From tcoraNoSpam@NoSpampica.army.mil Fri Jun 6 16:31:57 1997 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles From: tcoraNoSpam@NoSpampica.army.mil (Tom Coradeschi) Subject: Re: OILS Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 20:42:11 GMT a.c.pughNoSpam@NoSpamshef.ac.uk (andy the pugh) wrote: >Robin Chung wrote: >> Motorcycle Consumer News ran an article comparing bike oils and regular >> synthetic oils. They disspelled all the rumors about MC-=specific oils, >> both empirically and theoretically. In the end, even an MC-specific >> synthetic oil won't run any better than a good full synthetic like Mobil1. > >So where does Mobil-1 Racing 4T motorcycle oil fit into this scheme of >things? According to sources at Mobil, the only differences betwwen this stuff and the "regular" Mobil 1 are: the label and the price. Save yer money. tom coradeschi <+> tcora(at)pica.army.mil http://k-whiner.pica.army.mil/ From tcoraNoSpam@NoSpampica.army.mil Wed May 14 09:16:42 1997 Date: Wed, 14 May 97 9:16:31 EDT From: Tom Coradeschi To: thundtNoSpam@NoSpamslack.net Subject: Re: oil Organization: SADARM SPICE Team, US Army ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, NJ >Oil controversy? Three words: Fear, uncertainty, doubt. Fourth word: ignorance. Too many people are willing to take the word of a magazine writer or oil company salesman. >So, I take it you say Castrol GTX is fine? :-) What do you run? GTX is fine for a dino oil. I use Mobil 1 (bike and cages) and have for years. tom coradeschi <+> tcoraNoSpam@NoSpampica.army.mil http://k-whiner.pica.army.mil/ From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 16 00:57:42 1997 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:37:12 -0700 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: "Donald W. Hofmann" Subject: Re: BMW: Castrol GTX? 2 Die For. Reply-To: "Donald W. Hofmann" >Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:27:58 -0700 >To: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu (jim roche) >From: "Donald W. Hofmann" >Subject: Re: BMW: Castrol GTX? 2 Die For. > >At 09:21 PM 6/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >>David Norton explains: >> >>>There's many opinions on oil, I lean toward Castrol GTX in 20w-50 >>>weight as that is the BMW recommended weight for most of the >>>temperatures I encounter. >> >> >> >> >>Castrol GTX is easily the most overrated, ash filled, sluge induceing, easy >>shear, quick evaporating, dino drippings that can be bought over the >>counter. Absolutly gruntistic parifin based puke unfit for a Harley much >>less a BMW. Use it and lose it - the engine that is. Switch to 100% >>synthintic while there is still time. Best, >> >>Jim(Dr.Curve)Roche >>jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu >>high performance old twins >>http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~jroche/index.html >> >HMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!! > >Got 65K on a K75S with Castrol and it still keeps on ticking. >Had a R75/5 that had 90K with Castrol and that one kept on >ticking to. Got another K75S with 30K and it seems to enjoy >the Castrol stuff. > >Now the Ducs get Kendall 20-50 M/C oil - little difference in how >the tranny is set up for lubrcation. Here is where you watch out >for the shear factor. > >Like we all say, "What ever works." > >Regards > >Mister & Truama MAMMA > From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 16 02:48:33 1997 From: "drbob27" To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 00:21:35 +0000 Subject: BMW: Re: air filters, oil Reply-To: "drbob27" >Absolutly gruntistic parifin based puke unfit for a Harley >much less a BMW. Use it and lose it - the engine that is. Switch >to 100% synthintic while there is still time. Best, I can't stand it - I'm basically agreeing with Norton :-). K engines are stout. They will endure any appropriately rated (SG?) oil, including Castrol, without a whimper. They will survive K&N air filters. It really doesn't matter, so long as you maintain the bike per the service recommendations. Me? I use Mobil 1(engine and transmission), BMW oil filters, and wouldn't dream of ditching the excellent paper air filter. But it's just to feel good. The bike chuckles at my fuss. bob K75RT From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 16 13:29:49 1997 From: Joe Senner Subject: Re: BMW: Castrol GTX? 2 Die For. To: mgensmanNoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:13:03 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Joe Senner ]jim roche wrote: ]> Castrol GTX is easily the most overrated, ash filled, sluge induceing, easy ]> shear, quick evaporating, dino drippings that can be bought over the ]> counter. Absolutly gruntistic parifin based puke unfit for a Harley much ]> less a BMW. Use it and lose it - the engine that is. Switch to 100% ]> synthintic while there is still time. Best, ]> ]> Jim(Dr.Curve)Roche ]> jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu ]> high performance old twins ]> http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~jroche/index.html ]Jim, I'm surprised at your post. I remember several years ago Consumer ]Reports rated Castrol as the best oil available. The last test they did ]a few months ago rated all the top oils about the same and said the ]benefits of synthetic were minimal. They ran oil in a bunch of NY taxis ]and measured bearing wear before and after something like 100K miles. ]Castrol was right there with the best. Is there a test or documentation ]regarding Castrol being bad? I've used it for years. I put 97,000 on my ]78 100/7 and never ran anything but Castrol. Thanks. MCN also had someone do some viscosity tests and found GTX to be as good or dang close to the synthetics, at least within the 3k mile range. all the published information indicates it's decent a oil. jim apparently just thinks it's bad. the choice of who to listen to isn't a hard one in this case. sometimes jim says things that are truely inspiring. sometimes jim says things that are just plain stupid and arrogant. I try to read all his posts, you get both education and entertainment that way :-) -- Joe Senner Tandem Computers, Inc. SoD #24 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 16 16:41:01 1997 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:20:24 -0500 From: Jerry Salgado To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: OIL LEVEL SIGHT GLASS on K100 Reply-To: Jerry Salgado After about 6 or 7 oil changes using PENNZOIL 20w50 GT oil, my sight glass is about 90% cleared. As recommended by dealer, I used Valvoline 20w50 for about 7 yrs. since the bike was new. The sight glass was fouled up in about 3 years. What bothers me is the other internal sites in the engine that have the gunk that Valvoline deposited and that the Pennzoil cannot remove. JS Austin, Tx From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 16 23:32:46 1997 From: "Rob Lentini" To: "IBMWR" Subject: BMW: Oil Favorites? -- Forget It!!! Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:09:03 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" Comon' guys! Go ahead and keep your allegiances to whatever favorite brand of oil you prefer. That's OK! The REALLY important factor is to change the stuff AT LEAST as often as the manual prescribes, with the filter. I challenge anyone to share with us a documented example of an oil-related failure. This just DOESN'T HAPPEN in today's high-spec API oil environment. All brands are a winner here. Just abide by the API spec and relax. Now let's move on to real issues--not "gimmies." Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ (520) 790-8865 '94 R1100RS Three Flags 97 #205 MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA "Let's RIDE more and politic LESS" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jun 20 06:44:26 1997 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:30:13 -0500 From: twocyl To: Rob Lentini Cc: IBMWR Subject: Re: BMW: Oil Favorites? -- Forget It!!! Reply-To: twocyl Rob Lentini wrote: > > Comon' guys! Go ahead and keep your allegiances to whatever favorite brand > of oil you prefer. That's OK! > > The REALLY important factor is to change the stuff AT LEAST as often as the > manual prescribes, with the filter. > > I challenge anyone to share with us a documented example of an oil-related > failure. This just DOESN'T HAPPEN in today's high-spec API oil > environment. > > All brands are a winner here. Just abide by the API spec and relax. Now > let's move on to real issues--not "gimmies." > > Rob Lentini > Tucson, AZ > (520) 790-8865 > '94 R1100RS > Three Flags 97 #205 > MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA > "Let's RIDE more and politic LESS" OK Rob, I'll give you an example of an oil related failure. I guess you will have to take my word for it, as I didn't document it anywhere! ;-> I was away from my home turf when it was time to change the oil in my Harley. I had been using Amalie(sp?) Pro 50 for 65 thousand miles with 2500 mile change intervals, and I still didn't need to add oil between changes.(yes Charlette, I said Harley) I couldn't find my brand of oil anywhere and settled for Castrol Four Stroke Motorcycle Oil in 50W. I know, I know, I had never heard of it either, but like you said any name brand will do, right? I changed the oil and filter and headed for home. I will admit that it was close to 100 degrees and I was probably passing everything in sight on the Maine Turnpike when my lifters started to rattle. When I looked behind me, I was leaving a trail of smoke. I pulled over and could find nothing wrong except the oil made water look thick!! Keep in mind that I know what 50W looks like when it is hot(65K on this bike)and that oil was JUNK! I let it cool down and limped slowly back home. I changed the oil and filter again with my prefered oil and went right back out on the slab to see if I had damaged anything. Engine was quiet at any speed in the same heat as before, but now I had a rear cylinder that smoked on decel. From that day on, the engine never gave me a problem again, but used a quart of oil every 800 miles. You can draw your own conclusions, but I wouldn't put Castrol in anything I own. Mark Ayotte Southington CT. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 23 17:31:01 1997 From: "Todd Papke" To: "Norman R. Solberg" , Subject: BMW: Re: Mixing Oils? Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:10:02 -0700 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Todd Papke" I put Harley oil in my lawn mower once when I didn't have anything else around, just like you did here. The lawn mowerr lasted for one more mowing and then died. Honest to God. Meanwhile my Harley chugs along with 58,000 on the clock having swum in nothing but Harley oil. Todd.. ---------- > From: Norman R. Solberg > To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com > Subject: BMW: Mixing Oils? > Date: Saturday, June 21, 1997 2:57 PM > > > Hi Fellow Prezzes: > > Yesterday, I noticed the oil level in my R11RT was way down. This didn't > bother me, because many of you have observed that in the first 6,000 to > 10,000 miles, they do eat oil. > > As a stop-gap measure, I topped it off with a quart of Harley Davidson > 20-50W, the only stuff I had on hand on a Saturday night (amazing that I > had anything on hand here.) I seem to recall someone saying that this stuff > is made by Spectro, right? Then I noticed on the label a comment from HD > that "this oil is not recommended for any other kind of motorcycle." Oops. > What did I do and does it matter? Is this particular oil NOT recommended > for the bike? > > I know generally that it is not "good" to mix oils, but I don't know why. > > Also, strange to believe, in view of the hundreds of posts on the list > about oil -- I seem to have failed to save any of them! Can someone point > me to a FAQ on this? I couldn't locate it in the tech tips. I did find the > "snake oil" additives article at http://www.bmwscruz.com that I remembered > someone mentioning the other day. (Thanks.) > > Not to start an endless thread up again, but I could use some input. > > All the best, > > Norm > > ________________ > > Norman R. Solberg > Solberg International Law Office > Maison d'Or Michino, Suite 901 > 2-31 Kanzakicho, Chuo-ku > Osaka 540, Japan > > e-mail: solbergnNoSpam@NoSpamiac.co.jp or solbergNoSpam@NoSpamgaiben.com (new) > Web site: http://www.iac.co.jp/~solbergn/ or http://www.gaiben.com > Phone and fax: (81-6) 767-4098 > __________________ > From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 8 12:33:35 1997 From: Joe Senner Subject: Re: TECH: Re: BMW: Fram Oil Filter Equivalent for Oilhead... To: tcoraNoSpam@NoSpampica.army.mil Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:01:56 -0500 (CDT) Cc: joutlanNoSpam@NoSpamiag.net, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com, bmw-techNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Joe Senner ]Or PH3614 (slightly smaller in diameter and needs a different wrench). ] ]While we're on the topic, both the 6063 and 3614 have bypass valve