From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed May 21 15:28:40 1997 From: kimdNoSpam@NoSpamnit.AirTouch.COM (Kim Dromlewicz) Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:57:01 -0700 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Top End Instalation Cc: scallonNoSpam@NoSpamnewton.apple.com Reply-To: kimdNoSpam@NoSpamnit.AirTouch.COM (Kim Dromlewicz) Greg asks: > 1. When reinstalling the push rod tube seals, should they be lightly > lubricated with engine oil or just installed dry? > Definitely NOT oiled. My preferance is with a thin smear of silicone rubber sealant (any kind will do, it doen't get THAT hot there). That way it will never leak. BTDT many times. >2. .... I can see where they originally were placed and thought >that moving them up a couple of milimeteres would give me a little added >squish to my push rod seals. Is this OK, or am I really off base here? This is OK. Just don't clamp the clamps too tight to where they start to crush the tubes. > 3. I've been told to install the base gaskets and head gaskets dry. > Correct? > Head gaskets DEFINITELY dry. On base gaskets I have always used a THIN smear of silicone rubber. Thin is the operative word here and then install them right away. Make sure all mating surfaces are dry and free of any oil. That way you will have NO oil leakage around the base of the cylinders. Once again, I have used general purpose silicone sealant every time on every bike and no problems. If you are worried about mildew then use the bathtub version that is mildew resistant. :-) Seeing as how you are in the area we should get together sometime. Wouldn't mind seeing your conversion. Kim +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Kim Dromlewicz | e-mail : kimdNoSpam@NoSpamnit.airtouch.com Senior Systems Engineer | telephone : (510)-672-2112 (home) AirTouch Cellular, | telephone : (510)-279-6200 (office) 2785 Mitchell Drive, MS 8-2 | FAX : (510)-279-6317 (office) Walnut Creek, CA 94598 | BOOF # : 20 1972 R60/5 Black very reliable, gets there (vroom) 1980 R100RT Smoke Red very reliable, gets there fast (VROOM) 1995 Sheltie Sable very reliable, goes here and there (Vrowf) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue May 27 03:54:40 1997 From: "David R. Norton" To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 00:13:34 -0700 Subject: BMW: Proper engine assembly Reply-To: "David R. Norton" > Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:52:10 -0400 (EDT) > From: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu (jim roche) > Subject: BMW: One Drop, No Drop, Or Dew Drop Break In. The good Dr. says: > >> All this"break it in like you're gonna run it" advice is simular to > >> the one drop only or crank it dry to set the rings trite. And I responded: > >Hardly similar, as the "one drop" or "assemble the cylinder dry" is > >correct advice. I know you have never tried this, because if you > >had, you would support it. You do members of the list a dis-service > >arguing against proper, tried, tested and successful techniques. And the good Dr. elaborates on his ignorance of engine assembly with: > Dear David, build them as you wish. Use dew drops if you want. > Rev it at once to 5000 RPM's and hold it there. Tatoo "Break It In > Hard' on your forearm. I don't assembly engines that way. Ever. I > don't suggest that anyone assembly pistons dry to then move them > even one inch while touching another dry metal surface. Its about > burnishing in -- not breaking in, or scraping in, or sanding in. > This is cheap peep, low tech, quick fix, beside the track advice. Wrong, of course. It's the proper technique to assure proper ring seal and long life. I see in an issue of the BMW ON it was taught by BMW NA (when they did their own training?). And yes, it is about burnishing in which is prevented or delayed by oil on the surfaces. You're also wrong in thinking this has anything to do with break-in, after an engine is assembled and run for the few seconds required to seat the rings, normal break in is required. > I respect you and your ideas and know your ring jobs will last many > miles as long as your luck holds out -- but one day you are going > to break a ring upon cranking dry and then quick revving to "cut > fit" your bore. It hasn't happened on what is probably over 100 engines, ranging from 100cc singles to big block V8s. Remember, I did this for a living. It also hasn't happened on the thousands of engines built this way by others. > You will always have more scratches on the pistons and walls