft and dives too much in the front end. What would some of you recommend to do, replace fork oil w/heavier oil or go ahead w/new springs? I need some opinions. Thanks. BTW, I replaced my own brake pads f & r and that was easy self maintenance. I am proud. ==== Hold on! Your springs may be fine but the spring preload weak. You need to measure and adjust (if necessary) the suspension sag as measured with the bike on its centerstand, then with a full load of fuel and you sitting on it. Sag is the amount of travel of the suspension used up with a full static load. It should approximate about 1/3 of total travel or, in your K's case, about 2" since your '87 K100 has almost 7" of travel. Measure from the top of the fork slider to a fixed point on the frame, fairing, or upper yoke. Get a friend to help to do this. Then sit on the bike, get it off the stand, and re-measure for sag difference. You're looking for 2" or so, and much more indicates your springs need longer spacers inside the fork tube between the caps and the tops of the springs. Schedule 40 PVC pipe is useful for extending or replacing fork spacers. Try this (using directions in the Haynes manual for disassembly and re-assembly) and notice, I predict, fine manners out of your front end. Along with this procedure, change your fork oil to the specified 330cc each side with 7 weight name brand fork lubricant. regards, Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ (520) 790-8865 (H), (520) 295-6411 (B) '94 R 1100 RS Three Flags 97 #205 MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA BMWMOA Board Member "Elect" "LET'S RIDE MORE AND POLITIC LESS" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 17 22:42:51 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:02:20 To: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu (jim roche) From: Tom Bowman Subject: Re: BMW: Shake N. Tony's Bike Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Tom Bowman >>Subject: BMW: K1100RS wobble >> My '96 K11RS developed a speed wobble in the 45-60 MPH range. With >>only 4500mi I figgered that it wasn't steering bearings but checked them >>anyway. No play& no notching. Next step was to replace the tires, went from >>Bridgestones to Metzlers. This seemed to cure the shakes but 1000mi. later >>it was back. Loading the rear with bags and camp gear made it lots worse. >>Took it into dealer and they agreed the bearings were ok, but they wanted >>to check it out further. Got the bike back and they told me they adjusted >>the bearings, but it only took 1/4 inch of turn on the adj nut. The shake >>seems to be gone. I'm real skeptical cause it didn't seem like that little >>of adj. would matter. Is there a spec. for torque on this adj. nut, or is >>it just tighten to fit? Any feedback will be appreciated. >>Tony Angco >Dear Tony, change wheel balancers. Best, >Jim(Dr.Curve)Roche It's not wheel balance. First, check your tire pressure. If that's okay, increase rear shock spring preload by at least one "notch": springs gradually lose their temper and "sag", and as the rear spring sags, front end rake and trail is increased, which causes the kind of wobble Tony is describing. If the wobble decreases when the rear end is unloaded, it's spring preload (or tire pressure). Tom Bowman Atlanta "Cosmo" 93 PD "Hobbes" 78 RS From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jul 21 17:05:30 1997 From: "James Mulligan" To: iansNoSpam@NoSpambellsouth.net, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:57:31 +0000 Subject: Re: BMW: Need advice on rear shocks Reply-To: "James Mulligan" > > My OEM is shot and I need to replace it. What is the general consensus > on > > rear shocks. Are Koni's really too stiff, will a mere mortal like me > > notice any difference in an Ohlins? Should I get a progressive or a Fox? I would caution you against a Progressive. I got one and as soon as it was installed it began to rust. Jim From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 23 09:40:01 1997 From: Harris_Gary/ny_technologyNoSpam@NoSpamexplorer.siny.com X-Openmail-Hops: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 09:25:20 -0400 Subject: RE: BMW: RE: K75S/Shock Inquiry To: ginofNoSpam@NoSpammindspring.com, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Harris_Gary/ny_technologyNoSpam@NoSpamexplorer.siny.com ---------- >From: ginofNoSpam@NoSpammindspring.com >since you do solo and 2 up riding (like myself) one helpful think i can say >is that it is nice to be able to easily make adjustments to the preload (ie. >works). i haven't tried it myself, but the threaded preload (ohlins?) looks >like a pain and i think requires tool(s). The Ohlins Type 4 has the easiest-to-use pre-load adjuster in the world. All you do is turn the knob on top