specs of ]9-11 psi (OK, the 3614 is 9-12 psi). My Haynes calls for 22 psi (K100). Any ]commentary on this? I don't see it being a real big deal, since the only ]two circumstances I can think of where the bypass comes into play are: ]1) the filter is totally clogged (in which case you've got other problems); ]2) VERY thick oil due to VERY low temps (in which case *I* won't be riding ]anyhow). I've been using the 3614 for a while now, working great. my mercury villager takes a 3682, which appears to be identical to the 3614 except that it is about an inch taller. they have the same base on them. the 3682 appears to have the dents for the wrench impressed a little better as well, making it easier to get on/off (the wrench fits better). when I run out of 3614's, I'll be buying 3682's for both my R11RT and my Villager :-) 3682's won't work on the K's, they'll stick out past the cover plate. both the 3614 and the 3682 are $2.16 at my local wal-mart super center. -- Joe Senner SoD #24 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 9 11:10:13 1997 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 10:36:26 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamfacteur.std.com From: Don Eilenberger Subject: BMW: RE: K Smoking Reply-To: Don Eilenberger Well - they don't ALL do that.. my '85 K100RT, which spends much of it's life on the sidestand* only does it mebbe 1 outta 100 starts, and then it is a brief puff of smoke. Why doesn't mine smoke? - dunno, but I do use what I consider a special oil in it - Castrol RX-Super 15-40 dino oil. Excellent stuff designed for diesel use. FWIW - the bike spent the entire UdderNonsense weekend on the sidestand when I wasn't riding it - not a single puff of smoke.. and this is sorta typical behavior for it. * = since I lowered the suspension on the K so my toes reach the ground - it is very difficult to get it up on the centerstand.. it only goes on the centerstand in the garage where I have a 1.5" ramp I ride the back wheel up on.. and yes, I've looked into lowering the centerstand - but this isn't doable since the stand tucks into various spots on the exhaust system.. ================================== Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com ================================== From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 8 23:32:19 1997 X-Sent-Via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ From: "Rob Lentini" To: , "ibmwr" , "oilhead" Subject: BMW: Re: Where to Buy? was: Fram Oil Filter Equivalent for Oilhead Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:09:21 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" Jon asks: ==== Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:13:57 -0400 From: "John Outlan" Subject: BMW: Re: Where to Buy? was: Fram Oil Filter Equivalent for Oilhead Thanks for the input. BTW where do you guys buy these? Around here I've checked Discount Auto, Pep Boys and Napa Auto Parts in addition to WallyMart. Pep Boys and Wallymart sell Fram Oil Filters but do not have the PH6063 nor can they order them they claim. So, where do I buy them??? Thanks......... ==== You can order them at K Mart, but why bother? 3614s are spec'd the same and 1/3 the cost: 2/$5 at Checker. Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ (520) 790-8865 (H), (520) 295-6411 (B) '94 R 1100 RS Three Flags 97 #205 MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA BMWMOA Board Member "Elect" "LET'S RIDE MORE AND POLITIC LESS" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 9 16:03:45 1997 From: Joe Senner Subject: Re: BMW: Re: Where to Buy? was: Fram Oil Filter Equivalent for Oilhead To: joutlanNoSpam@NoSpamiag.net Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:30:38 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Joe Senner ]Thanks for the input. BTW where do you guys buy these? Around here I've ]checked Discount Auto, Pep Boys and Napa Auto Parts in addition to WallyMart. ]Pep Boys and Wallymart sell Fram Oil Filters but do not have the PH6063 nor can ]they order them they claim. ] ]So, where do I buy them??? Wal-Mart, except they're called PH3614 there :-) -- Joe Senner SoD #24 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 9 19:31:14 1997 X-Sent-Via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ From: "Rob Lentini" To: , "terence r. evans, m.d." Cc: , "John Outlan" , "S Borgstrom" Subject: BMW: Re: Fram Oil Filter Equivalent for Oilhead AND K-Bikes! Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:14:53 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" ---------- > From: Terence R. Evans, M.D. > To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com > Cc: Rob Lentini ; tcoraNoSpam@NoSpamskylands.ibmwr.org; John Outlan ; S Borgstrom > Subject: Re: Fram Oil Filter Equivalent for Oilhead AND K-Bikes! > Date: Wednesday, July 09, 1997 7:56 AM > So, there's the 6063 vs the 3614. I've had one experience with the 3614. > Therefore perhaps would the BMW filter accomodate the 6063? Likely. > I haven't seen the 6063s. They're BMW M/C specific, and rare. Can be ordered thru K Mart for about $6 per if you get a case. > 3] So the 6063s are 3x the cost of 3614s? Is it the one in the fancier box > that's the non traditional orange Fram box are more expensive>. Nope. Just low volume=higher $$$. > 4] O-ring and crush washer size and sources? Good hardware stores like Ace have them all. > > 5] FWIW, my last BIG ride was last May's Ga Mountain Rally for that I > freshly changed my oil and filter, going with the FRAM 3614 the first time > away from the stock BMW filter. > Prezzes Samuelson and Caciedo both told me I was smoking (black sooty, > choking> so much out of the exaust they had to keep > in front of me. Bike was recently tuned so I wondered what was the most > recent change? Going with the FRAM 3614. > > So upon returning home I promptly went back to the BMW filter. Last group > ride was 2 w/es ago where I askesd the infamous Dali Meeow to pay attention > if I was smoking from my exaust. His answer was an absolute NO as we ran > high speed 'running and gunning' thru the S Fla twistys :-^). > > I feel that was a possible abberation and am willing to try the 3614 again > but not the 6063 (about the same cost here as the stock BMW filter) however > I will only do this *IF* the O-ring and crush washer is properly sized and > readily available where the Frams are sold. BTW, for the last two changes, I > returned to the (what did Dr Curve say?) Castrol GTX 20-50 There's NO WAY an oil filter can contribute to the rich burning condition you describe. Your air flow meter return spring may need calibration. Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ (520) 790-8865 (H), (520) 295-6411 (B) '94 R 1100 RS Three Flags 97 #205 MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA BMWMOA Board Member "Elect" "LET'S RIDE MORE AND POLITIC LESS" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 10 11:30:14 1997 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 11:13:07 EDT From: Tom Coradeschi To: the internet bmw riders Subject: Re: BMW: Re: Filter change intervals Organization: Skylands BMW Riders Reply-To: Tom Coradeschi (who'd rather not give his name) wrote: > I'm deeoly involved with the high performance automotive >engine biz. We have found that after the wear-in period the filters tend to >remain clean through two oil changes. The initial run-in is the time when >the adjacent parts are shedding particles, and once the pieces have >"adapted" to each other the particle count drops dramatically, thus >extended filter milage is acceptable. This makes sense. > It is still necessary that the oil itself be renewed, due to the fact >that the modifiers blended into the oil become depleted and or catalyzed >and no longer function at full potential. Right. So how do you account for the dirty oil that's still in the filter? Or is that OK? And if it's OK to leave _some_ dirty oil in the engine, do I really need to change _all_ the oil in the sump? Why not just change, say, 2 quarts of it? or maybe only 1? I can save LOTS of money that way. tom "bookawitz" coradeschi <+> tcoraNoSpam@NoSpamskylands.ibmwr.org Skylands (NJ) BMW Riders <+> From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 10 12:21:59 1997 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:46:59 -0400 To: roozbehNoSpam@NoSpamwco.com (Roozbeh Chubak) From: Don Eilenberger Subject: Re: BMW: Smokin' K's - nope! Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamfacteur.std.com Reply-To: Don Eilenberger At 08:22 AM 7/10/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 5:23 AM 7/10/97, Don Eilenberger wrote: >> >>Mine doesn't.. center or sidestand - and since it's an '85 I think >>it qualifies as 'early'.. tell 'ya what - how about a bet.. I'll >>give you 2 to 1 odds.. every time it starts and smokes I'll give you >>$2 - every time it starts and doesn't - you give me $1? I would soon >>be able to afford the K12.. > > >No bet. Butt... how do you prevent the oil finding its way to the "top" of >the engine when the bike is on its side stand? Either it does not get >there (why not?), or, if it does it must burn and smoke. So what is your >secret? > >Regards, >Roozbeh Only two thoughts on how-come mine doesn't smoke.. 1. Since I lowered the bike - when on the sidestand, the lean angle isn't much - mebbe 10 degrees off vertical.. butt that doesn't explain when I park it overnight at rallies with the sidestand in a hole to make it more wind-resistant, so.. mebbe: 2. The oil I use. Is not a standard oil.. it's Castrol RX-Super, which is a diesel rated oil, 15-40. Every rating on it is one higher than standard GTX.. I started using it in my bikes and my cage (also a BMW) after a friend who is an exotic car mechanic told me it is the only thing he'll use in Mercedes (gas or diesel) and Ferrari engines (and he showed me the valve lifter damage using 'lesser' oils would do to certain Mercedes V8's).. claimed it is from a different base oil than standard GTX, required less viscosity improvers and wear factors were as good as any synthetic he's seen. My gut feeling is that it maintains the viscosity longer than 'lesser' oils. Someone else mentioned the smoking being worse as oil-change time gets near, and I can understand this if the viscosity is breaking down (thinner will leak past the rings easier). Used to be I could only get this oil in 'bulk' from him (Castrol dealer comes with a truck and fills a 300 gallon tank in his garage) - butt for the past 3 years or so, PepBoys carrys it for the same price as GTX and will usually give me the GTX sale prices on it. Like I sez - I have no 'definative' answer - when I got the bike it smoked several times, switched to the RX-Super - and it is a very rare incidence when it does now (mebbe 1 outta 100 starts), and when it's not in my garage or moving - it lives on the sidestand. BTW - fill level really doesn't have anything to do with it.. mine is filled to the toppa the level-ring (and stays there between changes).. the ring and the sump are considerably below the cylinders - even on the sidestand. I think the oil that gets into the cylinders is just some from on the walls of the cylinders when the engine is stopped - and prolly worse if a cylinder is on the suction stroke when the engine is stopped (before either valve quite opens..) putting the bike on the sidestand will tend to make the cylinder wall oil puddle down around the rings.. Best, ================================== Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com ================================== From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 9 23:44:56 1997 From: "John Outlan" To: "rob lentini" , "ibmwr" , "oilhead" Subject: BMW: Re: Where to Buy? was: Fram Oil Filter Equivalent for Oilhead Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:15:24 -0400 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "John Outlan" Rob, Tom, Terry and all threadees, OK, OK I'm cool now!! Let us use the PH3614 because they are spec'd the same as the rare BMW specific 6063 and cost about a third of the price. Let's go to Pep Boys. They are a little smaller in diameter than the BMW filter or 6063, but what the effe, I can buy a size 'A' filter wrench for under 5 smackers! But damn, you ask, what about the O-Rings? Well, hell, let's just march on down to Ace Hardware and pick up some of those bad boys, then order a handful of drain plug crush washers from..... Hey, is Bob Henig here? If so, can you send me a couple of BMW Oil Filters for an Oilhead??? :-]]]]]]]] John O. (who wants to see Terry win that R1100RS in a designer color :-) ---------- > From: Rob Lentini > To: joutlanNoSpam@NoSpamiag.net; IBMWR ; Oilhead > > Jon asks: > ==== > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:13:57 -0400 > From: "John Outlan" > Subject: BMW: Re: Where to Buy? was: Fram Oil Filter Equivalent for Oilhead > > Thanks for the input. BTW where do you guys buy these? Around here I've > checked Discount Auto, Pep Boys and Napa Auto Parts in addition to > WallyMart. > Pep Boys and Wallymart sell Fram Oil Filters but do not have the PH6063 nor > can > they order them they claim. > > So, where do I buy them??? > > Thanks......... > ==== > You can order them at K Mart, but why bother? 