From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jun 1 22:35:54 1997 Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:09:28 -0400 From: csachs Organization: Prodigy Internet To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Snowflake recall Reply-To: csachs I read about that after I purchased my 1980/7. I was concerned so I asked my dealer whether my wheels were the improved version. He said they were. To identify the recalled flakes look to see if the wheels in question have webs straddling the hubs extending up the main spokes until they reach the cast-in cross braces (approx. 3"long). As far as the rears are concerned, I don't remember whether they were affected by the recall or not. My rear wheel is a drum type. Maybe you could advise me. Charlie Pgh, PA From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 2 16:04:59 1997 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:26:09 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu (jim roche) Subject: BMW: Snowflake Recall? Count The Spokes. Reply-To: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu (jim roche) > >Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 20:54:57 -0500 >From: LMA >Subject: BMW: wheel recall > >I keep hearing about a recall on "snow flake" wheels from this list. > >Two questions: > >Did this recall apply to my 81 R100RT? >How would I know if it had been done? > >Thanks in advance for any help! > >Mark Ayotte >Southington, CT. > >------ Dear Mark, easy to know. Count the spokes on your front wheel. If it has ten spokes it is original and one of the ones that was recalled. Best, Jim(Dr.Curve)Roche jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu high performance old twins http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~jroche/index.html From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jun 6 20:26:43 1997 From: "Rob Lentini" To: , "IBMWR" , "Oilhead" Subject: BMW: re: R1100RS Questions.... Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:58:39 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" Joe asks: ==== I've got a friend who's not on the list who is looking to buy a used R1100RS. He is quite concerned with issues such as transmissions and surging, as are most owners of early oilhead RS's. I told him I would try to find some information from fellow prezzes as to when the newer transmissions and throttle cables were implemented. ==== RS with VINs from 0312537 onwards have the new cable. ==== I know how to tell the new throttle cable, but is there any way to tell if the new transmission is on the bike? ==== '94s from 0311168 onwards have the updated trans ==== If a bike has the old transmission, and it's noisy, will BMW replace or repair it? ==== If under warranty, for sure. If not and with pressure, probably. ==== He's looking at a bike at a dealer, and the dealer is quite vague as to the transmission question. I personally recommended trying to find a 95 and paying a bit more than a 94....any advice I could pass along to him would be greatly recommended, especially in the area of service bulletins affecting early models. Thanks as usual to the usual suspects! ==== If it's VIN 1167 or older (lower number) it's a Beta. If it is, no big deal as long as updates were performed: trans, clutch, motronic computer for hard starting. '94 or '95 makes less difference than the VIN change. Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ (520) 790-8865 '94 R1100RS Three Flags 97 #205 MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA Candidate for BMWMOA Director "Let's RIDE more and politic LESS" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jun 6 21:59:24 1997 Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:43:12 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu (jim roche) Subject: BMW: Betas Were Different A Little (7 MPH) Reply-To: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu (jim roche) >If it's VIN 1167 or older (lower number) it's a Beta. If it is, no big >deal as long as updates were performed: trans, clutch, motronic computer >for hard starting. '94 or '95 makes less difference than the VIN change. > >Rob Lentini Dear Rob, don't forget the other difference. True Betas with the early transmission (be it original or replaced) are geared a full 7mph higher than their later brothers. They would (will) really run. Best, Jim(Dr.Curve)Roche jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu high performance old twins http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~jroche/index.html From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jun 6 22:06:42 1997 From: Wmt477NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:49:12 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: K1200RS Now Due After June 16th. Reply-To: Wmt477NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com There is a problem with the fan motor behind one of the radiators drawing too much power. BMWNA is sending a letter to all the names on the "Master Deposit List" (400+ names) to show their regret over the delay and to let us all know that we will be getting a free tank bag ($300 retail) . I quote from a fax sent to dealers: " We regret the delay in shipping this wonderful motorcycle, however it is imperative that it be delivered in perfect condition." Bravo! Who wants be involved in a stupid re-call? Fix it now! The tank bag is a real plum! Thank you BMWNA. Wm.Tayloe Middleburg,VA From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jun 8 23:42:26 1997 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:28:40 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: edge.edge.net: Host tull-ip237.edge.net [208.0.141.237] didn't use HELO protocol To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: bstewartNoSpam@NoSpamedge.net (Benton Kenning Stewart) Subject: BMW: Center Stand Problems ? Reply-To: bstewartNoSpam@NoSpamedge.net (Benton Kenning Stewart) While talking with a beemer mech. recently I was asked if my bike ('85 K100RT) still had the stock center stand on it. When I replied that I wasn't certain he stated that I needed to look into this. My questions now are: 1) What is the problem with the stock center stand? 2) What could happen if it isn't replaced? 3) How do I tell if the center stand is stock? 4) If I need a replacement for my center stand, where do I find one? ------------------------------------------------------------- B. Ken Stewart =================================== (at home) (at work - Pinnacle Health) bstewartNoSpam@NoSpamedge.net stewartkNoSpam@NoSpampie.org Winchester, TN Tullahoma, TN ------------------------------------------------------------- From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 9 14:40:21 1997 Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 14:08:41 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamfacteur.std.com From: Don Eilenberger Subject: BMW: RE: Center Stand Problems ? (K bikes) Cc: bstewartNoSpam@NoSpamedge.net (Benton Kenning Stewart) Reply-To: Don Eilenberger Benton asked: >Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:28:40 -0500 (CDT) >From: bstewartNoSpam@NoSpamedge.net (Benton Kenning Stewart) >Subject: BMW: Center Stand Problems ? > >While talking with a beemer mech. recently I was asked if my bike ('85 >K100RT) still had the stock center stand on it. When I replied that I >wasn't certain he stated that I needed to look into this. My questions now >are: 1) What is the problem with the stock center stand? 2) What could >happen if it isn't replaced? 3) How do I tell if the center stand is stock? >4) If I need a replacement for my center stand, where do I find one? >- ------------------------------------------------------------- > B. Ken Stewart Ken, the answers: 1. They break. Usually while putting the bike up on the stand, causing the bike to fall, causing $$$ damage. It could also fall on you - causing painful damage. 2. It could break. 3. Tough one - there are at least 3 iteration of the early curved leg K stands I know of.. each supposed to fix the problem.. the earliest ones have V shaped gussets between the crossbrace and the legs themselves. If the welding on these gussets completely go around the gussets (no openings) - you still have the original stand. Try two by BMW is a stand where the gussets have openings at each end. It's fairly obvious when you see them what I mean, but the welding doesn't go entirely around the gussets. Try three is slightly different again, but someone else will have to remind me what it was.. I have try two on my K100RT. Finally with the addition of the catalytic converter on the later K's - BMW did away with the curved leg stands and went to a straight leg model. These appear much stronger, and are not subject to the bending force the curved stands have when the bike is being put up on them. I have heard (no personal experience) that the straight leg stand can be put on the older models. Things that tend to hasten the stands breaking: 1. Riding off them instead of lowering the bike to the sidestand and then taking off 2. Playing acrobatics with the stands - ie, rotating the bike around the stand while on the stand (some people do this to turn their bike around) 3. Sitting on the bike while on the stand. 4. Neglect - it will probably still break, but keeping it painted and rust-free will help, plus you may spot the crack forming before it fails (I check mine periodically.. usually at each oil change). 