From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jun 8 21:17:50 1997 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:04:40 -0700 To: Ben1364NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com, BMWMCNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Dan Arnold Subject: Re: BMW: Bike advice. PLEASE!! Reply-To: Dan Arnold At 17:43 -0700 6/8/97, Ben1364NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: >A couple of days ago, I posted a note requesting objective comments/etc. vis >a vis K and R bikes. I'm trying to decide which to buy and expected many >notes in reply since ya'll seem such an opinionated group--no criticism >intended!!! To date I have not heard a word and am beginning to think I >goofed and my note was not posted. Did anyone see it?...whether or not you >have any comments to offer, I would like to know if my message was >transmitted to the list. Thanks!!! If you saw it or if you see this one and >wish to offer advice, I can write again and give you the baseline data that >Steve Aikins suggested I supply. So you want 'opinionated?' Ride an R11GS. If you like it, buy it. It is the best all around motorcycle in the world. It isn't bad on the track; with an Aeroflow and Jesse bags it is an excellent tourer and can haul much more than an R11RT; it is absolutely the best bike on twisty roads. I posted earlier: ------------------------------------- While away at the 49er (and unsubscribed - I'll be brief since this may already have appeared here) the May issue of OTL arrived with an interesting article summarizing PS: DAS SPORT MOTORRAD MAGAZIN's comparison test of Honda CBR 1100XX, Bimota SB6 R, Yamaha XJR1200 SP, R11OORT and R1100GS in a multi road test: Pure racetrack; Touring; Backroads (twisties). What OTL thought particularly interesting was the fact that PS: DAS SPORT... is "race-biased." Results: Touring: R11RT 1st, R11GS 2d Racetrack: Hmmmm... for some reason OTL is vague here, allowing one only to deduce R11GS 3d, RT 4th with the Yamaha a distant 5th. They do quote re: the GS "...be ridden fluidly around the track....had fun making the big enduro toe the line." Back Roads: GS 1st, RT 2d. With many superlatives in the quotes. Overall: "We cannot know what you demand on your motorcycle, but we in any case had the most fun with the comfortable and agile R1100GS. It is a true do-everything bike. Of course , those who wish things comfy will like it even better on the cushy BWW R100RT." In other words what we already knew, these are the best performing bikes on real-world roads. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Arnold * R11GS * BOOF#16 * RW#3 * Kennewick, Washington ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 9 18:13:32 1997 Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 19:59:37 +0100 From: Nick Horley To: Ben1364NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: "R" vs "K" Bike--Which for Me? Reply-To: Nick Horley Ben1364NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: > > I have posted two previous messages on this general subject. The first > evidently didn't make the list and the second was too general (my mistake). > I have decided to start riding again after many years and want a BMW since I > am a certified BMW car nut and simply like the marque. I would classify > myself a beginner though I did ride quite a bit as a kid; mostly small bikes > and an occasional Harley, 50s/60s Triumph, Famous James (remember that one?, > etc. I did recently take the MSF course and I did add a motorcycle > endorsement to my driver's permit. > I am 58, 5'11", 175#. All I know is that want full-fairings and an upright > riding position for occasional touring. I think that I want current > architecture, '92 or later?? > I seek objective comments based on my "profile". It is a given with me, at > least, that both are fine machines though different. I simply cannot decide > which is best for me.Any thoughts along these lines will be appreciated as > are the notes received from yesterday's posting. Many thanks. Ben White For occasional touring nothing beats an R1100GS. The screen is much more protective than it looks, and if you want more protection you can get a taller aftermarket screen cheaply. IMO the full fairings on the R1100RT and K1100LT are a waste of money. Most of their vast mass serves to keep the engine clean, and they can cost many hundreds of