3614s are spec'd the same > and 1/3 the cost: 2/$5 at Checker. > > Rob Lentini > Tucson, AZ From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 10 03:20:28 1997 From: "Jonathan Jefferies" To: Cc: Subject: BMW: K Bike Oil Filters Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:04:30 -0700 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Jonathan Jefferies" Terry Evans commented about Fram filters: >I feel that was a possible abberation and am willing to try the 3614 again >but not the 6063 (about the same cost here as the stock BMW filter) however >I will only do this *IF* the O-ring and crush washer is properly sized and >readily available where the Frams are sold. BTW, for the last two changes, I >returned to the (what did Dr Curve say?) Castrol GTX 20-50 > >Opinions/Comments? Perhaps I'm a little confused by the good Doctor's format. Mainly as to why he would try to 3614 but not the 6063. Maybe I missed something earlier having just re-subscribed after a couple of month's vaca. And you thought you were rid of me. But I'm sitting here looking at the Fram box for a PH6063. The filter is plain black and the box indicates Italy as the source. But not where in Italy. The box plainly states that it fits: BMW K1, K75, C,S, RT; K100, LT, LS, RT; K1100,RS, LT; K1000RS REPLACES: BMW 11421460845, 11421460858 The box was printed with Germany as the source but a sticker stating Italy has been placed over that notice. The part number is also given as PH6063 10E. Sources: I picked up a couple from the Filterwerks folks out of Albuquerque New Mexico, Maria E. Gotta and Darren Thackeray I think they were, when they visited the 49er Rally. Their telephone number is (505) 266.0277 I believe the price was US $5. or $6. apiece. Which is still a savings over what the local dealers charge, US $15. And I think they cut you a deal if you buy a case. Now I haven't put but a few hundred miles on the K75, with this filter but so far I'm not noticing any thing different. I do run with Mobil 1 (15-50 wt). The Filterwerks folks went to some length to explain the differences and I don't understand why a change in oil filters would cause a bike to smoke unless it resulted in under lubricating the critical parts which could cause the cylinders to wear and pass more oil. But then I would expect a catastrophic failure or at least one which wouldn't just fix itself. So I'm curious as to what anyone else has to add to this question. Jonathan Jefferies From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 10 23:28:31 1997 X-Routed: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:13:58 -0500 X-Tcp-Identity: Dandy Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:11:14 -0400 From: "Daniel H. Toth" To: bruce reeves Cc: rwmundayNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Re: Filter change intervals Reply-To: "Daniel H. Toth" Bruce Reeves wrote: > > > > >To demonstrate this concept, try this. Don't bathe for a week, but put > >on fresh, clean > > >Robert > >'89 K100LT(A on the fritz) K-Whiner #47 Village Idiot Rolling > >Broccoli Rider > >Montgomery, Alabama > > > > What?? > > No way! I have a bath once a week wether I need it or not. > > Seriously I accept your point, I love machinery as much as you do. > But my main point is that I believe a large proportion of oils and filters > changed > from vehicles, are still in good servicable condition. > > Regards > Bruce Reeves > Armidale Australia > R100 GSPD 1992 > R75/6 and DJP Hack 1975 I remember back during the years of the 2nd World War when oil was in very short supply and rationed..... my Dad used to drain the oil from the car and store it in glass bottles (so he could see it) along the sides of the garage.... the longer it was stored, the clearer it got (as the impurities dropped to the bottom) and when it was to his satisfaction, he would use it over again, being careful to only pour out the clean oil! As I remember, this went on for years with no apparent problem for the engine of his car! Dan From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 11 19:04:25 1997 From: "John Outlan" To: "r1100 mail list" , "bmw-gs mail list" , "bmw mail list" Subject: BMW: Oil Question: SF, SG, SH, or SJ? (crossposted) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:31:06 -0400 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "John Outlan" Any comments from the oil gurus on this discussion of oil classifications from another list? I was totally unaware of this.... John O. Stefan writes: The new SJ classification have forced some manufacturers to change the composition of various chemicals in their oils to meet this new standard. I did go through some chemical analysis of HP4, Mobil 1, Golden Spectro and some others and they where different compared to what they were before. I used to prefer Mobil 1 but ,after seeing the new analysis, I now recommend Golden Spectro for those who use synthetic oil in their Gold Wing. There are many "oil experts" on this list so I am sure it'll get sorted out. Stefan On Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:37:48 -0500 "Patrick Casey" <2000manNoSpam@NoSpamWORLDNET.ATT.NET> writes: > >An unnamed writer in the June '97 issue of Motorcycle Cruiser magazine >(see >Tips & Tricks section) alleges that the new SJ oils are inferior to >the >older SF, SG standard as applied to motorcycle use. Has anyone else >heard >about this? I'm aware of at least one other recent article about >this, and >maybe a dim recollection of recent chit chat on the List about this. > >The person in the Motorcycle Cruiser article says shows a chart that >seems >to say that Honda (as well as other manufacturers) "warns against" the >use >of SH and SJ oils. > >If this be true, are we in danger of damaging our engines simply by >using >the most recent iteration of the oil standard? > >The Mobil 1 I've been using is all SJ, yet I notice that the HP-4 on >the >shelf is the older SF, SG. > >Patrick Casey >Austin, TX > ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ John H. Outlan - Lake Mary, FL (Orlando) joutlanNoSpam@NoSpamiag.net 1995 BMW R1100GS "El Buey" (Black) Windows NT4.0! Prez, Village Idiot, FOG #3, RA, MOA, AMA... Associate Member - Central Florida Beeline Beemers ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jul 14 18:40:05 1997 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:14:09 -0400 From: Alan & Karen Browne