4. Where do you find a replacement - well, for a new one, the dealer is probably the place to start. On stands that HAVE broken, apparently BMW will usually replace them at no cost.. they will not pay for damages caused by the bike falling over. If you have one starting to crack it would seem opportune to see if your dealer can get you a gratis replacement. For used ones - there are lots of used parts places around.. I'd suggest Blue Moon, Eurotech, Bob's BMW.. If anyone HAS replaced a curved stand with the later straight leg stand - I'm sure we'd all be interested in hearing about it. This could make it a fact instead of a rumor.. ================================== Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com ================================== From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jun 10 20:34:44 1997 From: "Rob Lentini" To: , "IBMWR" , "Oilhead" Subject: BMW: re: New throttle cable for R11RS Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:07:10 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" Kevin asks: ==== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:25:43 -0400 From: "Kevin Green" Subject: BMW: New throttle cable for R11RS > He is quite concerned with issues such as transmissions and surging, as are >most owners of early oilhead RS's. I told him I would try to find some >information from fellow prezzes as to when the newer transmissions and >throttle cables were implemented. I know how to tell the new throttle cable, >but is there any way to tell if the new transmission is on the bike? If a How can you tell if you have the new cable. Why was it necessary. Is it installed for free or must there be some symptons. Any info is appreciated. Regards, Kevin Green 1995 R11RS ==== Your RS has the new cable if the VIN is 0312537 and onwards. It could previously have been replaced under service bulleting #2748 to cure surging. The older cable has a lot more friction that can contribute to synchronization problems. This is a FREE update and you need only complain about surging and mention the service bulletin. Your affected VIN must also have under 18K miles to qualify. Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ (520) 790-8865 '94 R1100RS Three Flags 97 #205 MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA Candidate for BMWMOA Director "Let's RIDE more and politic LESS" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 11 02:30:53 1997 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:15:24 -0800 To: Jerome Cook From: kariNoSpam@NoSpamcalbmwtriumph.com (Kari Prager) Subject: Re: BMW: /6 rocker arm endplay Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: kariNoSpam@NoSpamcalbmwtriumph.com (Kari Prager) >My 74 R75/6 was doing the same thing. >Lap at Quality Auto & Cycle repair showed me that mine could be >eliminated by squeezing the two mounting blocks toward each other as you >tighten the nuts that hold them on the threaded studs. >I hope that I explained that properly. >If it is sideways play that you feel(front to rear) maybe this will help >you. I read about shims and Lap made it so simple. >I hope that works for you. >cheers Jerry Cook > > >On Tue, 10 Jun 1997, snip Dear Jerry & Josh, If you have a '74 /6, check and see if your cylinder head nuts are the hardened type. Lots of '74s had soft head nuts from the factory, and we still find them on bikes even today. It is easy to spot - the nut will he mushroomed out around the threads on the bottom, where it rests agains the rocker arm block. The lack of a flat surface makes it very hard to keep the rocker arms in proper adjustment for endplay. The fix is to buy some new /6 headnuts - they are all OK now. K All the best, Kari [Kari Prager, California BMW Triumph, 2490 Old Middlefield Way, Mountain View, CA 94043 415.966.1183/966 8340 FAX, E-mail to , use for orders or shop business. Our website is at www.calbmwtriumph.com] *** Summer Party - July 19th. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 19 01:18:51 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 21:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by WIZARD.FIRN.EDU From: "Gregory D. Pink" Subject: BMW: Unannounced recall: R1100RT centerstand mounting bracket To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com, diazNoSpam@NoSpamcae.cig.mot.com, mickNoSpam@NoSpamwestworld.com, EXLAXATCNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Reply-To: "Gregory D. Pink" Hey folk, This might be for bikes other than the RT, but BMW is replacing the centerstand mounting bracket with one which protects the sidestand switch. It takes about an hour to do this and is no charge. Later...... Greg "Bounce" Pink Reindeer Riders BOOF-(it's time to accept my advancing age and decreasing intellect) Beeline Beemer BMWOCF IBA SOD #4 *************************************************************************** * "I ride, therefore I am." ***** R1100RT->Descartes-The Continent Killer * * ----------------------------------------------------------------------- * *Greg Pink->The Pink-man ----------------The Continental Breakfast Killer * ***********************pink_gNoSpam@NoSpampopmail.firn.edu **************************** From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 19 15:47:57 1997 From: MTCollNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 15:33:48 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: R Centerstand Recall "Unannounced" Reply-To: MTCollNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com In your post, you stated: I wrote to BMW NA a month ago about the centerstand switch recall (for the RS). Broke it about six or eight months ago. Replaced it myself with no help from BMW NA, so I still have the old type on the bike. I asked them if they'd replace the one that's installed now. Also asked if they'd consider paying for the one I replaced. BMW NA has a perfect score. What I got is "None of the above". No help with getting me a new one; no help with the one I replaced; no answer to my letter. My letter to them is sitting with the warranty request for reimbursement of the broken brake master cylinder (three months ago). I got a post regarding another problem I had that stated that BMWNA told an R11RT owner that surging and backfiring were a normal part of owning a two-cylinder bike. Do I sense a pattern in the attitude of BMWNA? Have they come to the point where they have forgotten the generations of motorcycle owners who have pulled their chestnuts out of the fire over the years, in favor of the Johnny-come-lately cage buyers? Have they gone the way of GM and other companies, who seem to have the attitude: "We got your money, sucker, now don't bother us"? Granted, BMW makes tons more money on cars than bikes, but what ever happened to corporate pride? Is BMW becoming just another American company? But, damn, we love our bike! Michael Colloton, Debbie Smith R11RT (Red Wolf/Baby, depending on whom you talk to) Atlanta, Ga. R11RT Atlanta, Ga. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 19 18:39:54 1997 X-Sent-Via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ From: "Rob Lentini" To: "IBMWR" , "Oilhead" Subject: BMW: R1100 spark plug wrench Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 15:22:34 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" I've received word from two different riders that their OEM tool kit spark plug wrench will not fit the orifice through to the spark plugs. Others may want to check theirs out prior to REALLY needing it on the road. I suppose this would be a warranty replacement in or out of the time/mileage limit. One would hope so! :) regards, Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ (520) 790-8865 (H), (520) 295-6411 (B) '94 R 1100 RS Three Flags 97 #205 MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA BMWMOA Board Member "Elect" "LET'S RIDE MORE AND POLITIC LESS" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 22 22:31:53 1997 Posted-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:13:01 -0500 (CDT) From: "Adam Wolkoff" To: "Sobczyk, Joe" , bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:13:04 +0000 Subject: Re: BMW: 600 Mile Check Up Reply-To: "Adam Wolkoff" > work is done as specified by the factory, they can't void the > warranty. It's part of federal law. The name of the act that applies > escapes me, but I can Its called the Moss-Magnusson Warrany Act. While the manufacturer can't make you use their dealers, there are practical reasons for doing so, as others have pointed out. Warranty adjustments (and post-warranty fixes) will be much smoother. I have heard others complain that BMWNA has prooven difficult when asked to stand behind items previously worked on by non-authorized dealers. I've never experienced this myself, however. Further, Authorized shops will likely have the special service tools required on the newer bikes. YMMV, etc. Regards, Adam Wolkoff Saint Paul, Minnesota awolkoffNoSpam@NoSpamnospam.visi.com http://www.visi.com/~awolkoff/FeBUTT.html St. Paul, MN LoRent Racing--Ironbutt 97 #35 *Sponsorship Opportunities Available* From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 22 22:32:57 1997 From: "ynotfix" To: "Sobczyk, Joe" Cc: "bmwmc" Subject: Re: BMW: 600 Mile Check Up Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:09:42 -0700 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "ynotfix" Joe; Having had two new Yamahas, and a Honda that never were touched by other than myself, for all initial maint. and warranty claims were necessary on one Yam., and the Hon.I think you are right. I documented my work, and kept the parts receipts, and the factory never said boo about the claims. They would not pay labor if I did the warr. work only if their dealers did the work but pay they did. Sorry I do not know the legal ruling that covers this situation but I'm sure that it has'nt changed in the 3-4 years since. Of course the dealers attitude may not reflect this little known loophole, they are the gods