pounds/dollars to fix if you or a dozy car driver simply knock the bike over in a car park/parking lot. (Hope you appreciate the simultaneous translation from English into American). The only really useful bit of a fairing is the screen, which does the most to reduce noise, buffeting and tiredness. A badly designed screen (such as on the R11RT) shields the front of your head but creates lots of uncomfortable turbulence behind it. Plus the full fairings weigh a ton, spoil the handling, reduce the acceleration and isolate you from the experience of motorcycling. On an R11RT I get so bored I'm struggling to stay awake - no wonder they offer a stereo. The only good thing about the fairing is the locker for your sunglasses etc. My idea of touring is making the most of the local twisty roads once I've reached the area I'm headed for. What's the point of going all the way to the Alps, then dawdling round the hairpins in a bus? I'm not alone in this perverted way of thinking. Here's an extract from the June issue of Bike magazine: TOURING DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THIS...(picture, ripped off from a BMW brochure, of two guys chatting next to their KLTs. First guy:"Wish I'd bought a VFR750." Second guy: "Yeah.So do I" "Too old for an RGV250, too young for a K Series BMW? You want a cool bike that goes a bit, can handle some luggage, and carries two people all day in reasonable comfort? Full-on tourers, eh? Fine in theory. You want it easy, gentle and comfy? Buy a Harley Electra Glide. You want to bite deep into a continent in a single day? Get a Pan European or BMW RT. But try to tolerate these bikes for the other 355 days of the year without wishing you'd bought something a bit harder and faster...we chose bikes you can ride every day, and go a bit further on some days. 10. Yamaha XJR1200 9. Honda CBR600 8. Triumph Tiger 7. Suzuki 600 Bandit 6. BMW F650 5. Kawasaki ZZ-R600 4. Triumph Sprint 3. Kawasaki ZZ-R1100 (ZX-11 in the US?) 2. Honda VFR750 1. BMW R1100GS (Yes! Justice at last!) Here's what they said about the GS: "If you're reading this top ten in reverse order please allow a short pause while we shift into a parallel universe. Where the presence of a passenger and luggage makes zero differenc to a bike's comfort, handling or performance. Where an apparently puny top speed (123 mph from 75 rear wheel horsepower) fails to explain why this is maybe the fastest A to B bike ever made. Where dodgy first impressions (vast size, perverted looks, awkward low speed control) become what you actually need to be in Provence this time tomorrow. Along with the grey import Honda 650 Hawk, the R1100GS is the most underrated bike you can buy. Thirteen years of dreary K-Series plodders and grown-up advertising have created the impression that BMWs are about as much fun as eating your greens. Not the new twins, and definitely not the GS. It does all the speed, handling and comfort things the other bikes here do, differently. It's so big, traffic moves over for you on motorways. There's so much room for both of you it's comfier than a car. The wacky suspension means you never, ever have to slow down over bumps. Try that on your GSX-R and you'll die. But the peach is the engine. It's so grunty it's like you've been hooked up to a dinosaur that's been drugged just enough to stop it from ripping you off the back of the bike when it lurches forward. I took a '96 GS to France last year with wife Fiona on the back. We did 450 miles in a day without trouble , out-cornered every FireBlade and Thunderace we could find, and had a comparison go on a GPZ1100 which felt crude, harsh and, in practical terms, slow. On the way home I overdid a roundabout, flew up a kerb at 50 mph, and yelped across a gravel drainage channel and an 18 inch deep grass ditch. The front suspension soaked up an accident that would have cartwheeled any other bike, and the ABS stopped me from 50 mph on grass without a single wheel lockup. I could spend years owning and enjoying this motorcycle. Nobody else makes anything like it." Amen to that! From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 11 11:25:50 1997 From: MilesMilNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:35:10 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Buckin' Bronco vs. the Barge Reply-To: MilesMilNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com 7:00 