and > over time this type of cavalier tech will carry over into other > areas like cam and crank bearings. Tear downs immediately after show perfectly burnished cylinder walls and *no* scratches. This has not only been done by me but by the tests published. In each case, the cylinders assembled dry have had a more perfect surface and higher compression than those assembled with oil. But since you haven't tried it, you wouldn't know, would you? Why not give it a try, next time you're assembling a cylinder? You just might learn what most others have learned, there's a better way that eliminates oil burning for hundreds of miles during break-in, eliminates the clogged oil rings resulting from excessive oil on the cylinder walls and is particularly valuable in airheads in that it eliminates blow-by. > To dry start a engine is plain dumb. No, it's proper. Back in the 1930s, slathering oil on the cylinders was considered proper, by the 1950s, engine builders were learning better.... Come join the 1990s! Thought for the day: A penny saved is ridiculous. David R. Norton Phoenix, Arizona USA From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue May 27 15:19:31 1997 From: Carlos Rubinstein To: Cc: X-E97Account: 1 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:27:28 Subject: Re: BMW: Freeing a Stuck Engine - KROIL Reply-To: Carlos Rubinstein In your message you wrote: >gear. (Really, I don't think I dreamed this :-) Yesterday, no such luck. >Needless to say, the kickstarter won't move with the transmission in neutral, >either. I suspect the rings are stuck to the cylinder walls. What do you >think? Short of removing the heads, is there anything I can do to free up the >engine? > >--Joe DeLuca > Dayton, OH > Contact KANO Laboratories at: 1000 S. Thompson Lane Nashville, TN 37211 615-833-4101 Buy the Trial size Aerosol of KROIL for US$6 (20 Oz. spray). They pick up the shipping and it arrives within a week. Spray (there's also a liquid but I don't have the price, the trial sizes are all about US$6) into the spark plug holes and add a bottle or two to your recycle bin ;-)(10-30 minutes). Try again with the rear wheel. Voila! I used it to release the 20-year-old exhaust bolts on my Honda. I know a mechanic who broke a couple of hammers, used the kickstarter _and_ a four foot extension on his breaker bar simultaneously, and almost broke the engine case on a stuck-piston bike, to no avail. Ten minutes of the liquid KROIL in the cylinder (non-BMW) and the cylinder was free! They also sell a bunch of other products; rust remover, oil/fuel additive, degreaser, etc. I'm not an associate or partner, just a plainly amazed customer. Good Luck! Carlos Rubinstein Bay Area, CA From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue May 27 21:12:15 1997 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Cc: delNoSpam@NoSpamcais.com Subject: BMW: Re: Oil Change - The better choice in FRAM filiters References: <199705270352.XAA02633NoSpam@NoSpameurope.std.com> X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,8-14,18-24,29-30,38-45 From: garymarshNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Gary McCray) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:37:34 EDT Reply-To: garymarshNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Gary McCray) Oil Change There has been discussions on the list concerning BMW/Non-BMW oil/oil filters as which is the best to use and why. (snip) ==== Check the list FAQ at http://www.ibmwr.org/bmwfaq.html or the IBMWR home page at www.ibmwr.org. Correct filter sub is Fram PH3614. See list... (snip) ==== I think the better choice of FRAM oil filter for all K-bikes and Oil Heads is the PH6063. It is made to BMW specs. I've used the PH3614 and it says nothing on the box about being for BMW motorcycles and the BMW oil filter wrench will not fit it. The side of the box for the PH6063 says: This filter fits: Motorcycles BMW K1, K75, C, S, RT; K100, LT, LS(sic), RT; K1100, RS, LT; K1000RS(sic) REPLACES: BMW 114211460845, 11421460858 Since the Oils Heads take the same filter as the K-bikes, this one would fit them as well. The BMW filter wrench fits the PH6063 like a glove. The PH3614 *will* fit on the engine, but there is some question as to whether the pressure relief valve is of the specifications set for BMW motorcycles. As for oil: BMW oil is made by Spectro. It is the exact same formula (according to the president of Spectro Oil) as the dino variety Spectro brand, with one exception. The anti-shearing additive that is in Spectro for