of nuts and bolts, right? Tony Angco '96 K1100RS, '96 Triumph Trident 900 '84 Honda XLV750R M/C Krazy " If I can just get off of this (DAMN) L.A. freeway...." Thanks to Guy Clark for the quote. ---------- > From: Sobczyk, Joe > To: 'bmw list' > Subject: Re: BMW: 600 Mile Check Up > Date: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 9:22 PM > > > > > A new owner wrote: > ><< I've just bought an R850R and the dealer is more expensive and farther > >away, outside the city and none of it is covered by warranty. My previous > mechanic > > in town is not a BMW only guy, but does work on them, told me he could do > > it. But the BMW dealer's mecahnic is not too subtly suggesting that a > > non-BMW can't do the necessary work for this all important check-up. Is > this > > true, please help! >> > > To which was replied: > >I was under the impression that you had to have your service book stamped > and > >dated by an authorized bmw dealer every time you have your scheduled > service > >done. Seems to me that now doing this could have dire consequences as far > as > >your warranty goes??? Am I right, anyone???? Steve > > > I believe that the law in these United States sez that a manufacturer cannot > force you to use their dealership for service work. As long as the specified > work is done as specified by the factory, they can't void the warranty. It's > part of federal law. The name of the act that applies escapes me, but I can > look it up if someone really needs to know. Any of the list lawyers want to > chime in? > > Joe Sobczyk > Washington DC > 81 R65 85 K100RS > SobczykNoSpam@NoSpamWashpost.com > The opinions are my own, etc. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Aug 5 02:57:26 1997 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 22:44:14 -0800 To: roozbehNoSpam@NoSpamwco.com (Roozbeh Chubak) From: kariNoSpam@NoSpamcalbmwtriumph.com (Kari Prager) Subject: Re: BMW: 600 mile Dealer Drop Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: kariNoSpam@NoSpamcalbmwtriumph.com (Kari Prager) >At 6:15 PM 8/3/97, rwmundayNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com wrote: >> >> >>Each case should be judged on its own merits. The bike in question had >>not >>successfully completed its manufacturer's mandated 600 mile checkup. >>This was >>essentially a new motorcycle. > >Nope! It was not a new motorcycle. It had been sold as new, licensed and >registered for road use and had accumulated 600 miles. Definitely not a new >motorcycle. > >I know there are a lot of well-intentioned people advising the victim of >the lift-fallen motorcycle that he should settle for nothing short of a new >bike because he is entitled to it. Since this will *never* happen, the >owner of the bike will feel cheated out of what he had coming to him (i.e. >a new bike) and this will permanently poison his relationship with his bike >and with his dealer. > >After my last post on the subject, I had an opportunity to discuss this >with a BMW dealer. He said as a dealer, short of giving the owner a new >motorcycle, they would do everything in their power to make him happy. If >the ownwr of the damaged bike was still unhappy with the dealer's final >offer, he would be referred to the dealer's insurance company. Since the >insurance company is much larger than the dealer -- and much less likely to >want to keep the bike owner happy -- what the insurance company will offer >as settlement will be nowhere near as attractive as that offered by the >dealer. > > >Regards, >Roozbeh > Dear Roozbeh, Richard, and list friends, As a dealer, I'll offer you some candid disclosures. We have dropped three bikes off raised lifts in the last 18 years, and have had at least two or three accidents during test rides, and several tipovers moving bikes around in our parking lot or even in the service department. Only one of these was a total and in that case we provided the customer with a new bike, with the assistance of our insurance company. Unfortunately, even with great care and diligence, accidents can happen. (Sorry, JJ; I haven't forgotten, either)... Two of the lift incidents were clearly the result of carelessness and failure to follow procedure on the part of a technician, the third was not so cut-and-dried. The costs of repair were shared by the technician and the shop, (it was a different technician each time), to the proportion that I held them negligent in disregarding established procedure vs. experiencing a failure of a piece of service equipment or making a plausible error of judgment...). (BTW, in our handbook it states that company policy requires the offender to crawl across the service department floor towards the customer on his belly, sobbing and moaning, rubbing clutch dust and old wheel bearing grease in his hair, and attempting to cut off a little finger or two with a rusty feeler gauge in expiation...) Well, maybe we don't go that far, but each event was taken extremely seriously, and one of the three cases resulted in the conclusion of that technician's career as a tech, so far as I know, permanently. I believe that in every one of these situations we ended up with a settlement which was fair and acceptable to the owners, and they have continued to be customers of the dealership. Accidents with customer bikes are every dealer's nightmare and a truly horrible situation for all parties; in our lift-drops, since the damage was exclusively cosmetic, we repaired the motorcycles to better-than-before condition with new parts, and did everything we could to be sure the customer was satisfied with the result. I can't remember all three cases in complete detail, but I think I offered the owners bikes to ride while the repairs were in progress. Knowing very little about David Godfrey's extent of damages, but extrapolating from what I have seen in our own cases, I think I would be unlikely to replace the bike with another bike if the damages involved were strictly cosmetic. There is no technical reason a bike cannot be repaired to as-new or better-than-new condition, and the belief that no bike can ever be as good as new after repair is just irrational, IMHO. This is not to devalue the shock and inconvenience that David has suffered, however. In a similar case, for example, we might offer the option of a special color change, or some other valuable consideration that we think is likely to appeal to this particular owner - this would be our own investment (not the insurance coverer's) towards the forgiveness and future good will of the customer. Nevertheless, as Roozbeh points out, legally the bike ceases to be a new bike the minute we send the registration off to the DMV and report the sale to BMWNA - actual mileage really has very little to do with it... Viewed strictly from a legal standpoint the dealer would be following the generally accepted practices of the automotive insurance industry and his own liability insurer to repair rather than replace a bike if the damage was moderate. In the unfortunate event that the customer were to bring suit, it would be the responsibility of the dealer's insurance company (to whom he has been paying premiums for years) to defend him, not the dealer's own personal attorney. I've only read a few posts on this case (Mac, the mighty Powerbook crashed on Saturday, just fixed it tonight...) and this is a brief synopsis of some of our least shining moments. IMHO every case is unique and ought to be negotiated, by the dealer, the customer and the insurers, if needed, until -all- parties agree on the fairness of the settlement. k Regards, Kari [Kari Prager, California BMW Triumph, 2490 Old Middlefield Way, Mountain View, CA 94043 415.966.1183/966 8340 FAX, E-mail to , use for orders or shop business. Our website is at www.calbmwtriumph.com] *** "Was BMW tut, ist wohlgetan..." *** From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Aug 8 03:41:19 1997 Date: Thu, 7 Aug 97 21:21:49 UT From: "LARRY WILBERS" To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: K12RS safety recall alert! Reply-To: "LARRY WILBERS" X-No-Archive: yes The dealership notified me today that the hand levers for the clutch and front brake need some additional adjustment. Seems that the levers get loose--don't know if they actually fall off. Takes about ten minutes to get the problem fixed. Larry Columbus, Ohio From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Aug 11 17:04:30 1997 To: bmwmc From: Jon Dinsmore/PicTel Date: 11 Aug 97 15:59:43 EDT Subject: BMW: BMW Warranty Update Reply-To: Jon Dinsmore/PicTel X-No-Archive: yes Thought I'd update the list with the results of the warranty issue regarding the starter problem on my bike. Apparently the 1994 K11RS I bought new in April of 1995 was originally bought by the dealer as a demo in May of 1994. It seems dealers get some kind of discount on bikes they buy as demos. Anyhow the bike stayed in the crate up until the time I bought it, and it was delivered to me with 3 miles on the odometer. But since it was bought as a demo the warranty started on the date is was delivered to the dealer - almost a full year before I bought it. Which means now the bike is now out of warranty. BMW says there is nothing they can do. They have agreed to authorize the servicing dealer (not the selling dealer) to replace the starter. But after that any future problems I have with the bike are between me and the selling dealer. The salesman from which I bought the bike claims he was not aware the bike was originally bought as a demo. The dealership he works at is part of a 3 dealer corporation, and the bikes are purchased from BMW at the corporate level, and not at the dealer level. He has offered to reimburse me for the money I have