of the remote pre-load adjuster. No tools needed. Gary - NYC From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 23 12:13:13 1997 From: Harris_Gary/ny_technologyNoSpam@NoSpamexplorer.siny.com X-Openmail-Hops: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 12:01:08 -0400 Subject: BMW: Ohins Type 4 Rear Shock To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Harris_Gary/ny_technologyNoSpam@NoSpamexplorer.siny.com -------------< COMMENTS BY BurkeT >-------------- Does this knob adjust pre-load or damping rates? ----------< END OF COMMENTS BY BurkeT >---------- The knob on the remote *pre-load* adjuster adjusts *pre-load*. Damping rates are adjusted via a knob on a second remote reservoir (compression) and a dial on the bottom of the shock (rebound). Gary - NYC From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 23 15:01:31 1997 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:37:02 -0500 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Chuck DeSantis Subject: Re: BMW: K75S/Shock Inquiry Reply-To: Chuck DeSantis >My inclination, other than to try to sort out the collective, group >wisdom and consciousness of the Prezzes, is to spend the bucks and go >for the Ohlins - but, like everyone else, I'd rather spend less. Barry: I put an Ohlins on my K75 recently. Going in, I had intended to get a Fox. The difference in cost was less than $100 so I considered it to be a no-brainer. The Ohlins was $650; the Fox would have been $575 or $595, depending on source. Needless to say, the Ohlins works GREAT. Chuck Chuck DeSantis Crystal Lake, IL From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 23 15:10:22 1997 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:46:30 -0400 From: jasonNoSpam@NoSpamny.hedgefin.com (Jason Goldsmith) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Thanks Reply-To: jasonNoSpam@NoSpamny.hedgefin.com (Jason Goldsmith) Just wanted to post a note to thank everybody who replied to my question concerning rear shocks. The response was overwhelming and it seems that everyone is really happy with their shock unit. This is a good thing. Since each shock seemed to work admirably for the rider, I decided to look at other factors (cost, mostly, and warranty), and opted for a Koni. The lifetime warranty is just too good to pass up. Besides, I found a great price (close to $100 below most dealers I called) and I couldn't pass it up! Once again, thanks to everybody for the input, especially on how to set the shocks up! See you on the road when my frame ain't saggin' :-) Regards, Jason N Goldsmith New York City - Be Not Afraid 1993 BMW K75S 1980 Kawi KZ440 LTD (For Sale) From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 23 15:39:49 1997 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:07:10 -0500 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Chuck DeSantis Subject: RE: BMW: RE: K75S/Shock Inquiry Reply-To: Chuck DeSantis > >The Ohlins Type 4 has the easiest-to-use pre-load adjuster in the >world. All you do is turn the knob on top of the remote pre-load >adjuster. No tools needed. Gary is quite right -- but Ohlins does not make a Type 4 for the K75/100. The model for these bikes does require a special spanner similar to the stock BMW item. OTOH, it is the same procedure to adjust the Fox preload. Additionally, the Ohlins compression and rebound damping are on the shock body; no need to locate a remote adjuster (as with most Fox units). Chuck Chuck DeSantis Crystal Lake, IL From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 23 18:33:08 1997 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:00:21 -0600 (MDT) From: "Bryan Lally (lallyNoSpam@NoSpamlanl.gov)" To: cdesantisNoSpam@NoSpamearthlink.net Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: RE: BMW: RE: K75S/Shock Inquiry Reply-To: "Bryan Lally (lallyNoSpam@NoSpamlanl.gov)" Chuck DeSantis's keyboard spoke: > Gary is quite right -- but Ohlins does not make a Type 4 for the K75/100. > The model for these bikes does require a special spanner similar to the > stock BMW item. > > OTOH, it is the same procedure to adjust the Fox preload. Additionally, > the Ohlins compression and rebound damping are on the shock body; no need > to locate a remote adjuster (as with most Fox units). And, as Jon Diaz pointed out to me, the Fox remote reservoir isn't a problem on a K75. It attaches to the horizontal frame rail under the left side battery cover. Easy to install, completely hidden, easy to adjust. Not an issue. The preload adjustment does take a few minutes. - Bryan From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 23 22:45:20 1997 To: grwNoSpam@NoSpamteleport.