Organization: Alan Browne Contracting To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Re: Oil Filters Reply-To: Alan & Karen Browne > Dan wrote > > >Would some one out there help once and for all figure out the correct > >gasket order. Basically, in what order do the cream colored o ring and > >the flat steel gasket go? Does the steel go between the o ring and the > >filter? > > > > > >Here's what I'm dealing with: > > > >I have a 1974 R90/6 on which I have installed an cooler. > > > >I have an oil change kit (filter and square rubber o ring, paper gasket, > >flat steel washer, cream coloured rubber o ring, crush washer, two shall > >copper washers) > > > >I use hinged filters > > - -------------------- The flat Steel washer is to keep the oil fiter tube (called a jacket in the parts manual) from cutting the large 0-ring. Insert filter then steel washer then the large o-ring. There is a complete diagram and description of the variants to this in the front of the shop manual. If you need a copy of this page let me know, I'll attach one to an e-mail to you. Good luck Al Browne On the Blue Ridge, Maryland 47 Indian Chief 73 R75/5 69 Honda CB350 83 R100RS 69 R60 conv w/Ural 95 R1100RS From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 24 15:01:13 1997 From: "John Outlan" To: "BMW Mail List" Subject: BMW: Mobil 1 FAQ Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 14:09:42 -0400 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "John Outlan" For those interested, a Mobil 1 FAQ is located on the Web at: http://www.mobil.com/consumer/mobil1/mobil1/mobil1faq.html John O. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ John H. Outlan - Lake Mary, FL (Orlando) joutlanNoSpam@NoSpamiag.net 1995 BMW R1100GS "El Buey" (Black) Windows NT4.0! Prez, Village Idiot, FOG #3, RA, MOA, AMA... Associate Member - Central Florida Beeline Beemers ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ From blackadder Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:46:16 -0600 Subject: BMW: Oils well that... For some time I have thought about posting this. I realize that this is a sore subject with this group, but I don't have too much to say about Princess Di so I will go with oil. This may seem as though I posted to the wrong list, but bear with me. A little over a year ago I bought a Triumph Thunderbird to go with my R75. It is interesting how the subject of oil is treated on the Triumph list. There is no debate on with trumpet riders, synthetic is the only oil to use. The Triumph, like most bikes, uses the engine oil to lubricate the transmission. The Beemer is much easier on oil so the issue is not settled here. Triumph originally recommended using 10-40 semi synthetic for the Thunderbird. I called Triumph of America and asked why. They told me to call back when their expert was in, I did so and we had a long chat. He advised me to use a 10-30 fully synthetic asTriumph was no longer suggesting the 10-40. I asked if there would be any problems using a thinner oil. He said that in their tests, a thinner syn oil actually protected the engine better as it circulated throughout the engine faster. The thinner oil also provided more horsepower and better gas mileage. After our discussion, I called BMW. Could you use a thinner oil with the Beemer? It would stand to reason as the Beemer is less demanding on oil than the Trumpet. The lady at BMW promised that their expert would call me back. He didn't. So I thought I would throw this one out to the list. Should we use 10-30 in the Beemers? BTW, the expert at Triumph insisted that extensive testing proved that there is no difference in wear in longer oil change intervals. Changing oil before 6000 miles is a waste of time and money. Triumph uses Mobil 1, so I do not know if that applies to dino oil. Werner R75/7 Thunderbird Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 16:54:38 -0400 (EDT) From: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu (jim roche) Subject: BMW: Why For Not 2 Use Diesel In Your K Bike? >From: viper655NoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com (Dr.Robert A. Harms) >Subject: Re: BMW:Re:Diesel Engine Oil >> >>>I was always told that diesel spec oil , while "tougher" due to the >>>higher bearing load requirement didnt have gas engine-specific (and >>>necessary) additives. >> >>By whom? If you read my last posting on the RX-Super, it has a direct >>quote from the bottle specifically mentioning gasoline engines.. >> >>I'm wondering what the supposed missing additives would be? Any real >>knowledge of this - or is it just urban legend time? >> >> >>================================== >>Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ >>deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com >You may well be correct. My source of data (was told years ago by >diesel mechanics) may have been incorrect or is now out of date. >Is it possible that a cheaper is better scenario is possible ? > >Doc Dear Doc and Don, be careful -- someone might try putting some DA Diesel Rated oil in there K bike. If they do the engine will fail. Straight diesel oils don't stretch fast enough (their molecules would rather just let go and say good bye rather than hold hands -- no matter what -- like our better gasoline engine rated oil do.) Diesel oils don't like high RPMs and leave bearings unoiled enough to fail when you begin to really let it out RPMwize. Some of our new oils now can be used in anything with good results but in real heavy duty Diesel engines a heavy Diesel oil with big molecules is better for the high bearing pressure but low RPMs of most big boy diesels applications. Big molecule, thick oil, with low detergent content, made especially for diesels, also (and of course) has more room between the molecules so that carbon that gets past the diesel pistons rings can be absorbed more readily. Thats why diesel oil changes pure black so fast no matter how good your filter is. Our newer (especially 100% Synthetic) multi-rated and thinner oils with their high detergent content, smaller molecule structure, stay clean longer and can be squashed flatter than the diesel big glob stuff can. Even at higher RPMs and heats there is always a little shield of the smaller molecules left on the surface -- long after the big diesel oil molecules would have given up and left the area. Best, Jim(Dr.Curve)Roche jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu high performance old twins http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~jroche/index.html Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 