bikes that share engine and transmission oil is not in the BMW brand. In my BMW Owners Manual, they mention "special" oils, of which BMW and Spectro Oils are 2. The lighter viscosities (10W40) of these "special" oils are approved by BMW for use where regular oils of the 20W50 variety are recommended. Marketing gimmick? GMc <> << Macarena Red Metallic '97 R1100RT>> <> From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu May 29 21:12:12 1997 Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 04:44:27 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Don Eilenberger Subject: BMW: RE: 85 K100RS "Bulbs" on Fuel Injector Vents? Hiccuping Cc: "James Mulligan" , waltNoSpam@NoSpamdiusys.cms.udel.edu (Walt Dabell) Reply-To: Don Eilenberger Jim hiccups his way to a question: >Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 11:19:20 +0000 >From: "James Mulligan" >Subject: BMW: 85 K100RS "Bulbs" on Fuel Injector Vents? Hiccuping > >Aloha All! > >My 85 K100 RS has been "hiccuping" for a few weeks now. It only >happens at low rpm (less than 1.5K), while idling and sometimes while >accelerating from a stopped idle. > >This past weekend while taking various parts off the bike to replace >the clutch cable I noticed that my forward most fuel injector looked >a little different than the others. > >On all four injectors there is a valve of sorts immediately to the >right of the injector. This valve rises straigt up maybe for an inch >or so. > >On the rearmost injector there is a tube running into this valve. On >the middle two injectors there are rubber "bulbs" covering the top of >the valve. On the forward injector there is nothing. > >Since this leaped out at me as soon as I saw it, I'm assuming there >was always a "bulb" on the forward injector as well. And that its >loss is what is causing my bike to "hiccup". > >Does this sound reasonable? > >Mahalo/Thanks! > >Jim Actually - what you're seeing are the vacuum takeoffs for the throttle bodies. The injectors are those things in front'of'em with the wires going to them connected to the square thing on top - which is your fuel rail. In the beginning (K100 in the US) - the front one (the one that you're missing a 'bulb' offa) was connected to the secondary fuel injection map vacuum switch. A hose ran from it around the front'a the forward throttle body to a switch mounted on the rear of the throttle body assembly. This switch was often disconnected - since it was found that the secondary map had no real effect (it was supposed to slightly improve fuel economy at partial throttle). When the switch was disconnected, usually the hose was also removed - and the vacuum takeoff was SUPPOSED to be sealed up with onna those little bulbs.. The two middle takeoffs don't have anything connected to them, the rearmost one has a hose connected to your fuel pressure regulator. SO - you need onna those little bulb thingies.. and actually if it was me (I've BTDT) - I'd replace'em all (about $0.25/each), since if one dried up and fell off - the other guys are thinking about it. Since this is causing a lean condition (big air leak) - it could cause some not-correct-running-condition (ie, mebbe the hiccups..) Now - for my lecture on K intakes (supposed to be given at Square Root, but the weather may do people outta the pleasure of hearing it): ========================================================================= If you own an early K bike - it is worth your while to check for intake leaks. ========================================================================= What can intake leaks cause? Less than optimal running. Rough running and VIBRATIONS. Loss of fuel milage. And in bad cases - burned valves from the lean mixture. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why do the leaks form? Rubber gets old. Rubber gets old and hard with age and HEAT. K bikes are hot. K100's are even hotter. K100RT's are the hottest of all - and 1/2 of the heat gets outta the radiator by flowing right around all the rubber intake bits. Nothing lasts forever.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where are the points it can leak? Around the injector seals, around the throttle-body to head rubber mount. And any hoses connected to the vacuum takeoffs. (Secondary map switch hose, fuel-pressure regulator hose). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- How do I test for leaks: Two ways will work.. (a) hook a fuel-pressure gauge up to the fuel rail and watch the pressure. If it's bouncing all over the place, your rear throttle body has a leak, especially if you disconnect the vacuum hose going to the pressure regulator and the fuel pressure stabilizes (someplace around 40PSI - so use a gauge and hose that will take the pressure. (b) even easier - a can of flammable carb cleaner.. take the bike OUTSIDE (keep a fire extinguisher handy in case you're a real klutz), start it up, let it idle, and using the little red tube on the can of carb cleaner - give little spritz's around each injector, and around the base of the rubber mounts. ANY (ANY!!!) change in RPM means you've gotta leak. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- How do I know this? My K started running really crappy (hunting idle, rough at low speeds) on the way back from Square Root last year. I at first thought it was bad gas - and started checking the fuel-pressure to see if something was plugged. Nothing was, but the bouncing of the fuel-pressure led me to try step (b) and find that 3 outta 4 of my throttle bodies had leaks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- What to do about it? Fix it. Either you, or the dealer. It took me about 7-8 hours to remove everything, gild some lillies, clean it all up and reassemble. I take my time and am somewhat anal about it all being "exactly right" - you should also. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's it cost? Cost to me was around $200. $100 in parts (there are some one-time-use clamps involved, plus I replaced ALL the fuel-injection hoses and vacuum hoses). And - another $100 to have my injectors reverse flushed, flow-rated and new seals put on'em. Cost at a dealer is prolly gonna involve something like 4-6 hours labor (more for an RT since you've gotta get more outta the way first). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- What was the result? Well, before I did this, I had set the idle-bypass screws on the bike to achieve balance in my carb-stix.. there were considerable differences between the screw settings. I *did not* adjust the adjustments connecting the throttle bodies, mostly 'cause I didn't get to it, and also partly 'cause the manuals STRONGLY recommend against doing this. My carb sticks indicated some misbalance at higher RPMs, but not awful since the leaks become a small part of the total flow rate at higher RPMs.. When I was cleaning things up, I'd removed the throttle bypass adjusting screws - both to clean the passages and to put new O rings on'em (like I said - I replaced every bit of rubber I could get at..). When I put them back in, I preset them to the sorta univeral setting for any carb or FI screw, 1 1/2 turn out from bedded position. When I started the bike, I had the carb-stix connected. They immediately indicated exactly the same vacuum on every stick. When I gave it some throttle, they moved up exactly the same and dropped exactly the same. The only adjustment I had to make was to the throttle speed screw.. and I could now get the bike to idle very smoothly at 800 RPM vs the suggested 1000-1050 RPM. It is still set at 800 RPM.. and idling nicely. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is it worth doing? Well, it sure is worth checking for leaks! Could save you a burned valve, or at the least reduce vibration and improve your fuel milage.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry for the LONG take Jim, but thought I'd tell it here since I may get rained out for Square Root.. prolly more than you ever wanted to know.. (Walt - can this go into the K bike FAQ? I'm getting tired of typing it out!) BTW - while you're in the area, it would be a PERFECT time to also replace the throttle cable. Won't get any easier than doing it at the same time. I understand the new design (which requires replacement of a bracket on the back of the throttle body) is a product improvement thingie from BMW - so you *should* be able to get the parts for free from your dealer. I didn't know this - and bought the cable and new mount - cost was around $35 or so.. check with your dealer on this.. if you still have the cable with the adjuster in the middle - you've got the old cable design. Best, ======================================= Don Eilenberger Spring Lk Hts, NJ, USA deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com ======================================= From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri May 30 09:53:34 1997 Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:10:04 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamfacteur.std.com From: Don Eilenberger Subject: BMW: RE: Oil pressure switch replacement Cc: frodo4NoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com (John Souders) Reply-To: Don Eilenberger Someone after my own heart asks: >Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:24:11 -0500 (CDT) >From: frodo4NoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com (John Souders) >Subject: BMW: Oil pressure switch replacement > >I need to replace thre oil pressure switch on my R75/5 as it is weeping >oil over my boot. > >Are there any cheap replacements ie BMW 2002 etc. > >Thanks >John John - check any auto parts store.. ask for one for a VW beatle.. almost any year will do. Cost is usually about $7.. don't have any idea what a BMW dealer gets for'em.. never bought one from a dealer. Screws in, plugs in, works and the NAPA ones seem more resistant to weeping than the stock ones.. (BTDT on beemers AND bimmers..). OH - if they ask what year (for some reason they are compelled to do this.. guess it's the book..) tell'em, ummm 1970.. FWIW - standard oil-pressure switch ON is 7PSI.. which is pretty damn low, but it is the 'standard'.. ================================== Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com ================================== From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri May 30 10:27:08 1997 From: bkeaheyNoSpam@NoSpamuswest.com To: Don Eilenberger , bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamfacteur.std.com, frodo4NoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 06:51:35 MDT Subject: Re: BMW: RE: Oil pressure switch replacement Reply-To: bkeaheyNoSpam@NoSpamuswest.com Addressed to: Don Eilenberger bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpameurope.std.com frodo4NoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com ** Reply to note from Don Eilenberger Fri, 30 May 1997 09:10:04 -0400 > John - check any auto parts store.. ask for one for a VW beatle.. > almost any year will do. Cost is usually about $7.. don't have > any idea what a BMW dealer gets for'em.. never bought one from > a dealer. Screws in, plugs in, works and the NAPA ones seem > more resistant to weeping than the stock ones.. (BTDT on beemers > AND bimmers..). OH - if they ask what year (for some reason they > are compelled to do this.. guess it's the book..) tell'em, ummm 1970.. > > FWIW - standard oil-pressure switch ON is 7PSI.. which is pretty > damn low, but it is the 'standard'.. Maybe, but better take the old switch in to match up with the new one. Even from the BMW dealer where I got mine, I asked for and received an oil pressure switch for my bike; when I got home, I discovered that the switch I'd been sold had a different thread than the switch I was replacing, although the two parts looked identical otherwise. Back to the dealer; sure enough, they are not all the same for . all years airheads. Bruce G. Keahey, U S WEST Advanced Technologies, Boulder, CO "Be cautious in the use of stupidity, a little goes a long way." From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat May 31 23:49:20 1997 Date: Sat, 31 May 97 12:09:18 UT From: "errol amy" To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com, "Bruce Reeves" Subject: RE: BMW: "Sidecar Corner" - Airhead oil temperature Reply-To: "errol amy" Yours runs at 100 deg C? That's low! I put a Luftmeister oil sip stick temp guage on my R100/7 and spent the next 2,000 miles in a panic! It was running at 240-260 F at highway speeds. In town, I had to force myself to not look down at the guage. I posted on the Genie net about my fears. I have a couple of old airplanes and they are redlined at 240 F and this bike was running above that normally in the warmer months. Anyway, the suggestions I got fromt he net was to loose the guage and ride. I did and I do. budamy ---------- From: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com on behalf of Mark Weiss Sent: Friday, May 30, 1997 10:51 PM To: Bruce Reeves; bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: "Sidecar Corner" - Airhead oil temperature > >The R75/6 is running too hot hauling the rig and family around so >I'm on the market for ; > > > * oil cooler assembly from later R100 etc & > > * Deep sump from same > > >(or an equivalent non genuine working replacements?) > > >The temperature hovers around 100 degrees centigrade, much too hot >I am told. > Even riding in Arizona desert summers I never had any problems with my R90 overheating, and I never worried about it. After about 150k miles I got an oil temperature gauge and began to see how hot things were really getting!! I worried a lot more, but the bike didn't run any differently. I never worried about my charging system, then I installed a dasboard voltmeter... Mark S. Weiss mark_weissNoSpam@NoSpamearthlink.net MSF Certified Instructor Chandler (SE of Phoenix) Arizona R100RS, R90/?!, R75/5, CB400F Ride Well, and Ride Safe. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jun 10 21:13:38 1997 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:38:44 -0500 From: twocyl To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Cc: airheadsNoSpam@NoSpammicapeak.com Subject: BMW: re: Ignition System Woes (fixed) Reply-To: twocyl Hi All, Thanks for all the input from everyone! I pulled the tank, cleaned and regreased the ignition module, cleaned the module connector, cleaned the the primary wire connectors on the coils and put a new battery in. It hasn't missed a beat in two days of riding since. Now, I wonder what fixed it?? Mark Ayotte Southington, CT. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jun 24 12:16:22 1997 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 11:38:53 -0400 From: Bill To: desoineNoSpam@NoSpammtu.edu, BMW List Subject: BMW: CV diaphragm cheap fix X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Reply-To: Bill > > Friends: > > Of course the old diaphragm has a half inch tear > and it looks like the replacement part is on the slow boat from SE Asia. > > Is there any way to repair the leak in the old carb diaphragm? Even > a temporary fix would help me get all the "test and repair validation > rides" taken care of before the new carb diaphragm arrives. :) > > TIA and again my apologies, but I know there is no topic the > expert tightwads on this list cannot tackle. > > :) > > Dave Dave, I have had the same problem on CV carb bikes also. Try using a latex glove and some Permatex #2 non hardening sealant. 1. Cut a patch out of the glove that will cover the tear ( use scissors not knife ) 2. Coat crack with permatex on the pressure side. ( bottom ) Use a very thin layer. 3. Cover with latex patch so that the edge of the latex reaches the metal seat on the carb body. 4. Carefully reassemble the carb top, make sure you have the spring seated in the spring recess on the cover. That should do it, It has worked on a friends bike now for 2 months while we have waited for the part. ( he drives the bike every day so I guess it actually works pretty well ) Bill Heckel Former mechanic and ex cheapscate ( OK well sort of ex ). 1975 R90/6 No 2 parts are bolted together now. :( 1994 R100 Mystic Still works perfectly. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jun 24 23:41:29 1997 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: NO BMW (well, not much) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 20:24:38 PDT From: Harmon Sommer Reply-To: Harmon Sommer BMW Motorcycle Buyers Guide has two photos of Supercharged BMW. One with Schorsch Meier winning the 1939 Isle of Man Senior Tourist Trophy race and the second, taken at the 1981 Old Timers Grand Prix (Waller Zeller up) A Norton and an Ariel are also shown. Their riders are looking at the supercharger with less than enthusiasm. >Supercharging. Compress the air coming in, as in the VW G-lader >supercharger which is a true compressor (as opposed to the Roots-type >blower, more commonly used in hot-rodding and drag racing, which just >throws gobs of air into the engine). Or cool it, as with an intercooler. > Allen Engine Development Co describes the Roots, Vane, G-Lader, and Screw type superchargers as 'positive displacemnent' devices. Single stage centrifugal compressors can achieve pressure ratios of 4:1. (Turbochargers, Hugh Macinnes). They all use different methods to 'throw gobs of air into the engine', or,increase manifold pressure; they are all air pumps or compressors. Macinnes also quotes some work done by Harry Ricardo in the 20's or 30's with supercharging and water injection. Basically, Ricardo ran an engine at constant speed at WOT with different fuel/air ratios and different manifold pressure. Starting at 0.4lb/bhp_hr and just enough boost to verge on detonation, he achieved a brake-mean-effective pressure of 120 psi. Increasing mixture and boost gradually, he got to the point where, with 0.6lb/bhp_hr he was able to increase the boost such that he got almost 240 psi bmep; just about doubled the horse power. But this was the limit, further enriching started to reduce maximum allowable boost. Then he added water spray and reduced the fuel such that at the limit he was