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: New Works Front R11RS Shock X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-5,7-14,16,18-19,21,23-24,26-27,29-33 From: markcrowderNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Mark A Crowder) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:30:41 EDT Reply-To: markcrowderNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Mark A Crowder) On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Gary Wasserman writes: > >I picked up my new Works front shock last week and installed it on >Thursday evening. I've been fooling with preload and rebound >adjustments ever since. I may do the sensible thing and call Works for advice >this week, time permitting. > >Any other R11 owners have experience with the Works shock? I'd love >to hear from you. Gary, I don't have a Works shock (went with those Pensylvania folks myself), but I can tell you its vital to set the sag correctly first! You'll want the initial sag to be about 30% of your total travel -- which in your case will be about 1.25-1.5 inches. The easiest way to get an approximate measure is to put a cable tie on one fork leg just tight enough so that gravity will not move it. Then get on the bike, slide the tie down to the dust cap, put your hands on the bars and momentarily pick up your feet. Then, without bouncing the bike, put in onto the main stand, lever the front off the ground (no weight on the front wheel) and measure between the top of the dust cap and the bottom of the tie. That's the sag. Adjust the pre-load untill you've got that right, and THEN fiddle with the rebound. Mark Crowder Garland, TX markcrowderNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com We're the ones you're mother warned you about From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 24 00:54:34 1997 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:36:49 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Don Eilenberger Subject: BMW: Pre-load.. wuz somethin' else.. (sorry - longish) Reply-To: Don Eilenberger Mark mentioned in a posting about setting FRONT preload on an R11Rsomething: > I don't have a Works shock (went with those Pensylvania folks >myself), but I can tell you its vital to set the sag correctly first! >You'll want >the initial sag to be about 30% of your total travel -- which in your >case will >be about 1.25-1.5 inches. The easiest way to get an approximate measure >is to put a cable tie on one fork leg just tight enough so that gravity >will not >move it. Then get on the bike, slide the tie down to the dust cap, put >your >hands on the bars and momentarily pick up your feet. Then, without >bouncing the bike, put in onto the main stand, lever the front off the >ground >(no weight on the front wheel) and measure between the top of the dust >cap and the bottom of the tie. That's the sag. Adjust the pre-load >untill >you've got that right, and THEN fiddle with the rebound. > >Mark Crowder Garland, TX markcrowderNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com >We're the ones you're mother warned you about Ummm - this is where I'm confused (again). I think I mentioned recently that I started playing with the preload (sag) on my Works rear K100RT shock (shorty one).. and I spoke with Works about it. (This call was the result of me noticing how much better the K rode and handled with 100 lbs of camping junk [boy! The Kermit chair is a bit heavy.. nice but oak is heavy] on it.) Works - when I spoke with them I think they basically outlined the following procedure: - take bike off stand - balance it without sitting, make a measurement. - then sit on it, jounce once or twice, sit and take weight off feet, measure again. Result should be 1/3 travel of the shock. SO - I did this. And it worked fine. I wuz happy. THEN - I stupidly read the instructions for setting preload that Works was kind enough to FAX to me - they differed from the above, in that they wanted the 1/3 travel* to be from the bike on the centerstand to me sitting on the bike. Since the shock compresses about 3/4" just taking the bike off the stand - and the distance they give for for the compression from THIS point (on the stand) to the preload point (me on the bike) is only 3/4"... which is NOT what I'm using. At this point - I've got the preload set to where the shock is roughly 1/2 (mebbe a bit less) compressed with me on the bike (and the spring Adjustable Rate Suspension - a link between the short spring and the long spring set to the softest setting) - and it seems to work for me. SO - the question is - which way IS correct? First measurement from on the centerstand or off? To me it makes sense that you'd want the shock travel centered when the bike is at normal load - ie, me on it. * = their written instructions say to measure from the center of the rear drive - ie, axle - which