a.m. Wednesday You know, at times, I have to laugh to myself when I see a list person hammer at a perceived weak spot of a given model motorcycle as did the indivudal that referred to the R11RT as a "Barge". I think the indivdual in question ran about on a 11GS. As a fully satisfied Barge owner, I would like to relate the following story: When the 11GS first came out, it preceded the 11RT in th succession of R11 models. You know, Rob and co. designs these things with different purpose specific ideas in mind; that's why we have the different models. The 11GS was touted, at the time of its intro, as having real world (or real US) characteristics, up-right position, all that extra torque, etc. Those of us, including one Doug Broz from our state club pondered the acquisition of this new R11 model. I did too, rather than waiting for the seemingly, for ever delayed 11RT. My criterion, including, I think, Doug's, was two-up touring. I hesitated, Doug did not, showing up one shiney spring morning on his new, really neat white 11GS with wife Joanne on the back. After the meeting, as people with new machinery are wont to do, Doug and Joanne quickly mounted their steed and set-off with a burst in front of literally every member of the club and their guests. Or did they? Doug whacked open the throttle, the GS responded by rearing up on its hind quarters, front wheel to the sky, unceremoniously dumping wife Joanne on her kister in front of the gathered throng. Ty Randel, who was standing next to me, and seems toknow about such things, said, "You know, I thought that might happen, the way you sit on the rear of that bike, and all that torque." After that, Broz had to put up with a lot of teasing about the "Buckin' Bronco". I decided to wait to see the 11RT, and what did Broz do? Well, he did what Roozbeh has done. When two-up with Joanne, they show up on their really neat R100RT. As I write this, I ponder whether a lot of this speculation concernng the strengths and weaknesses of a given motorcycle has as much to do with state-of-mind as it does with the specific purpose for which the bike is designed. For instance, on my way around Hood Canal, with a stop in Union (yes the home of the Gerbing Clothing Co.) to adjust the seat up a notch, I traveled sedately up-right on the freeway, once hitting the two-lane twisties around the bottom of Hood Canal, thru Skykomish, Hoodsport, Duckabush, Docewollops, and Quilcene I lowered the windshield, ooched forward, and down over the bars, shifted down to third and powered out of the turns with 5 - 7 on the tach, yoweeeeeeeeeei! All of this made possible by Andy, Brian, and Mike of Cascade BMW who waved their magic wand over the bike and made it go even smooooooother than before. Miles Miller Barge Vin. 11 Bainbridge Is., Wa. From bessetteNoSpam@NoSpamdrmail.dr.lucent.com Fri Jun 13 14:58:09 1997 From: "Jim Bessette" Original-From: "Jim Bessette" Original-From: "Jim Bessette" Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:54:29 -0600 To: thundtNoSpam@NoSpamslack.net Subject: Re: BMW: Dave Ruth's South America tour On Jun 13, 2:39pm, Thomas Hundt wrote: > > Hey, are there archives or pages for the GS list? > I'm not talking about Doug's posts. You're right, the message > says where to find those. No, I mean everything *else* regarding > GS bikes. (Is there a tech site somewhere? Different list, > maybe different webpages?) Oh, sorry Tom. Um, I don't know of a GS website (like the IBMWR site). There ARE a bunch of folks that have web pages with their favorite GS topics. I don't know of them off-hand, and I've no bookmarks for them though. There are a couple of GS related businesses on the web (unfortunately mostly German on one). There is a GS list (if I'm reading THIS mail correctly). Here's the info on that: This is from Carl Paukstis's list BMW-GS: DESCRIPTION: Dual purpose BMW boxers DIGEST AVAILABLE? Yes ADMIN ADDRESS: listprocNoSpam@NoSpammicapeak.com TO SUBSCRIBE: Message body: "subscribe BMW-GS " LIST OWNER: bmw-gs-ownerNoSpam@NoSpammicapeak.com WWW URL: http://www.micapeak.com/bmw-gs/ I hope that's what you wanted. The GS list is much better on signal to noise ratio than the BMW list. One other resource is an R80/100 GS fiche page that Wendall Duncan put up at: http://www.theonlynet.com/~duncan/GSParts.html Hope this helps. -- Jim Bessette | Experiencing | First BMW '89 K100RS/ABS