running about 0.45lb fuel and 0.35lb of water per bhp and with enough boost to give 290 psi bmep; another 20% or so of power increase. He did not go higher because his dynomometer could not absorb any more horsepower. Old military airplanes used to have the fuel 'octane' ratings stenciled on their fuselage. Example: a B-29 (well, real old airplane) would have (If I remember correctly) 100-130 stenciled for fuel 'octane'. Actually, they were performance numbers which informed the driver that with a lean mixture the engines would produce 100% of max power with some minimum boost, and with a rich mixture they would produce 130% of max power with much higher boost. I never had to fiddle with any of that, The only use I had for AvGas was to clean off radomes. We were supposed to use soap and water, but not too many fuel tanks had any, so we used gasoline. Knowing what I do now about lead's toxicity, I would have opted for the soap. etc. harmonsNoSpam@NoSpamsequent.com (Harmon Sommer)xx From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 25 17:13:42 1997 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:09:28 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamfacteur.std.com From: Don Eilenberger Subject: BMW: RE: BMW Tech: '85K stalls - scary! Cc: Dan Glennie Reply-To: Don Eilenberger >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:54:57 -0400 >From: Dan Glennie >Subject: BMW: BMW Tech: '85K stalls - scary! > >Hi All, > >Last year my '85K started running rough. I took it to the dealer, who >replaced the fuel filter, ran diagnostics, yadda, yadda - found nothing >and sent me off with a jug 'o injector cleaner. > >The symptoms persisted, and seem to be getting worse. I've had a few low >speed (usually, but not always, cold) stalls, nearly resulting in >embarassing parking lot drops. About a week ago, I was riding briskly >down a favorite local road and the bike cutout for an instant - total >power loss, battery light on, etc. This was in a corner, so my lean >angle increased a bit (yikes), but the spinning wheel fired the bike >again and it seemed fine the rest of the way home. > >I figure it's not injectors (all quit at once?!) and the new fuel filter >points elswhere - fuel pump? electrical? > >Has anyone had a similar experience or know of other things to look for? > >BTW, I'm in a panic cause I'm not risking any long trips or fast-paced >rides for fear of another total power loss. And this is the peak of a >short New England summer! Help! > >TIA, > >Dan >glennieNoSpam@NoSpamtiac.net Dan, I know T-Cora passed along info to check, ie: Ignition switch Hall-Effect sensor These are possible candidates, as are: 1. Igntion computer. 1985 models had a 'campaign' to replace the ignition boxes - they were TOO well sealed up, and moisture inside caused failures. I'm sure there are some records on the VIN numbers effected (you may have one after the problem was corrected), and the dealer CAN look it up or have BMW-NA run a check to see if you got a new/improved one. 2. Main-relay. If it cuts out - you stop. Common problem on older Bimmer (4-wheel) Bosch injected cages. It can be intermittent like you describe as it is starting to fail. Would have'ta look at my manuals (at home) to tell you which one it is.. but I believe it is interchangeable with one from 1980's series Bimmers (I carry a spare for each relay on the bike - they're leftovers from my '87 535i spares). 3. Fuel-tank electrical connection. A good probability - it is left-front lower corner under the tank. Depending on your model (Standard, RS, RT?) it is possibily accessable without disassembly.. on my RT I can reach in between the side-vents on the lower fairing and check it. It is nearby the fuel-lines to the front of the tank. People have noted these loosening up with age, and have used tin-foil to fix (I'd remove the tank, clean and tighten up the female connectors myself). If it is intermittent - it will cause intermittent fuel-pump non-running-failures. 4. Any other of a myriad of electrical connectors. I'd take every one you can find apart, and clean and lubricate them. 5. Kill-switch on right handlebar.. 