there isn't really - to a point on the frame (they don't say which point - and this could make a difference), I make the measurements from shock mounting point to shock mounting point. Since the shock is in a direct line with the axle - I suspect my measurements would turn out to be the same as theirs - if they are measuring in line with the shock (the only other way it would make sense is to measure at exactly vertical to the rear drive to a point on the frame - which - check my rusty geometry - would result in slightly longer distances being measured). PS: I've had the same quandary on other shocks I've tried setting up.. IF I do a 1/3 preload from centerstand (ie - wheel unloaded off ground) to me on the bike - the shocks have always felt oversprung.. but when I do it so I get roughly 1/2 travel with me on the bike - they feel OK. PPS: With the shock set like it is - I rarely feel bottoming - I've gotta look for something really BIG to make it bottom out.. but the ride is MUCH better. And the front end feels better. I suspect that setting the ARS to the next harder setting would eliminate the bottoming entirely (gonna try it). PPPS: One other thing they once mentioned to me during one of my several calls to them about shocks (did I mention they are very helpful on the phone) is that the travel includes roughly 1/2 compression of the rubber bottoming stop on the end of the rod? Confused (but much happier with the ride) in NJ.. (Ideas? Thoughts? Dr. Curve? Rooz? Rob? Paul?) ======================================= Don Eilenberger Spring Lk Hts, NJ, USA deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com ======================================= From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 25 03:39:34 1997 To: deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Pre-load.. wuz somethin' else.. (sorry - longish) X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-35,37-42,44-45,47-48,50-62,64-67,69-75 From: markcrowderNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Mark A Crowder) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:09:07 EDT Reply-To: markcrowderNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Mark A Crowder) [Don Eilenberger wonders about how to set the rear sag corrects] > >PS: I've had the same quandary on other shocks I've tried setting up.. >IF I do a 1/3 preload from centerstand (ie - wheel unloaded off >ground) >to me on the bike - the shocks have always felt oversprung.. but when >I do it so I get roughly 1/2 travel with me on the bike - they feel >OK. > >PPS: With the shock set like it is - I rarely feel bottoming - I've >gotta look for something really BIG to make it bottom out.. but the >ride is MUCH better. And the front end feels better. I suspect that >setting the ARS to the next harder setting would eliminate the >bottoming entirely (gonna try it). > >PPPS: One other thing they once mentioned to me during one of my >several calls to them about shocks (did I mention they are very >helpful on the phone) is that the travel includes roughly 1/2 >compression of the rubber bottoming stop on the end of the rod? > >Confused (but much happier with the ride) in NJ.. (Ideas? Thoughts? >Dr. Curve? Rooz? Rob? Paul?) Don, I was hoping someone else would answer, but here goes ... The following is from the "Penske Racing Shock 8900 Series Road Race Technical Manual", page 2. Installation -- Setting the Sag ----------------------------------- Step 1 1) With no rider on the bike, have an assistant lift the rear of the motorcycle untill the rear wheel is off the ground slightly. 2) Using a tape measure, measure the distance between the axle center line and a convenient location on the rear subframe (Figure 1). [ed. Figure 1 depicts a measurement from the axle center to a point vertically above the axle center on the subframe] 3) Record this measurement as "A" Step 2 1) this step requires the rider and two additional people. 2) One person should hold the front of the motorcycle, straddling the front tire. 3) Have the rider, wearing all his gear, sit on the bike in tuck position. 4) The third person should then measure the distance between the axle center line and a convenient location on the rear subframe (same locations used in Step 1). 