bessetteNoSpam@NoSpamdrmail.dr.lucent.com | BMW evolution | Second BMW '93 R100GS/PD Westminster, CO. USA | in reverse | Third BMW '68 R50/2 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 19 23:26:55 1997 From: "John Mulvihill" To: "BMW Internet Riders" Cc: "Roozbeh Chubak" , "BMW GS Mailing List" , Subject: BMW: R1100GS vs. Honda VTR1000 SuperHawk (long) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:02:27 -0700 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "John Mulvihill" To see if a crotch rocket's lay-down riding position could help my aching back (see my post "Back pain, joint aches, HELP!"), I took a Honda VTR1000 Super Hawk for an extended test ride today on one of my favorite twisty roads. It made a fascinating contrast to my 1995 R1100GS. Actually, just getting a test ride on one of these hot-selling Super Hawks was an accomplishment. Many dealers have already sold their year's allottments, and those who have stock are refusing even a spin around the block. It's a seller's market for Super Hawks since the riding mags gave it the nod as the "street-oriented sport V-twin of choice" over the Suzuki TL and even the Ducati 900. The latest Cycle World named the Super Hawk their top open-class sportbike of the year, in ANY category. For giving me a test ride on his personal machine, I thank the owner of newly-relocated Concord Motor Sports (Bay Area). They have a fabulous selection of Hondas, Suzukis and Ducatis, and a staff who really try to accommodate you, even if you're interested in a model they can sell over the phone. They're a big operation but, in my limited dealings with them so far, I find them to be real motorcycle people and recommend them if you're in the market for any of these brands. Half a block into my test ride, I could understand the critics' enthusiasm for the Super Hawk: This bike is one serious go-fast machine packaged in an ingot-like chassis that exudes Honda's superlative engineering and build quality. It feels like a late-model VFR with massive goat-gland injections. The Super Hawks' riding position is considered mild by sportbike standards, but after my touring-setup R11GS (with barbacks, Russell saddle and Aeroflow screen) my 47-year-old frame found it demanding. Within a couple of miles my wrists informed me they were not accustomed to supporting my upper body, especially at a weird angle, and that they weren't about to take it lying down. My hip joints protested their unnatural rotation, as result of splayed legs and high pegs. Look away from the screen for a moment and up at your ceiling. That's the position my neck was forced into every minute of the test ride, unless I wished to peruse the top of the too-small gas tank. (We're talking a hundred-mile range here--in the Harley Sportster peanut-tank category--thanks to the massive 48 mm carbs 30 mpg thirst.) From my bicycling experience I know my neck would adjust, but I wasn't sure about my hips. While I adjusted to the realities of sport riding posture, we (they sent along a young hot-shoe on a new GSXR 750 to chaperone me) made our way through city traffic to the serpentine and bumpy Marsh Creek Road. Those five miles of stoplights made me long for the wide bar and tall saddle of my GS. But my discomfort was mollified by the Honda's incredible surge away from the Living Dead in their Avalons. With more than 100 horspower pushing 440 pounds, and torque in the same league as my R1100GS (!), the Honda felt like it could ride OVER the traffic ahead of us. And the power pulses of the 90-degree V-twin are, I have to admit, far more sensual than the BMW flat-twin's reassuring side-to-side massage. (I recently heard a Super Hawk with Staintune pipes and it was the greatest basso profundo since E. Power Biggs on his pipe organ.) The twisties of Marsh Creek Road showed me how forbidding modern crotch rockets are on bumpy secondaries, and yet how blazingly fast they can be if you show them who's boss. After a couple of getting-acquainted miles, I started increasing corner entrance speeds and exist blasts. To be frank, the resulting experience left me more in awe of my GS than of the Honda. While the Honda tracked true, it literally threw me off the seat reacting to bumps my GS would shrug off, even with 48,000 miles on its stock shocks. And while I could lever the tall GS into tight corners while cranked over and hard on the brakes with