spent so far, and to either fix any additional problems for free or reimburse me if I choose to have them fixed somewhere else (which I definitely would do). I am happy that BMW is paying to replace my starter, although I do not understand why they say there is nothing else they can do. And I suppose I should be happy the dealer has agreed to pay for any future repairs. Still I'm not comfortable with having to front the money for the repairs, then waiting for the selling dealer reimburse me. (I would be even less comfortable having this dealer work on my bike - this is not the first problem I have had with them.) I think that the best thing right now is just to accept these terms. I am certainly not 100% satisfied though. I do not understand why I am not entitled to the same 3 year warranty everyone who buys a new BMW receives. If there is an issue between BMW and the dealer then the issue is between them, and I do not see why I have to pay for it. I am not ready to swear off BMWs yet, but my confidence in them has taken a big drop. Thanks to all those who offered some insight into what might be going on. Jon Dinsmore jdinsmorNoSpam@NoSpampictel.com From nigeltNoSpam@NoSpamliffe.com Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:01:21 +0100 Subject: BMW: K1100 brake reservoir I don't know if I posted this before, so forgive me if this is a repeat. Out riding, I noticed a spot of fluid on the right hand fairing pocket. Pretty soon, there was a regular drip, so I pulled over to see what it was. There was brake fluid dripping from the reservoir on the handle bars. It didn't look bad, so I rode home and then wiped it all up very carefully. Fortunately, none had dripped on any of the paint work. I took the bike round to my dealer who told me it was a known fault and that there were no servicable parts in the reservoir. The brake lever and reservoir are a complete unit and you can't even just replace the seals. Estimated bill, nearly #400 ($600). I duly fainted, but revived a bit when I was told there was a chance BMW would pay for the parts and it was only a half hour job. The dealer, completed the work and I stumped up the cash because I can't afford to be without my bike. A few days later I got a call from the dealer saying that BMW would pay even though I was a couple of weeks over the three year limit for such payments. So, be warned, if you notice seepage round the brake lever/reservoir area, do something about if fast. It gets rapidly worse with every pull of the brake lever and I know I was lucky to still have intact paint. Nice one BMW for paying for it though. Nigel From "Dennis S. Clinefelter" Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:47:34 -0700 Subject: BMW: Recent dealings with BMW, NA Hi Folks, I recently got back onto my '91 K75S after waiting for 4 months for a part to be shipped from Germany. What had happened to start all this off was I had a "friend" move my bike from Virginia to California while I was stationed in La Maddelena, Italy. When I got back to the States and saw the bike I was quite pissed, but considering the price I paid (free) I guess I couldn't complain to much. Both upper fairing pieces were broken, the right belly pan was cracked, center stand studs broken off and the right turn signal was cracked. I took it into the local dealer and asked for all the cosmetics to be repaired as well as get the bike running after being in storage for several years. This is were the problems with BMW began. The left upper fairing was backordered with no estimated shipping date. After a couple of months of incredible weather I was really getting tight, and the part's manager at the dealership understood it, as I am now living in Oregon and we only have a few months of perfect riding weather. (BTW, I have ridden in rain and snow, but I prefer not to.) The PM talked to the BMW, NA parts group and was told that the part was backordered, like we didn't know that already, so the PM called again and spoke to someone else who took the time to get into the BMW, AG parts computer only to find out that the desired piece (left upper fairing, purple) was no longer carried, and was discontinued just after the PM placed the order for my bike. About this time I was fed up with the way BMW was handling this and wrote to BMW, NA expressing my thoughts about the direction the company was heading in if this was the type of stuff they would allow to happen. Well, I received a nice letter from Pat Raymond letting me know that my letter was being forwarded to the regional office and they would look into it. I never heard from the regional office, and from the impression I got from the PM, neither had the dealership. An unpainted fairing piece finally made it to the shop, where they then had to try and find the right paint to match the bike, as the original paint was no longer allowed to be manufactured thanks to the EPA. We were lucky enough to be able to find some of the original paint here in the area and I was soon back up on my bike. Somewhere during all of this I wrote Pat Raymond again I let him know about the computer problems his company was having and the response I got this time was most satisfactory, as BMW, NA decided to pick up the cost of the fairing piece that caused the hold up. Maybe I settled for too little, as I was still without a bike for the entire summer, but I was happy just to be able to get back on my bike. And I am happy that BMW was a least willing to pick up the cost of the fairing, they could have played large conglomerate and ignored the pleas of an unhappy motorcycle rider. Dennis Clinefelter '91 BMW K75S From Peter Biddle Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:16:09 -0700 Subject: BMW: Continuing Saga (tm) of Der Cruiser und zer Rear Signal Lites So Ride West (Seattle) will replace the whole light assembly. According to Brandon there, the reason the tail light assembly is made out of plastic is because the original metal one caused too much flexing in the rear fender. So, off with it and on with a plastic one, rather than a major re-design late in the product cycle. Too bad - the plastic one is a flimsy part compared to the rock-solid rest of the bike. There is a fix for existing lights which are showing signs of this problem. (Symptom: Lights fall off, hang by wire, mess up paint and look real friggin' dorky.) Don't know what it is yet, but I'm in line for it on the new part when it arrives, and they are picking up the re-paint as well. BTW - The cruiser license plate bracket takes non-std length mounting screws (need longer ones), so you can't use the reflective ones with the thumb screw and the spring, unless you pull the rubber mounting brackets off. I used two 6 mm hex screws, like the two on it already. Peter +++++ From roozbehNoSpam@NoSpamwco.com (Roozbeh Chubak) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:00:06 -0800 Subject: Re: BMW: Tech Question---R11GS--Oil seeping around Cylinder head to Cylinder barrell joint! At 5:12 AM 9/10/97, Frank Murtagh wrote: >OK all you techies out there; > My GS is seeping oil around the vicinity of the head gasket and >probably from the various other head areas that have o-rings etc on the >1100 boxer motor. > My questions are thus: >1-Do I re-torque the heads like I used to do on my ole style boxer. I am not a techy, but I play one on TV. BMW has had problems with head gaskets on the R1100GS. (I know 'cause I had to have my right cylinder head gasket replaced under warranty last week after it went south.) They have changed the material so replacement head gaskets are more durable. Regards, Roozbeh From BEEMERHILL Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:55:30 -0500 Subject: BMW: BMWNA at Fredericksberg ... Fellow Presidents: I was fortunate enough to visit BMW North America at Sturgis this year, and visited with BMW Staff person Marvin. He just wanted to THANK the folks who were at the MOA National for their graciousness this year. It happens that a great number of rally-goers took the time and effort to thank them for coming to Texas and for bringing the Cruiser. He said that there were other places that had requested BMW's presence (I believe there was a Honda Hoot?) but decided to support us instead. I write this now because I believe that BMW NA is scheduled for the RA National next week. Please take a moment to tell the top brass that we appreciate them coming out for us. They don't "HAVE-TA" come to our rallies. My personal experiences with BMW NA have been fantastic - they have made it possible for me to blast around the Daytona Speedway TWICE - once on my K75 and again this year on my new R850. They replaced the whole rear end of my K75 after my 5th driveshaft went on it (at 120K). And they have made it possible for me to drool, test drive, and otherwise handle the new bikes without saleman pressure. BMW North America - if you monitor this list ... thanks. See you in Fontana! Sue Rihn-Manke BMW-MOA Ambassador Liaison, BMW RA, AMA, Wisconsin BMW Motorycle Club, Pirate of the Conch Republic Autobahn Society, and Rolling Brocolli Rider with a bevy of Beemers in the garage and a few other types of bikes to keep life interesting .... 