5) Record this measurement as "B". Step 3 1) Subtract "B" from "A". This number is your sag. ------------------------------------------------------------------ A more involved method was published as part of a series of articles by Paul Thede of Race Tech in "Sport Rider", back when "Sport Rider" was worth a damn. But, the answer remains the same -- sag is measured from "no-load" to "full load" -- "full load" being you and whatever else (passenger, gear) you want to compensate for. 30% of travel is the rule-of-thumb for the street, just as 20% of travel is the rule-of-thumb for the track. But these are really just starting points. The right number is whatever keeps you in control, and strikes a happy medium between bottoming out and topping out. If 50% of travel works for you, then it works! Mark Crowder Garland, TX markcrowderNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com We're the ones your mother warned you about From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Aug 9 07:34:34 1997 Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 05:44:13 -0500 To: Dana Priesing From: Chuck DeSantis Subject: Re: BMW: Aeroflow and the K11RS and... Cc: IBMWR Reply-To: Chuck DeSantis X-No-Archive: yes Dana Priesling wrote: > An interesting test might be the Lufties with 10 wt. Anybody out >there using that setup? Or someone who has the WPs installed, with 7.5 or >10 wt.? Interested to hear about it. Hi Dana, I've got the WPs with 10 wt in my 1100LT and have been very pleased. There are several others on the list with WPs as well. The setup I'm using seems to provide a high degree of comfort over most road surfaces, yet doesn't get upset going over bumps when leaned over. Extremely stable front end at speed. I've heard nothing but very positive comments from other WP users. BTW, the WP folks recommend 10 wt in their installation instructions. Chuck Chuck DeSantis Crystal Lake, IL From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Aug 10 18:44:30 1997 Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 15:36:47 -0700 From: Scott Lee Organization: CAD Toolbox To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: re: K-Bike forks/suspension setup Reply-To: Scott Lee X-No-Archive: yes After experimenting with 5, 7.5 and 10 weight fork oil, I have gone with the 7.5, as I feel that is combines stable operation in fast sweepers with tolerable operation over freeway irregularities. There is a BMW version of this oil, which I use. Springs are Luftmeister gold, in "S" forks mounted to an 88 K100RS. I hated the stock springs with 5 weight oil, and put in the springs/heavier oil the first weekend I owned the bike.. Ohlins rear, with the spring powder coated black because the orange is a little loud..The powder coat has held up extremely well over the years, BTW, with no orange peeking thru. Scott Lee Somewhere in L.A. NOT #e From "Sobczyk, Joe" Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 22:46:00 PDT From: "Sobczyk, Joe" Subject: RE: BMW: Shocks - When Are They Shot? David Petersen asked: >How can you tell when the shock is shot? How do you measure the degree of >wear? Check the sag, that is the difference between shock length at full extension and it's length with you and a normal load in place and on the ground. Easy way is to tie a string around the damper rod while bike's on the centerstand, then gently bring it off the stand and sit on it while your handy helper helps balance. Put bike back on center and measure how far the string moved after you. Should be no more than about 30 percent of full travel. I presume it's bottoming on full preload in places it didn't before. 12K seems to be about the limit for the trash OEM shocks that usually come from the fatherland. Past experience says that BMWNA views shock absorbers, like brake pads and tires, a normal wear item. It's on your tab. Can't hurt to ask, but don't get your hopes up. Joe Sobczyk Washington DC 81 R65 85 K100RS SobczykNoSpam@NoSpamWashpost.com The opinions are my own, etc. From ken dibnah Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 18:30:04 -0700 Subject: Re: BMW: forks! About my K100 forks... I took the whole thing apart again (quicker this time!) after first removing the springs and checking for binding, which they did with a vengeance. I then dismantled everything and checked everything for wear, damage etc. and held the tubes together to make sure they were not bent, and I could find nothing except some wierd scuff marks at the very bottom of the tubes, which should not touch anything. I do have Progressive springs and I reinstalled them without the spacer, which seemed to be too much pre-load if I am looking for a more compliant ride. The manual says to do one at a time so as not to mix up the parts, but I did them together and purposely swapped tubes. Beautiful! They are perfect! Exactly what I wanted and hoped for - they soak up the small bumps and stick like a wife at an office party! Thank you for all the help you Prezzes...Now its on to the valves. The Carb-stick will arrive next week; here we go again. (Actually I can hardly wait). Ken Dibnah 85 K100RS (reborn) From ken dibnah Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:35:34 -0700 Subject: BMW: K100 Forks! Subsequent to my sad