only minor effort, I really had to yank on the Honda's narrow clip-ons to get the leverage necessary to get the wide Dunlop 204 radials to change direction. There are few passing places on this road, but when we came up on traffic the Honda easily powered around the largest obstacles, including double-trailered dump trucks. It's the finest motor I've had the pleasure of wicking open and shut. My buddy on the GSXR was falling behind, so I waited till I saw him in my mirrors before branching off to the Byron side road, with its undulating hills and long sweepers. Then I took off again. This time I sampled the Super Hawk's 80-mph-plus characteristics and found it ultra-stable. But I was disconcerted by the laydown riding position. After the GS, which is also rock-solid at speed, I felt my forward vision compromised by the Super Hawk's closeness to the road (not reassuring at speed on a country road with many entrances), and the bumps made the tightly-suspended Honda feel dartier than the long-travel GS suspension. The return journey impressed upon me how quickly the Super Hawk's learning curve could be mastered. I could throw it into corners at serious veolicities (e.g., 70 mph in a 30 mph-signed corner), and it gave the impression there was great reserve capacity still unexplored. Still, the word is getting out that a disproporionate number of new Super Hawk and Suzuki TL riders are washing out their front ends and crashing big-time, probably due to intoxication induced by seemingly unlimited entrance speeds. As it turns out, there ARE limits. I hadn't found them yet, because they are so far beyond the speeds at which a sane person would ride on public roads. My ride on the Super Hawk made me understand how easily Roozbeh Chubek and I can reel in most crotch rocket riders on our GSs, and at the same time, how much serious trouble I could get myself into on a state-of-the art sportbike. How to explain the contradiction? The GS is easier to ride fast and handles the bumpy stuff far better. But the new Japanese sport twins' tractable power and superior tires make their ultimate potential velocity through the twisties much greater--IF the rider can master their various demands. I could see myself going very, very fast on a Super Hawk, but to what purpose? A trip to the local hoosegow or emergency ward? There's no victory podium in street racing, only a clammy realization at the next rest stop that you've cheated the odds once again. There's also the exhileration that comes from riding fast on top machinery, of course, but this ride showed me that to explore the potential of today's sportbikes requires speeds that, on public roads, invite catastrophe. So as we navigated the city traffic back to the dealership, I concluded that for a one-bike kinda guy who's not a member of the No Fear fraternity, the Super Hawk isn't a realistic alternative to the R11GS. In every way other than canyon carving on smooth roads, the GS is so superior it's almost laughable. And even on the smooth stuff, I know I'll be able to reel in 23 out of 25 Super Hawk riders on my GS. Still, I'm strongly attracted to the Honda twin. There's that gorgeous 90-degree twin. With Staintunes it would feel like the hammer of Thor. And an Eclipse Sport Bag set would enable me to do some touring. . . So, contrary to logic, I haven't totally discarded the prospect of acquiring a Super Hawk. For what it does, at the level I can do it (e.g., less than road-racer velocities), it's the best bike I could ask for. As Honda's first effort in the 90-degree arena, it's a brilliant accomplishment. What I need is some context. Tomorrow I take out the Speed Triple, and who knows what else. Stay tuned to see if there's something out there that can coax me off my GS and back into all-out sport riding. - John Mulvihill From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 10 17:02:04 1997 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:42:52 -0700 From: Henrik Morkner To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Seat height - GS Reply-To: Henrik Morkner > David Jim Roskelley wrote: > Subject: BMW: Seat height - GS > I am a new member to this list and have a question for the GS types. > Question: I am considering the purchase (new or used) of this model but I > am concerned about the seat height. I am 5'9" w/ 32" inseam. Had pretty > extensive experience with an enduro machine several years ago that was at > least as tall as the 33.1" seat of a GS. That is a whole 'nother world, > admittedly, but I rode it for several seasons with no thought that it was > too tall. I would appreciate hearing advice from others...