19:09:42 -0500 From: "John L. Wilson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamlists.ibmwr.org, davewritNoSpam@NoSpamexecpc.com Subject: BMW: DOW Gear Guard Sender: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: "John L. Wilson" X-No-Archive: yes X-Bmw-List: Majordomo 1.94.3 X-Web-Page: http://www.ibmwr.org/ X-Copyright: (c) IBMWR and the original author(s). Dow Gear Gard is not the existing DOW product Name. I recently learned that DOW now calls the product "M Gear Oil Additive Product" SKU # 87675/1156357. It sells for $23.83 a US quart which is the minimum size available. I obtained the above information from a major DOW distributor and Rob Lentini confirmed that this was the product referred to as Gear Gard. Finding it in the minimum quart size is difficult. I have not found any yet. Perhaps BMW's new gear oil which is a synthetic and sells for $15 a quart is just as good but costs more--at least it is available. John =========================================================== John L. Wilson '93 VFR750F '95 R1100RS Tulsa, Oklahoma JlwilsnNoSpam@NoSpamflash.net HSTA #5817 IBMWR BMWMOA STOC #090 =========================================================== Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:48:10 -0600 From: "Eric vandenhoek" Organization: Colorado Springs Utilities X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) To: bobdehaneyNoSpam@NoSpamcsi.com, IBMWR Subject: BMW: Dow Gear Guard info... Sender: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: "Eric vandenhoek" X-No-Archive: yes X-Bmw-List: Majordomo 1.94.3 X-Web-Page: http://www.ibmwr.org/ X-Copyright: (c) IBMWR and the original author(s). DOW CORNING M GEAR OIL ADDITIVE (Formerly MOLYKOTE M Gear Guard) For more detailed info call 1-800-443-2932, follow the voice mail instructions and request literature # 7134948 and a spec sheet will be automatically faxed to you. I do know that the M gear guard is "not" recomended for use in synthetic oils. The product comes in 1qt, 5-gal and 55-gal kits. See attatched for spec sheet: Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:04:44 -0000 From: "Bob DeHaney" Subject: BMW: Gear Guard Can some one give me a Dow number on this stuff. I'm trying to find it in Germany. Bob in Munich '94 K1100RS -- Eric VanDenHoek '85 K100RS BMW http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/4488/ mailto:captainhoekNoSpam@NoSpamgeocities.com Pikes Peak BMW Riders - Newsletter Editor Got to be different =:~o MSF Instructor / MOA# 74038 / RC Pilot Learning from the difficulties of life is the key to living. Me Information About Specialty Lubricants Doc.#71349 product info. 517-496-6000 DESCRIPTION DOW CORNING M GEAR OIL ADDITIVE DOW CORNINGS M gear oil additive (Formerly MOLYKOTE M Gear Guard is a stable dispersion of molybdenum Type Dispersion of molybdenum disulfide in mineral oil disulfide, along with other extreme- Physical Form ................... liquid pressure and anti-wear additives, in Special Properties High load-carrying capacity a premium grade mineral oil. Other at slow speeds; compatible with most additives improve resistance to gear oils: resists foaming foaming, high-temperature oxi- Primary Use Extreme-pressure lubrication dation and enhance the product's additive to petroleum oils corrosion preventive properties. DOW CORNING M is compatible with most gear oils and has little effect on their viscosity or oxidation stability. Addition of Dow Corning M gear oil additive to petroleum lubricants, In many cases, has shown: DOW CORNING M gear OIL additive reduces pitting on steal rolling mill gear. Improvement of extreme-pressure Figure 1: Tooth flank of large steel rolling figure 2: Same gear tooth flank. 16 lubrication characteristics under mill gear shows conspicuous seizure months after the addition of 10 Percent shock loading or over-loading marks and heavy pitting before the by volume DOW CORNING M gear oil conditions add/lion of DOW CORNING M gear oil additive, shows the surface has become additive. noticeably smoother. Protection of metal surfaces under high loads, especially at slow TABLE l: EFFECT OF ADDING DOW CORNING M GEAR OIL ADDITIVE TO speeds, and during critical running- PETROLEUM OILS in periods (Typical load carrying capabilities as measured by Shell four-ball weld load - Lower friction and resultant lower ASTM D 2596) temperatures to extend lubricant and DOW CORNING M Gear Oil Additive gear life Oil volume percent added Reduction of metal-to-metal contact, 0% 5% 10% thereby minimizing galling, seizing Machine oil, 150 SSU and wear debris at 38 C (100 F) 100 kg 200 kg 300 kg Control of fretting corrosion often SAE 90 gear oil 320 kg 700 kg 950 kg associated with static loads during idle periods TYPICAL PROPERTIES These values are not intended for use in preparing specifications. USES Specific Gravity at 25 C (77 F) 0.96 DOW CORNING M gear oil additive is ASTM D 92 Flash Point, open cup, + C (+F) ..... 177 (350) primarily designed as an extreme- ASTM D 88 Viscosity, Saybolt seconds pressure lubrication additive for at 38 C (l Do F) ............ 270 petroleum oils. Typical applications at 99 C (210 F) 50 and benefits include: ASTM D 97 Pour Point, degrees ... -35 (-31 ) Gears- Gears lubricated by oil ASTM D 972 Evaporation after 22 hrs fortified with DOW CORNING M gear at 99 C (210 F), +C (+F) ..............0 oil additive have exhibited: Specification Writers: Please contact Dow Corning Corporation, Midland, Michigan, before writing specifications on this product. <~1qu4 Dow Corning (corporation All rightly ~eservra] Smoother surface finish of new or HOW TO USE cutting tools. In severe applications - reworked gear sets following critical Application Method heading, lapping, bobbing run-in DOW CORNING M gear oil additive DOW CORNING M gear oil additive may be used as supplied, or only Healing of tooth surface damage may be easily dispersed in most slightly diluted with oil with resultant reduction of pitting petroleum oils with little or no mixing. and wear debris (Figures 1 and 2) Its addition to gear oils containing PRECAUTION Lower operating temperature, noise phosphorus, sulfur and chlorine EP DOW CORNING M gear oil additive level and power usage due to agents can result in significant is not recommended for addition to reduction of friction improvement in the load carrying nonflammable or fire-resistant Longer service life of gear sets capability of the oil. Addition to oils hydraulic fluids or other synthetic containing lead naphthenate, however Bearings - The addition of will not show this effect to the same fluids such as polyglycois, diesters DOW CORNING M gear oil additive degree. or silicones. to oil-lubricated bearings minimizes DOW CORNING M gear oil additive wear at slow speeds and extreme The solid lubricant particles In DOW should not be used in components pressures. This is especially beneficial CORNING M gear oil additive have an that depend on friction for successful during startups and under conditions average size of 0.5 micron. The solids operation, such as friction clutches of shock loading and vibration. will easily pass through most and certain gear reducers that conventional oil filters that normally Machine Tools - DOW CORNING M retain particles larger than 10 microns Incorporate friction-activated back gear oil additive added to the oil stops to prevent gravity reversal in the reservoir minimizes stick-slip on DOW CORNING M gear oil additive is event of power failure. machine ways, slides and screws, designed for use with oils in Spray, Experience has shown that excessive and promotes smooth action in mist or wick-type lubrication systems, water contamination of o Is containing servomechanisms, transmissions and as well as In oil reservoirs supplying DOW CORNING M gear oil additive power-feed systems. For such splash. flood or drip-feed lubrication. can be detrimental to the dispersion components not oil lubricated, use Recommended Concentrations and cause settling of the solid DOW CORNING G-n metal assembly The optimum concentrations of lubricant. paste or DOW CORNING G-n metal DOW CORNING M gear oil additive as CAUTION an additive to petroleum-based lubri- Metalworking - The addition of cants varies in different applications. DOW CORNING M gear oil additive DOW CORNING M gear oil additive line following general guidelines are may cause irritation. Avoid skin and to metalworking fluids and cutting oils suggested: eye contact. can increase tool life by lowering friction and heat, and by reducing Gears - 5 to 10 percent by volume, SHIPPING LIMITATIONS metal pick-up on work-contact areas. condition of equipment. For best None. It has reduced the fore required, improved the cutting action And running-in results, DOW CORNING M STORAGE AND SHELF LIFE produced a better surface gnash in G-n metal assembly spray or When stored below 32 C (90 F), many metalworking applications. It Is DOW CORNING G-n metal assembly DOW CORNING M gear oil additive useful in such operations as broach- paste should be applied initially on the has a shell life of 60 months from date ing, gear hobbing, drilling, tapping, gear teeth before start-up. of manufacture from Dow Corning. cutting, stamping, punching, drawing, thread rolling and cold heading. Machine Tools - 3 to 10 percent by PACKAGING DOW CORNING M gear oil additive is volume, depending on condition of not intended for addition to water- equipment and loads on table ways. DOW CORNING M gear oil additive Is available In 1-qt (2-lb) bottles. 5-gal soluble cutting oils, although such Cutting Fluids - 3 to 10 percent by (40-lb) pails and 55-gni (440-lb) drums. applications have sometimes been volume, depending on material being All weights, net successful. machined and its tendency to weld to From: "Matt & Nikki" To: "Brian Curry" Cc: "BMW List" Subject: Re: BMW: BMW Synthetic Oils-Spectro Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:26:35 -0400 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Sender: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: "Matt & Nikki" X-No-Archive: yes X-Bmw-List: Majordomo 1.94.3 X-Web-Page: http://www.ibmwr.org/ X-Copyright: (c) IBMWR and the original author(s). Hi Guys, Well, that would be interesting if it were a Valvoline product (heck, they're right here, dontchaknow). But, the fact is Spectro is doing the deal. Matt Thornbury Ashland, KY USA 900 SP K12RS (here!) ---------- > From: Brian Curry > To: Scott Armstrong ; bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com > Subject: Re: BMW: BMW Synthetic Oils > Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 4:57 PM > > > At 02:57 PM 4/23/98 -0500, Scott Armstrong wrote: > > > >Has anyone seen an announcement from BMWNA that they have come out with BMW > >branded synthetic engine and transmission oils? > > Yes, and it is blended by Valvoline BTW. > > If true, it will be very > >interesting to see their recommendations as to when it can be used (after > >10K miles?). > > The answer is after the 600 mile service for the tranny and rear end, and > after 6K or when oil consumption stablizes/quits for the engine. (Some > people might never get to use it....) > > > Brian Curry | "The irony of the Information Age is that it Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:04:23 -0400 From: Timothy Summers Subject: BMW: API Oil ratings, was something else X-Sender: 1083s48o91huNoSpam@NoSpammail00.internetMCI.com To: Larry Wilbers , bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Sender: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Timothy Summers X-No-Archive: yes X-Bmw-List: Majordomo 1.94.3 X-Web-Page: http://www.ibmwr.org/ X-Copyright: (c) IBMWR and the original author(s). Larry wrote: >The prefix for Mobil 1 is allowed for the K12RS. However, the repair manual >does not mention the suffix of CF as being permissible. > >Any thoughts on this? > Larry, Prezzes: My understanding is that the CF designation relates to a certification for diesel engines, so to us it's irrelevant. It's the SJ rating that concerns me. Honda is advising use of SG for motorcycle engines, particularly those whose clutches share the engine oil, so this is less of a concern for most Beemers. Apparently, the SJ (and SH also, I think) series contains some sort of "friction reducers" that, in effect, go too far towards reducing friction in the case of bike engines/clutches. I spose these additives can help the SUV/light truck gas hogs pass the EPA mileage tests. Presumably, this was the basis for Castrol's recent launch of a whole line of motorcycle specific oils. I just put Castrol's full synth. oil in my K12 (at 12K). I have to tell you, though, that I regretted not asking my local independent wrench "how much" before having him order it. $6.50/quart! And list price is almost $9.00. I'm really more concerned about SWMBO's YZF600, though, into which I just poured 4 quarts of Mobil 1 15W-50 (complete with the SJ rating). Not so concerned that I'll change it "before it's time" though. Maybe a petroleum engineer Prez can help us sort this one out. Tim in Anderson, SC USA