tale of fork decrepitude, I read all the advice I got from fellow prezzes (thank you, that's why I'm on this list!) and I again attempted to see if fork misalignment was the problem, and to my incredible disappointment and some wearyness, they still stuck. So once again I removed them and dismantled them and this time I took them to my friendly mechanic who miked them and pronounced the tubes to have worn minimally, the sliders to have only .001" left. Oh joy! Now I know the problem! The theory is, if you know what has broken, you know what to fix, right? Mechanic says, "try getting some crocus cloth and polish the interior of the slider to remove tiny amounts of galling and see if that works." Did that, with a drill and a cobbled-up deglazing thing to hold the crocus cloth. Result? After hours (seemed like days, do you know how fine crocus cloth is?) polishing away at the interior, reinstalled the first shiny perfect slider....no change. Oh Shit. Called my marvellous Vancouver dealer (Shaill's BMW) and explaimed the problem, hoping for fiscal mercy: $328 Can. EACH (plus provincial tax and Gouge and Screw tax), 2 weeks wait from Germany. Oh groan, oh hell oh fzck... "Wait, will call you back, may have an idea..." Next day I get a call back: "You're in luck, I have a pair hardly used, they're on the bus to you, $195 Each." (!!) Oh joy, they will be here tomorrow, they are black, which is cool, and I will be able to ride this weekend! I guess where I screwed up was in not carefully measuring all the dimensions. I did not realize how critical the dims. were to fork happiness, and I may have been able to save a lot of effort taking the suckers off and putting them on again. One good thing though, with my own efforts and the input from all you good prezzes, I'm a fzcking expert on overhaul and proper mounting of K100 forks (without sport option)! Now wish me luck that they work, and that I will live happily ever after. Ken Dibnah 85 K100RS (Imminently forked) From "Rob Lentini" Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:26:55 -0700 Subject: BMW: re: K100 Tech Ken writes: ==== Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:04:02 -0700 From: ken dibnah Subject: BMW: K100 Tech Fellow Prezzes: Got my new used fork sliders, black instead of the plain aluminum finish that the old ones had, gave 'em a good clean just to be sure, pre-lubed 'em and offered them to the scoot yesterday. Perfect. Awesome etc. etc. A neat added bonus that may or may not mean anything - the axle just slipped in as if it had been designed to do just that. The old sliders resisted the axle and required spooge and some persuasion with a soft faced blunt object. Now the bike rides just as I am sure it was always supposed to. I installed the Progressives without spacers and used Aeroshell 4 again and it has a nice compliant ride at town speeds, but faster roads, twisties etc. and it feels like it is on rails. M'new Carb Stix arrived too, so I spent a hot hour or so synch'ing the throttle bodies as per Lord Lentini's directions, so except for cosmetics, IT'S FINISHED!! What a difference. The only thing that went wrong with the whole day was as soon as I finished the synch job, the skies opened - it hasn't stopped raining since yesterday ("heavy rainfall warnings") and so I have not been able to give the bike the reverent ride it requires. I am getting a few days off so it may end up being returned to Vancouver in our L188, so I may not get to ride it home. But what a great project its been, a marvellous time-waster, and I could not have done it, at least not as well, without the help I got from you fellow Presidents! Thank you, thank you, thank you. ==== Ken: Now try 3-5% of Dow Corning Gear Gard moly additive in the forks to REALLY experience frictionless sliders! :))) Rob Lentini '94 R1100RS Tucson AZ H 520-790-8865 W 520-295-6411 Three Flags Classic #205 Instructor, Motorcycle Safety Foundation Director, BMW Motorcycle Owners of America I WILL RIDE MORE AND POLITIC LESS From Cal Swallow Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:05:59 -0500 Subject: Re: BMW: Fox shock help At 05:17 P 9/16/97 -0400, Karl asks: >I have a 88 K100LT that I bought used. It had a Fox shock on the rear and >I am now having some problems with it. I do not have the manual but I will Karl, Had a Fox on my old K100. Loved it. Yes it can be rebuilt. I sold my shock when I bought my R1100 and no longer have the address/phone # for Fox. Sorry. Check the Internet Yellow Pages. I'm sure some helpful Prez will give you the contact info. Your shock may just need a recharge of nitrogen gas in the reservoir. I took mine to a local shop that sells dirt bikes. (most use a nitrogen shock) I paid them to recharge the nitrogen. ($20.00) Someone