60 to 68.4 mph, according to BMW NA. (60 + 6 + 2.4 =3D 68.4). =AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB= =BB=A7=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB =20 Cracked Rear Frame - RS only Service Bulletin # 2722=09 Issued 10/23/96 On some RS model, the rear frame can not hold the top case or other weight without cracking. If the rear frame is changed, the bike also may need a rear seat change. The following serial numbers have been identified: 031001 (?) - 0312503 There is no mention of replacing the rear frame if it has not cracked. See your dealer. =AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB= =BB=A7=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB =20 Turn Signal On - all models Service Bulletin # 2758 Issued 11/5/96 If your turn signals remain on after you turn the ignition off, see your dealer. No serial numbers have been identified and no specific parts numbers have been listed, but the problem has been identified on 1995 and earlier models. =AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB= =BB=A7=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB =20 Low-Friction Throttle Cable - all models Service Bulletin #2748 Issued= 7/3/96 Many oilhead owners have complained of throttle synchronization problems and resultant engine vibration. Part of the problem may be attributed to the original spec sticky throttle cable which made repeatability of throttle body synch difficult. A low friction throttle cable is available free under warranty if your R1100 has under 18,000 miles on it and has a VIN (vehicle identification number) lower than the following number: R1100RS 0312537 R1100GS 0381479 R1100R 6379238 R1100RT 0440499 R850 from start of prod. According to Rob Lentini, any bike with less than 18,000 miles and a VIN under the above should DEFINITELY get this new cable! Frank Stevens, V.P. of BMW NA technical, mentioned this at the 1995 MOA National Rally at Morganton, so any dealer should know about it ! =AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB= =BB=A7=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB =20 Pinging - all models Service Bulletin # 2738=09 Issued 4/4/96 This information is avaiable at: http://www.teleport.com/~alohamc/si2738.htm =20 =AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB= =BB=A7=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB Oil Control Valve - R1100/850 Models Service Bulletin #2740=09 Issued 4/3/96 This information is available at:=20 http://www.teleport.com/~alohamc/si2740.htm =20 =20 =AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB= =BB=A7=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB=A7=AB =BB=A5=AB =BB =20 Note: The complete service bulletins have not been reprinted and, in some cases, comments have been added in effort to assist the rider. Please check with a reliable dealer if you have questions, and ask to see their service bulletin so that you have all of the information. I would like to thank Frank Stevens and Daniel E. Browning of BMW NA for recognizing these= problems. Copyright(c) 1997, Stephen Karlan (Dali Meeow) in Miami, FL. = =20 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:25:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gregory D. Pink" Subject: BMW: Warranty Problems-try DO It can sometimes be a hassle to get warranty work done. I've stumbled across a technique that hasn't failed me yet. This all started when I went to have the o-ring replaced on the oil fill cap on my RT. Everyone knows that these things leak by now. Well, assuming that this would not be a problem under warranty, but not worrying about it, I went to BMW of Orlando for some routine service. Upon mentioning the oil leak problem, I was told that this was no longer a warranty issue, but rather a wear item. I wasn't concerned because of the low price of the item, so I dismissed the problem. On the way to the shop, I stopped off at a local grocery store and picked up a few doughnuts to nibble on. As I pulled the bag of doughnuts out, I noticed that Larry, the service manager was starting to salivate so I offered him a doughnut. For no apparent reason he said, "Uh, you know what, I think that o-ring probably should be covered under warranty afterall." Wow, this was very interesting and I filed this tidbit of information away for future reference. A few weeks later I had a problem with the map case on my BMW tankbag. Since the bag was almost brand new, I again assumed it would be a warranty issue. It had been a nasty, rainy day in Florida and as the clouds broke a rainbow appearred. At the end of the rainbow, I could make out a Krispee-Kreme doughnut shop. Was this a sign? Maybe I should take a box just in case. When I arrived at the dealer to have some other work done we talked about the map case. I was assured that it was a warranty item and Larry went back to adjust my valves. About 15 minutes later he came back and told me that he couldn't give me anymore warranty service because I had messed with my TPS. This had voided all future warranty service. Sure, I was pissed, but then I remembered the doughnuts. I took my map case and laid it on top of the Krispee-Kreme box mentioning, "Are you sure there's nothing you can do about the map case?" I felt like a mafiaso offering a bribe to the mayor. IT WORKED!!! I was onto something here. From now on, I would refer to this as DO (pronounce dough) for a Doughnut Override on questionable warranty issues. But was I doing the correct thing by stuffing these fellows with doughnuts. That couldn't be too healthy. Couldn't I bring in something healthier and accomplish the same thing. I tried several other food groups, including a fruit plate, but these didn't have the same effect. Doughnuts were the magical fruit. About a month later my saddlebag fell off and I couldn't find the darn thing. This was an expensive item and I didn't think that the usual Krispee Kremes would do. So, I stopped at Dunkin' Doughnuts and got a free saddlebag including scuff protectors!!! This is great. It even got to the point where the dealer was telling me what kind of doughnut job it was. For small items, a couple would do. For larger items, one, or even two, boxes of Dunkin' Doughnuts would have to be bought. A new tranny might require a box of eclairs or other specialty doughnuts. So, my secret is out and you're welcome to use it. Since I've got such high mileage on my bike and only have 1 year left on the warranty, I felt that I should move closer to a Dunkin' Doughnut shop for future Do's. Those of you who live in other countries might want to adjust these suggestions. For example, in England, you might want to try Fish and Chips instead. Germany would require Black Forest Cake, while in Japan, sushi should be your choice. Good luck. Greg "Bounce" Pink Reindeer Riders BOOF-(it's time to accept my advancing age and decreasing intellect) Beeline Beemer BMWOCF IBA SOD #4 *************************************************************************** * "I ride, therefore I am." ***** R1100RT->Descartes-The Continent Killer * * ----------------------------------------------------------------------- * *Greg Pink->The Pink-man ----------------The Continental Breakfast Killer * ***********************pink_gNoSpam@NoSpampopmail.firn.edu **************************** Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:56:43 -0600 From: "Rob Lentini" Subject: BMW: Re: Slipping transmission on R Could be the torque compensator spring on the trans input shaft. A weakened spring can cause the compensator cam to turn 180 degrees for a split second. This is warrantable. Rob Lentini Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:21:10 -0500 From: "Ted T. Andersen" Subject: BMW: R11GS gearbox slipping... maybe not although i don't doubt there is a transmission issue, i'll offer this up = fwiw. i have spewed some comments that i kinda wish i could take back = (i do appreciate it bmwna), but hope my experience may save someone else = some time. 30k miles - started "surging" under heavy load (upsetting suspension = in the corners... kinda like bucking) 30k - 60k (5/96 - 7/97), over five months of bike in the shop, me = shopping for a replacement. things replaced during this period: throttle cables/synch fuel pump fuel pressure regulator temperature sensor, and every other sensor injectors throttle bodies (worn out butterfly plate bushing) oxygen sensor computer =09 rings, valves throttle bodies (again... this time '97 upgrade) and finally hall effect crank pickup the crank trigger was replaced because the bike tended to die at idle = when hot. the bike still dies at idle sometimes, but THE BUCKING IS = GONE!!!! (i live with blipping the throttle at stoplights.... but = beware, it has been seen to give graham county's finest a chubby!) hope this helps. PS - after 5 months of WANTING to find a replacement, i came to the = conclusion that there is only one replacement for the gs. another gs. - -----Original Message----- From: Don Lescoulie [SMTP:donlesNoSpam@NoSpamSierraNet.Net] Sent: Sun 28 Sep, 97 09:47 To: bmw-gsNoSpam@NoSpammicapeak.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com; keenerNoSpam@NoSpamsierranet.net Subject: BMW: Yikes! R11GS gearbox slipping ... brief power loss in 3rd or 4th gear, I'm not sure which, between = 5,500 and 6500 rpm under heavy acceleration. ... almost as if the engine was cutting off... Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:06:13 -0500 From: Jay Wassall Subject: Re: BMW: Re: Gas flap Clarence Dold wrote: > > Geoff Adams has an earlier perspective... > > > The earliest K's (non California spec) didn't have this flap stuff and I > > have no problem filling mine quite full. Never leaks or drips anywhere > > and I often use my sidestand. > > Do you have a vent hose that exits the tank (not the overflow hose that is > under the cap, but actually outside the tank from a gasoline perspective)? > If you don't have the vent, then you should be able to hear the venting > assembly in your gas cap whistle a little when it releases pressure. > > -- > --- > Clarence A Dold - doldNoSpam@NoSpamnetwork.rahul.net > - Pope Valley & Napa CA. Be careful you do not pinch the hose when you put the tank back on. I did and the pressure from the fuel pump made the sides of the tank cave in. BMW had a retrofit to remove the hose and replace it with a little plastic can to catch the drips that came off the nipple from the bottle of the tank. No more hose problems. - -- Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:27:28 -0500 From: Jon Zurell Subject: Re: BMW: Re: dealers closing At 12:11 AM 11/22/97 -0800, you wrote: > >Joe.DilleNoSpam@NoSpamfrco.com wrote: >> >> Yes, I too would be ineterested in e-mail addresses to voice my >> opinion to the BMW brass. Anyone have them? > >I think e-mail is all too easy to delete or worse, it can be filtered >out and never even appear on screen. Letters or even postcards create a >visual tool that someone at corporate could haul into a board meeting >and dump on the table in front of the marketing idiots. :-) > >A 4"x6" photo of you on your Beemer (or next to your *collection* of >Beemers) makes an excellent postcard. Apply text, address, and postage. >Proof of money spent on their products, parts, and service and a strong >hint of future money to be spent. > >Does anyone have a good address to get past the flunkies and to somebody >who could make a difference? >-- > John E. Petty >New Orleans, La. > 1983 R100RT > > Vice President Motorcycle Group BMWNA 300 Chestnut Ridge Road Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07675 But good luck, the last time I wrote I received a very polite reply saying, in essence, BMW is the greatest bike ever made and there are no defects except for one and their cohorts in Germany were working on the problem and my local dealer would be the first to know...been a over a year and they still have not come across with any kind of solution as the dealer keeps asking the rep. They are not very customer responsive and apparently are not going to get any better. Jon Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 00:27:33 -0700 From: Ira Agins Subject: Re: BMW: The Future of US BMW Dealerships? Just to throw a little more light on the situation, the following is a post to the LD Riders list by Jan Cutler, co-owner of Reno BMW: >BMW Motorcycle dealers were apprised that BMWNA would install motorcycle >dealerships with autos in selected US markets where an independent >motorcycle dealership was not available or viable. Too, we were >notified that there would be no barriers to combined dealerships. There >has not been, however, any preemptive move on the part of BMWNA to close >dealerships in good standing or to require the combination of >motorcycle/auto. > >BMWNA has launched a Dealer Image Enchancement Program that is designed >to assist dealers in upgrading their facilities and establishing some >baseline requirements. They have given dealers ample opportunity and >assistance to bring forth cohesive and progressive plans to achieve the >requirements of Image Enhancement. When I look at what the BMW >architect proposed for our business, I was pleased that it paralleled >our own ideas as well as adding some unique suggestions and source >materials. BMWNA paid for the assessment and upgrade plans and they >will assist dealers with signage, displays etc. These upgrades will >occur on a priority basis over the next year or so. > >Overall, I believe customers will be better served by dealerships that >offer better presentations, improved facilities, upgraded diagnostic >equipment, improved employee training, etc. For those dealers that wish >not to participate, BMWNA can properly assert its option to terminate >the dealer's contract. > >Over the past ten years BMW has brought to market some outstanding, >innovative and advanced products. They are very serious about the US >market and have instituted numerous programs to help dealers realize the >market potential of their region. Some of these programs have seemed a >tad bit autocratic, no pun suggested, however, they have helped little >dealers like us see the light and make a conscious decision to get on >board or be left behind. The net result will be improved service and >products for customers, improved profitability for dealers and increased >market share. > >jec Cheers! - --------------------------------- Ira Agins | Santa Fe, New Mexico USA | Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:28:25 -0500 (EST) From: MilesMilNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Subject: Cascade BMW: Sat. Nite Live! 6:26 a.m. Monday, As I sit her writing this, I'm munching on a Murray Lender's bagel with fat-free (Betsy's influence) Philadelphia cream cheese. So please excuse any bagel crumbs that fall out on your key-board if you are reading this. I guess fat-free is o.k., since you can't get really get good bagels outside the east coast anyway. By the way, maybe you east coast folks heading out to Missoula could remember to stuff a few extra bagels in your Multivarios when you come. Would be greatly appreciated. Do they have bagels in the U.K. Australia, etc? Speaking of food, you should have seen the nice spread arranged for us by Cascade BMW last Saturday nite; complete with Northwest wines and soft-drinks. Nice hot dishes on a cold, rainy, blustery Northwest evening. It helped if you were a K-12 owner to enjoy these treats. Cascade, after delivering their 20th K-12, decided to have an evening for the K-12 riders. More than half these owners and two pillion riders took advantage of the evening's festitivites. Found out that the blue color was the most popular color K-12, followed by yellow and then red. (Just finished the bagel - burp). Red would be neat if you could have both a Marakesh red 11RS and a bright red K-12. Maybe for a couple. Not necesarily the 11 for her and the 12 for him, though. I noticed all sizes and shapes attending Cascade's program, all ages, even occupations - all the way from a submariner from Brememerton to a medical doctor. Low seat positioning and bar-backs help the shorter rider. Chris arrived with bar backs and actually located them a notch forward on the adjustable bars. He also hard mounted a Garmin GPSIII, neat. Once you get past the notion of the K-12 as reckless abandon and understand it's more about exquisite control, then an experienced female rider on a K-12 might hot be so far fetched. Of course, you can do reckless abandon... As an examble of this "control", one former K-75 owner said, "the wind past your helmet is o.k. since we have all these saftey characteristics in the K-12." As we took our seats in the theatre style arrangement, we picked up a personalized binder containing a wealth of information. Personalized in a couple of ways. Our names were block printed on the cover of the binder, and inside was the BMW build sheet for each of our K-12 bikes. I found out for instance, that my bike was built on May 16th of this year. As I gazed at that sheet, I could'nt help but wonder if the folks that built my bike had as much fun putting it together as I have riding Greybeard. At the front of the theatre seating was a screen. Brian Waldron, a tech at Cascade, led us thru a slide-show presentation, patiently answering questions from the audience along the way. I was struck by how articulate Brian narrated his discussion of the bike. He struck me as the sort of person that is gifted with being both right brained and left brained at the same time. Rare indeed. We took a break, got to know each other a little better, had some food (and more wine) and then adjourned for the second phase of the evening in the heated shop. In the shop were two K-12's, one brand new and completely stripped including the engine covers, and, one in for service. Now let me tell you, the bike completely devoid of plastic, sitting high on one of those service stands is, perhaps, even more intriguing. The symmetry of all the components, the engine and frame gave me pause to unbolting everything at home and riding the bike "in-the-metal". Absolutely a stuning piece of work. Brian did a tour of the bike from front to rear, and both sides, pointing out, for instance, how together all the electric components are on the bike. Next we went over to the bike in for service and got a demonstration of the computer diagnostic. Paul Baker chimed in with notations on some of the up-dates. Fans with no dots, white dots, blue and white dots, etc. A special thanks to both Brian and Paul for this wonderful evening. Thoughful activities like these goes a long way to making ownership special, a need I feel when the two of us climb on a bike and enter that high-risk world we call motorcycle street riding. I guess what I'm saying is that I know I am in good hands with people like Brian and Paul looking after our motorcycling needs. On a long range note, Brain (by the way Brian is one of the 20 K-12 owners) is planning a fall K-12 tour. Six to eight days, covering the Northwest including British Columbia. It's open to anyone with a K-12. Motels, a van (to keep the K-12's light!), and a planned route. Sounds interesting at this stage. It would take place in late August or Septemember. Yesterday morning, it was still raining like blazes, so I stuck the video tape we each received from Cascade BMW into the VCR and watched a color presentation of the K-12, going over the fluid lines of the bike and a single rider as he rode thru what looked like the desert southwest on a spectacular day, demonstrating some of that "exquisite control" as he leaned into turn after turn. I can see myself viewing this tape thru long rainy, winter weekends - if I can just get Betsy to bring it back from work. Paul you got an extra one of these tapes? Miles Miller K-12 - Greybeard Bainbridge Is., Wa. Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:38:51 -0600 (CST) From: "James B. Hair" Subject: BMW: BMW dealer organization I was at Gina's BMW a couple of weeks ago and in talking with her about the Bimmer/Bemmer dealership approach and the concerns of how a motorcycle only dealership can survive I learned (much to my surprise) that there isn't any BMW motorcycle dealer organization in the US or else she wasn't aware of it. It seems that a well organized group might have some impact on BMWNA decisions. Dali Meow's take on the response of BMW of Canada was right on target. I've worked in state goverment for 30+ years and know when the response means " ---- you very much" (insert your own 4 letter word). jim hair, rogersville mo. Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 23:05:14 -0600 (CST) From: Geoff Adams Subject: Re: BMW: Re: My dealer had bag keys in stock On Sat, 29 Nov 1997, WireWheels wrote: > Geoff sez: > > > My dealer had bag keys in stock by code. I gave him the code and he > > handed over a new key. (For about $8.00!) > > But you got to walk on the new grey carpet with black tile, right? Hardly. I was at BMW of Fort Worth. I usually just go in and use the parts fisch myself. Then I wander back and grab a beer from the fridge (or drop off a few). Maybe go back into the used parts room and see if anything interesting has turned up. Then maybe up into the attic space to look for something else. But we go way back. Bought my first Beemer from Perry in '74. It won't be like this if the cage guys take over. > Sorry Geoff, just felt like jumping in =8-) > > Bondo Geoff Adams, Arlington, TX tbcNoSpam@NoSpamdfw.net Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:09:00 -0500 (EST) From: BmwbobsNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Subject: BMW: comments on the canadian dealer thread Some thoughts for the list to be considered. Although I have not seen any official response from BMW of NA so far, I can confirm that all US dealers have been required to purchase or lease some fairly expensive equipment over the past several years in order to continue to receive current and new products such as R11, R12 and K12 machines and keep their BMW franchise (it really is not a franchise, but a "dealer agreement"). There have always been some straight forward signage requirements (which are subject to local codes). These equipment purchases were for very specialized tools that allowed us to service these machines properly. Without some of them there was simply no way to perform the task with which we are charged as the selling and servicing dealer. If you are going to sell and service the product then you've got to have ALL the tools. Is it possible that BMW Canada has simply allowed some dealers to operate far to casually (handshake deals?) in the past and now wishes to at least bring them up to the standards of the US dealers? Although it can be a hardship for a dealer that sells 30 new BMWs a year to afford what a dealer selling 60 does, it can end up being even more of a hardship on the customer due to poor service later on. I would never tell anyone that all the tools I have purchased from BMWNA get used with enough frequency to pay for themselves in the first year or two, but then I did not open Bob's Used Parts, Inc and Bob's BMW to just be here for one or two years. This has always been a long term commitment for me and I believe others like Kari Prager at CalBMW feel the same way. BMWNA recently provided a very expensive piece of test equipment (about 15K) for ALL dealers regardless of size or sales volume at no cost to help level the playing field and make sure the customer got properly serviced. When, in return, they expect us to paint our shops, make them nicer, cleaner, etc. then perhaps ome dealers need to realize that the street has two sides. Life is full of negotiations and deals. The harder you work, the more you have working for you! So far, the only information I don't understand that has come to light is that the Canadian dealers seem to have been required to place "approved" BMW logo signage on their facilities and we, the US dealers are being told to NOT put them on our facilities. IMHO this hurts the brand identification process that BMW is so well known for; not to mention reducing the potential for attracting future customers via the very identifiable BMW roundel. Bob Henig owner, founder, rider & enthusiast BMWBOBSNoSpam@NoSpamAOL.COM >> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 00:14:57 -0400 From: Colin Sutton Subject: Re: BMW: Dealership Issues: Facts At 09:37 AM 12/3/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Do we have any hard facts about what, if anything, will be happening to= U.S. >Beemer dealerships ? I need to give an update to my Club members this >weekend, and don't feel that I have a grasp on the real facts. Funny you should ask... I just prepared this for my own BMW club members. It pertains to the Canadian dealers, but it's only a matter of time before it applies in the US. **************************************** So, What do we Know About the Dealer Situation? To expand on the information presented in the newsletter about the details of BMW Canada=92s decision to cut off roughly 60% of their delaer network, I=92ve prepared this fact sheet of what is known about the= situation. >From The BMW Motorcycle Dealer: =B7 As of December 31, Adriaan=92s Cycle Service and ProCycle in Dartmouth a= re being released from their =93agreement=94 with BMW Canada to sell and servic= e motorcyces. =B7 They will no longer be able to provide sales or warranty service for BMW Motorcycles. =B7 They will no longer be able to purchase parts directly from BMW, only from an authorized dealer. =B7 Pro Cycle is putting a proposal forward to BMW Canada, but some difficulty is expected over signage. Slim-to-none chance that Pro Cycle will be successful.=20 =B7 There are 22 BMW motorcycle dealers in Canada. By Jan. 1 =9198, there i= s expected to be 9. =B7 Distribution of these dealers is expected to be: 3 in Quebec, 3 in Ontario, 1 in BC, 2 in Alberta. =B7 Closest dealer will be Moto Vanier in Quebec City. =B7 BMW is demanding image standards of the dealers it=92s keeping. These include: =B7 2 courtesy bikes to be kept for customers having service work done. =B7 Must have =93receptionist=94 greeting customers at front door. =B7 Financial & Service statements are to be done monthly (currently mor= e casual schedule). =B7 Building must be painted white. =B7 Grey carpeting must be installed in showroom. =B7 Black marble tiles must be laid in the immediate area where the bike= s are to be displayed. =B7 All logos and signage of other brands must come down. =B7 The business sign on the building must be designed to match BMW=92s signage standards. =B7 To place the business name (Adriaan=92s Cycle Service) on the sign, = the letters must be purchased from BMW at a cost of $350 to $500 per letter. =B7 There's more, but I think you get the point. =B7 Dealer has been told these demands will get stricter as time goes on. =B7 The subject of warranty repairs for existing riders has not been addressed by BMW Canada, other than riders will have to go to Quebec City to get serviced under warranty. =B7 Adriaan=92s can be authorized on a Job-by-job basis by BMW Canada to do warranty repair work for riders travelling through the region. =B7 400 units moved in Canada last year - best year ever. =B7 With this move BMW plans to move 1200-1500 units per year in Canada in a few years. =B7 BMW Canada plans on having a few =93bad years=94 until people forget abo= ut this move. =B7 During this time, they plan to take on new dealers. =B7 This began with BMW AG (Germany) =B7 Person who is spearheading this initiative led the reforms in the BMW automotive division. =B7 BMW Canada President Edward A. Robinson is headed back to America in January =9198 to spearhead the same dealer-cutting initiative there. =B7 During the course of conversation between Adriaan=92s Cycle and BMW reps= , BMW reps informed them that =93Heart and emotion have nothing to do with business.=94 >From the BMW Auto Dealer in Halifax: =B7 They have made an application to BMW Canada to sell and service= motorcycles. =B7 They have received no confirmation or acknowledgement from BMW Canada. =B7 An announcement will be made in January by BMW Canada about their plans for representation in the maritime provinces. =B7 Auto dealer expects announcement to be one of three things: =B7 Pro Cycle continues as before, offering sales and service but must meet BMW standards. =B7 Auto dealer will be offering sales and service in motos. =B7 New maritime dealer for motos only. BMW Adresses: ++++++++++++++ The President, BMW Canada Inc. 980 Champlain Court Whitby, ON L1N 6K9 Tel: 1-905-683-1200 e-mail custservNoSpam@NoSpambmw.ca Web Site: http://www.bmw.ca ++++++++++++++ BMW of North America, Inc. 300 Chestnut Ridge Road,=20 Woodcliff, NJ 07675 Tel: 1-201-307-4000 Web Site: http://www.bmwusa.com ++++++++++++++ Bayerische Motoren Werke plc Petuelring 130 D-80788 Munich, Germany Web Site: http://www.bmw.com (I=92m not too sure about the snail-mail address on this one -it was the onl= y address I could find for BMW Germany.)=09 _________________________ Colin Sutton 1980 R100T (Constance) secretary, Nova Scotia BMW Riders #40, http://www.nsis.com/~csutton/nsbmwr/ To know me is to love my bike. Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:26:29 -0500 From: "enottleson" Subject: BMW: Re: Closing Dealerships I received the following response from Alan Saint-Pierre at BMW's Customer Service. Apparently, they are listening to our complaints & concerns, although it is anyone's guess if we can have an affect on their decisions. If this is a situation which matters to you, please speak up and be heard. - - Erik Nottleson '80R100T Message Received from Alan Saint-Pierre: - ---------------------- Forwarded by enottleson/GroupB/ESD/Ionics on 12/02/97 11:26 AM --------------------------- To: enottleson cc: Subject: Re: Dealerships December 1, 1997 Dear Mr. Nottleson: I am sorry that it has taken me so long to get back to you on your November 25th Email. As you mentioned in your note, this issue has generated substantial interest among members of the BMW Internet community, and I have not been able to get back to all our mail as quickly as I would have liked. Firstly, let me assure you that I appreciate your feedback and suggestions regarding the Internet, and I hope to have an opportunity to do some 'listening in' in the near future, as you suggested. I have certainly learned about the passion that our past, present and future owners feel for their BMW bikes through the response to this initiative, and it has truly been an enlightening experience. Thanks again, Mr. Nottleson, for your suggestions and comments. Yours sincerely, Alan Saint-Pierre Manager, Customer Service Eric Mascall Internet Coordinator BMW Canada Inc. website: bmw.ca e-mail: custservNoSpam@NoSpambmw.ca Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:21:48 -0600 From: ccalafNoSpam@NoSpamwebtv.net (C A) Subject: BMW: loss of oil sight glass I own a 95 R1100GS with 73,000 miles. On a trip across Texas last week the oil sight glass fell out resulting in oil loss and engine damage. I am trying to find out if there are others who have had this problem, and would appreciate hearing from you. Clint. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:35:30 -0500 From: Rich & Frauke Rosental Subject: NO BMW: Extended Warranties Prezzs: There was some infor on extended warranties on the BMW R1100 digest web = site. The place they are available from is; Western Service Contract Corp. 1-800-543-5225 I called the number and they told me to go through my dealer for the = warranty. Haven't spoken to him yet so dunno any more. Rich Rosenthal RosieNoSpam@NoSpamcapecod.net Wellfleet, MA=20 '96 R1100R die fledermaus BMWMOA, BMWRA, BMWWR Your 4/10ths kind of a rider =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:27:53 -0800 From: "Andrea Morden-Moore" Subject: BMW: Roadside Assistance Plan? A friend picked up his new GS last week, and there was nothing in any of = the paperwork about the Roadside Assistance Plan. Nothing mentioned by = the dealer either. Is it still in effect? What are the details? And = some folks are talking about "extended" warranties -- are these "dealer = offers", as opposed to from NA? TIA John Moore spirit.dragonNoSpam@NoSpamworldnet.att.net Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:58:34 -0800 From: Deryle and Wanda Mehrten Subject: Re: BMW: Dual Dealers.. (forget what it was called..) At 08:40 PM 12/15/97 -0700, Steve Aikens wrote: > >Don Eilenberger wrote: >> >> John O'(Sherlock) points out: >> >> >JIT inventory management systems apply to manufacturing, I don't see >> >it apply to a dealers parts bin. It's either on hand when the >> >customer comes in, or the special order it, or reorder it. Sometimes >> >this results in lost sales. >>.................. >> BMW is *supposed* to have in place overnight shipment of any part >> from their NJ warehouse to any dealer.. and I believe this applies >> to both the cars and the motos (since they use the same distribution >> center). >>.................. > >Don, > >They do. It's called the VOR or Vehicle Off Road delivery. It's >overnight. But it does not apply to routine parts ordering. It's >supposed to be for just what the name implies - Vehicles Off Road (or >disabled away from home). Which is another reason to make use of a >dealer a long way away from you - if something is found needing >replacement during a service, you'll meet the criteria for a VOR part >replacement > >So now everyone got to Deming Cycle Center in New Mexico for your >work......Don & crew will treat you right. BTW, he's having an Open >House the 20th........ > >-- >I don't suffer from insanity.....I enjoy every minute of it! > >Steve Aikens, Clovis, New Mexico Don at Deming Cycle, NM did the VOR for me when he found the drive shaft on my '88 K100RS ABS was beyond hope. Ordered it Friday and had it installed by 1 pm Saturday. Great service on both BMW and Don. Deryle and Wanda Arizona, USA Bikes Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:52:57 -0500 From: Dan & Julie Zee Subject: Re: BMW: Manhattan BMW (Auto) Phil Marx wrote: > > Max Monaco wrote: > >This past weekend while on our Xmas tour of the "Big Apple" (New York > >City) I stopped at Manhattan BMW. The showroom had more motorcycles > >the bikes would be in a seperate part of the showroom, whatever that meant. > > > >he wasn't very optimistic about the existing m/c dealer keeping his > >dealership. > > > >Nothing else to add. I guess we will have to see if this is going to be > >the trend like they are talking about in Canada. > > It used to be the case that BMW Manhattan was/is a "factory owned" store. > That is it was owned/managed by BMW NA, in part due to the fact that > expectations for an individual operating that point and turning a profit > were low and yet the location was deemed critical to the image of BMW. > Since we know that image seems to be everything under the current BMW > orientation, if the same ownership still applies to this location, the > image of a BMW car dealer point carrying the bikes is what's important > rather than the economics or viability of the arrangement. If it takes out > a long-standing BMW bike dealer, maybe BMW just doesn't have that concern. > The same ownership arrangement used to be true of the BMW dealer in > Westchester County. Anyone know (or care) about the current arrangement? > > -Phil Marx BMWMOA #2024 BMWCCA #6021 Phil Et Al, FWIW, Westchester BMW is owned operated and managed by BMW NA as a factory store. This has been the case since 91 when they took over the former Jaguar dealership location to sell BMW cages. This is quite an operation (indoor carwash, lots of tile, marble, chrome, glass etc.) They've built quite a volume car business there. Many friends of mine bought/leased cars there. They openly play up the "factory direct" angle and seemed to have a pricing advantage over the "privately owned" dealerships (I'm sure this goes over very well w/ them). Of course the question is... Will this generous pricing spill over to the bike dept. Maybe not, now that two local competitors are out of the picture (Q's House of Triumph and C&S BMW). On a recent visit there I did note quite an inventory of bikes. At least 6 R12c cruisers, 4 K12RSs, 3+ R11RTs and so on. Quite a selection to say the least. I doubt the average private dealer could floorplan this many bikes in the dead of the Northeast winter. The main bike contact there, Bill Hyland seems like a genuine individual (of cousrse I was drooling over an R11RS at the time). His backround comes from the car side of the business. He stated to me..."I need to make some room. So we are very flexible at this time". I cannot comment on the service/parts dept as it relates to bikes. The car end has treated me well in the past... Maybe 'two strikes' Barry in Roslyn will have better luck parking his bike there. Just a suggestion.....maybe worth checking out...are you listening??? Usual disclaimers apply......... Dan Zee Middlebury VT 91 K75s 80 R65 57 R69 Honda Nighthawk X-Sender: rbernieNoSpam@NoSpamecsu.campus.mci.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:26:17 -0500 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com, bmwmoaNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com, bmw-r1100NoSpam@NoSpamcinnamon.com From: Richard Bernecker Subject: BMW: BMW MOA Consumer Hotline has moved... Cc: bmwmoaNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com, bezingreNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com, jeff.deanNoSpam@NoSpamworldnet.att.net Sender: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Richard Bernecker X-No-Archive: yes X-Bmw-List: Majordomo 1.94.3 X-Web-Page: http://www.ibmwr.org/ X-Copyright: (c) IBMWR and the original author(s). If you're not a member of the BMW MOA, or really don't care to read about MOA club stuff, hit now.. :-) I just wanted to drop everyone a quick note letting them know that there has been a change in the BMW-MOA Consumer Hotline service. The BMW MOA's Association Manager has recently elected to bring the MOA Consumer Hotline service under the aegis of the MOA office as a formal tasking of MOA staff. As the outgoing MOA Consumer Hotline volunteer, I have forwarded to the MOA office all pending consumer action items, and am now busy enjoying my "retirement". :-) In other words, the transition of responsibility has been completed, and the MOA office staff is now directly providing this MOA member service. Therefore, all BMW MOA Consumer Hotline issues and questions should be directed to the MOA office: BMW Motorcycle Owners of America P.O. Box 489, Chesterfield, MO 63006 (314) 537-5511 The office staff can be reached at: bmwmoaNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com As well, the BMW MOA Association Manager can be reached at: bezingreNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com I have every assurance and confidence that the BMW MOA office staff is committed and positioned to provide responsive, member-oriented Consumer Hotline services. I encourage all BMW MOA members who have consumer-oriented issues, questions, or problems to make full use of this provided member service as needed. Thanks, ----- Richard Bernecker Elizabeth City, NC, USoA -----