(snip). I'm 6' but have a 33" inseam and have no problems with my '91R100GS. I have both the stock and Corbin Dual seat for the bike. Generally I commute every day with the stock (12 mi ea way) since it's easier to start and stop and I can almost sit flat footed with it. For longer trips I put on the Corbin. The Corbin is lower and much more comfortable long term. However, it's wider so forces your legs up a little more when your at a stop light and such. So, basically, it forces me to just use my toes to balance at a stop. Either way it's not a big deal. The minute you move the big front wheel takes over and the GS is a piece of cake to balance. I've driven different Enduros for many (way many) years and the GS size and weight is never a problem (EXCEPT in sand, mud, and picking it up in a fall over :-). Buy a airhead or oilhead GS and enjoy!! -Henrik Morkner +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | ____ O Henrik Morkner Design Engineer, Palo Alto, CA USA| |____ /\-o\ henrikNoSpam@NoSpamhpcmrd01.sj.hp.com HP -My views, not employer| ____+==\===_ '91 R100GS "DaWreck" -"Luck never gives;it only lends"| +___(_)/-0(_)__.,^.-_^:.-------------------------------------------------+~c From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 10 19:02:03 1997 From: "Mike Nobbs" To: Subject: BMW: GS Seat Height Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:46:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Mike Nobbs" David Jim Roskelley wrote I would appreciate hearing advice from others that are similarly challenged in the verticle sense with GS experience I am 6'3" with 34 inside leg,and since having got a PD find the side stand very awkward to put down.I think that this is due to the width of the tank.I never had the problem with standard GS,so it may be best to go for standard one. I also fitted my old GS with 18" wheel from 100R this allows 110/80 tyre to be fitted and also lowers bike. It is also possible to drop the forks in the yokes by approx 1" if you want to. I think there are also "lower" monoshocks available in England,so there should be no excuses not to get a GS-the finest bike BMW ever made-it doesnt whine either. Mike Nobbs,King's Lynn.GB 1992 R100GSPD 1960 R69S/1000cc BMW Club East Anglian Section,IBMWR. 1989 CX22TRS x2 C.C.C.#17744 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 26 11:32:31 1997 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:07:31 -0400 From: Wayne Dowers Subject: BMW: Re: Changing gearbox oil, a better way? To: JosephVmanNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: Wayne Dowers I use a large syringe (like used for tube feeding) that measures in cc's and use this to "inject" the oil into the filler hole. There's vitually no mess at all. For the plugs, I have a Craftsman spark plug socket that just fits into the plug hole - You might try that from Sears or Western Auto. Regards, Wayne Dowers '96 R850R Panzer Green Metalic ---------- > From: JosephVmanNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com > To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com > Subject: BMW: Changing gearbox oil, a better way? > Date: Saturday, July 26, 1997 10:27 AM > > > Last night I changed the gearbox and rear drive oil in my R11GS, added the > Dow Corning M, and I'm pretty pleased with the shifting. I've got a > question: Is there an EASY way to refill the gearbox? It took me longer to > clean up the mess than to change the fluids! The damn filler hole is > vertical, and out of a half-dozen funnels, I couldn't get a single one to > stay put, finally resorting to making a cardboard "ramp" and pouring it down > inside the box. > > I picked up some of the infamous Champion plugs at my dealer, and was > planning on changing them last night. After popping off the plastic > "4-valve" caps and plug wires, I practically needed binoculars to see the > plug way down there! The BMW service manual calls for "BMW Special Tool" of > course.....Of course I don't have this tool, and my spark plug wrench is much > to big to get at the plug. Any suggestions? > > Thanks in advance! > > Joe Maniaci > 96 R1100GSA > 96 Dinan ///M3