at Fox can tell you what pressure to use. Depends upon the weight of rider + passenger + cargo. You can restore the finish on the reservoir by using steel wool. Mine had a "brushed" finish. Go around and around the cylinder lightly. Take the tube from a roll of toilet tissue, slit it lengthwise. Place it over the nitrogen res. Pull apart a pad of steel wool and put a thin layer between the cardboard tube and the res. Wrap a shoelace around the tube and pull the ends of the cord back and forth (180 deg apart) Be patient and it will end up looking new. The presence of another human to hold the res. while you "polish" will cut down on the cussing. Good luck. Cal Swallow Quincy, IL Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:37:52 -0500 From: Don MacQueen Subject: Re: BMW: sport suspension >On Thu, 25 Sep 1997 wrote: >> HI, How do know if your bike has "sport suspension" or not....I have an >> 88K100RS and want to change the fork oil....I have two different >>measurements >> 11oz and 12oz of fork oil depending on suspension....Got Me ??? any help >> would be appreciated...Thanks Bill > >The sport suspension has a brace between the top of the fork sliders and a >two-piece front fender. The non-sport has a one piece fender. (I think!) All 1986-on K-bikes (except K1?) had the two piece fender with brace. The info is simple: Pop the black dustcap off the top and look for the "S" stamped in the top. BTW: All KRSs and K75Ss had the "sport" suspension. HTH. ____________________________________ Don MacQueen, Shelby NC - -"Man, we've got too much time on our hands!" '95 R1100RS '75 R90/6 '93 GSF 400 Bandit ____________________________________ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:18:06 GMT+2 From: "JP - Roodt" Subject: BMW: Excellent service from Works Performance Dear Prezzes, I live in South Africa and have Works Performance shocks on my 1984 R100RT. Recently I have seen oil leaking out of my shocks when two up. I made inquiries about servicing for my shocks, but it turned out that are not imported into this country any more because of the price (caused by the nosediving value of our currency). I sent a fax to Works Performance In California explaining my problem. If I sent my shocks in for a rebuilt I would have been without my bike for at least six weeks. Pierre Vaillancourt, the applications engineer, replied personally to my fax and gave a full explanation on how I should inspect my shocks to determine which parts needs replacing. It turned out that I only needed a seal kit, which I ordered. It was in the mail on the same day that they received me faxed order together with an extensive explanation on how the rebuild should de performed. I received my parts on Monday and for $30(postage included) my shocks will be as good as new. I can really recommend dealings with this company. Happy riding, Jan Roodt Bloemfontein South Africa So look 'em over. I do now. Jack - -- Charles (Jack) Hawley Chuck....Ham Radio KE9UW AKA "Jack" BMW Motorcycles, MOA #224 K100RS Wife rides...Viki, MOA #18120 K100RS President IBMWR c-hawleyNoSpam@NoSpamuiuc.edu Sr. Research Engineer Emeritus University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 97 04:16:27 UT From: "Jim Cyran" Subject: BMW: New Ohlins Shock for K1200 I just thought I'd post my thoughts on the new Ohlins rear shock I mounted on my K1200. First, my impression of the K12 ride with stock shocks was that the bike was soft and wallowed when ridden hard on tight, bumpy mountain roads. Hitting bumps when leaned over in a turn would sometimes result in peg scraping. The ride while not dramatically bad was just not very confidence inspiring. I also suspected that the suspension was partially responsible for the perceived surging when getting on and off the gas at low speeds. Compared to my R1100GS the ride was disappointing. After putting about 4,700 miles on the K12 I felt the bike was a set of shocks and a seat away from being a near perfect sport touring mount. So it was with this perception that I mounted the ridiculously expensive ($1000+) Ohlins rear shock on the K12. The shock went on with little trouble, the most time consuming part was removing and replacing the body work. The shock comes with adjustments for compression and rebound dampening and hydraulic preload. Since I'm large (6ft, 220lbs) I set the compression dampening +2 clicks, +1 click on rebound dampening and about +3/4 of a turn on preload. The results were stunning. I hadn't ridden a block when I noticed that the ride was firmer and more controlled. The bike no longer squirmed and rocked when getting on and off the gas. Stopping was almost eerie, the bike didn't move. Getting on the gas was the same, I no longer had to fight to keep from sliding back in the seat, the bike no longer squatted on it suspension, power was transferred directly to the rear wheel. All of this without any harshness in the ride. Yesterday I put about 120 miles on the bike over what I would consider to be excellent GS roads, tight and bumpy. The bike is now confidence inspiring instead of confidence draining. The transformation of the ride on the bike is nothing short of amazing. I can honestly say that I have never experienced such a change from replacing any part on any vehicle I've ever owned. I've let 3 other K12 riders try the bike with the Ohlins and they also notice the change immediately. It is not a subtle change. Now I don't know how to react, praise Ohlins for making a terrific product or curse BMW for putting such a lousy shock on a $16k motorcycle. Jim In Sacramento Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:22:44 -0700 From: "Rob Lentini" Subject: BMW: re: K75S Suspension Dr. B asks: ==== Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:32:14 -0800 From: "Barry P. Blank, Ph.D." Subject: BMW: Re: BMW - K75S Suspension Prezzes, Now that I have the Ohlins Type 4 on my K75S as a rear spring/shock (and yes, it is everything I had hoped it would be), it certainly feels like it's time to pay attention to the front suspension. I had hoped to replace the standard fork springs, which now have 30K miles on them, with Ohlins springs. Well, it appears that they do not make springs for the newer models of the K75S because, I've been told, that the newer models have a different fork manufacturer. (Can anyone confirm this?) So, what do I do to improve the front forks to match up with my rear shock? Do I simply replace with BMW springs (I've been told that for my application they are progressively wound and are better than Progressive tm springs) or can someone suggest an alternative? Are there other issues which I should consider (beside experimenting with fork oil weight and volume - although recommendations in that area would be appreciated as well)? ==== Barry: To answer your questions requires questions from me: 1. What is your weight? 2. What complaints do you now have regarding the front end? The K75S "sport" fork is a very good unit. It is well damped and reasonably compliant. There is relatively little brake dive. However, if you are a light rider the Progressive Suspension 1136 fork springs will improve compliance, as will 5 weight fork oil laced with Dow-Corning Gear Gard Moly. I had this setup in my K75S and loved the results. If you are 180 lbs or heavier, I'd stick with the stock springs. Just be sure that preload "sag" is correctly set to 1/3 suspension travel (about 1.75" of static settling of the forks with you on the bike) and the fork oil is the stock 7.5 weight. Again, try the moly for superb compliance. In either of these setups, use 280cc of oil per side. best, Rob Lentini '94 R1100RS Tucson, AZ H 520-790-8865 W 520-295-6411 AMA, BMWRA, IOC, MSF Director, BMW Motorcycle Owners of America IT'S SPRING IN TUCSON!!! Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:57:40 -0600 (CST) From: Paul or Voni Glaves Subject: BMW: Fork Seals >Mine is not the first K12 to blow a fork seal. Dr. Curve says overfilling may >be the culprit. Im sure the temperature didnt help matters but tough shit... >None of my old Hondas ever blew a seal due to low temps (they just wore out). >My dealer hasnt gotten back with the offical story yet. Don't forget, that when the K series first came out in the mid '80s, they blew every fork seal in sight. From the factory, mine blew one at about 300 miles, the second at about 4,000 miles, the 3rd at about 8,000 miles and the last at 12,000 miles. By then, BMW had a redesigned seal and I put gaiters on the bike. No more seals and now at 230,000 miles. I think it's due for a routine change. Paul Glaves Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:14:10 -0600 (CST) From: gummikuhNoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com Subject: BMW: Fournales, Ohlins or Fox >Subject: BMW: Fornales, Ohlins, or Stock? > SNIP >Dear Will and new shocker, The French made Fournalas is a excellant unit >- --- but like comparing a Dunlop 491 to a ME33 Lazer --- its not even >remotly in the same league as a Ohlins. Best, > >Jim(Dr.Curve)Roche >jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu >high performance old twins >http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~jroche/index.html Jim, have you ever tried a Fournales shock? I'd like to hear your impressions and possibly what bike the Fournales were fitted to. BTW I understand that Fournales will go 80,000 miles before a rebuild, a bit more that the average Ohlins or fox unit by a factor of four, at least. Thanks for you input. Stephan