6. Cracked coil - never seen it myself, but have heard of it on early K's) I realize this is awfully vague - and I don't think anyone can point you to an exact cause. The fact that your battery light stayed on makes me think your ignition switch is probably OK.. so, one thing easy to check: The rough running, lousy idle you mention are exactly the symptoms I experienced to a lesser degree on my '85K with leaky trottle-body to head intake-stubs. These lead to large un-metered intake leaks.. not good. To test is easy (I think I've posted this many times, butt..): 1. Bike OUTSIDE 2. Spray can of FLAMMABLE carb cleaner 3. Fire-extingusher (just in case) A. Bike idling B. Spritz small quantities of the carb cleaner around the injectors and intake bodies C. ANY and I mean **ANY** change in idle means a leak. If you have one the idle will race momentarily. Replacing these was about an 8 hour job for me.. it is not a trivial job, butt the great running engine when you're done makes it worth it. I also had the injectors cleaned, backflushed, flowrated and replaced all the injector seals at the same time. Rubber gets old with heat/age.. and a K100 has plenty of heat, and your bike IS 12-13 years old. At one time, I wrote up the entire procedure, but I don't think it ever made it to a FAQ.. HTH! ================================== Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com ================================== From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jun 29 11:17:23 1997 X-Sent-Via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ From: "Rob Lentini" To: "IBMWR" , "Oilhead" , "Paul Glaves" , "Dali Meeow" , "Carl Kulow" , "Jon Diaz" , "Walt Dabell" , "Joe Senner" , "Steve Aikens" Subject: BMW: "Zero=Zero" -- An addendum Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 08:02:38 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" I've run across two minor problems with my "zero=zero" TPS/synch procedure for oilheads. Here they are, and the fixes: 1. TOO HIGH A FINAL IDLE SPEED DESPITE BYPASS SCREWS BEING SEATED. My instructions are to set the left stopscrew to .370 volts, which approximates the lower value of .370 - .400 that others such as Jon Diaz have reported as the normal TPS range. On some machines this setting will result in a higher than normal idle speed, say around 1400 RPM, that cannot be reduced by going CW with the bypass screws. FIX: Reduce the TPS voltage with the left stop screw in increments of .020 volts (.370, .350, .330, etc) and resynch with the right stop screw until an idle speed of 1000 RPM is achieved with the bypasses closed. Then open the bypasses and re-synch with them to achieve final idle speed of 1100-1200 RPM. 2. ENGINE WON'T RUN AFTER "ZERO=ZERO" WITH BYPASSES SEATED. I ran across this problem while working on an R1100R at Fredericksburg. This may occur on other GS/R types since the throttle bodies are different than RS/RT versions. I pulled my hair for awhile until I opened the bypasses equally 1/2 turn CCW and the motor idled (albeit very slowly). The INITIAL opening (BMW spec) of the bypasses on RS/RT machines is 1 1/2 turns, and on the GS/Rs is 2 1/4 turns making the "control" of the bypasses on the GS/Rs much more pronounced. FIX: After setting the TPS to zero=zero it is time to do the super-accurate mechanical synch with the right stop screw. On some machines, notably GSs and Rs, you may have to open the bypasses some to get the machine to idle so as to perform the mechanical synch. If necessary (and don't do this if not required), EQUALLY open each bypass 1/4, 1/2, or whatever turns or fractions thereof is required for the motor to idle. The less open the better, because we want to do this mechanically and minimize bypass irregularities. It occurred to me that, alternatively, one could set the TPS upwards of .400. We tried this on Deb's machine with unsatisfactory results. Too high a value above .400 might interfere with auto fuel cutoff on engine deceleration (but NO, this will NOT set a Motronic fault). Respectfully, Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ (520) 790-8865 (H), (520) 295-6411 (B) '94 R 1100 RS Three Flags 97 #205 MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA BMWMOA Board Member "Elect" "LET'S RIDE MORE AND POLITIC LESS" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 30 15:03:26 1997 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:24:20 -0400 (EDT) From: bartonNoSpam@NoSpamesdim1.esdim.noaa.gov To: ibmwr , Jerome Cook Cc: bartonNoSpam@NoSpamesdim1.esdim.noaa.gov, Jim Bessette Subject: BMW: R1100 surging Reply-To: bartonNoSpam@NoSpamesdim1.esdim.noaa.gov Jerry, I keep thinking of what you said at the Dr. Clean Slack Pack about your R1100 surging. Told this to Paul Orlando (reads the R and GS lists) at our Prez meeting in Colorado last week. Paul has a R1100GS and said that the surging is due to the electronic control box/computer. Seems that either on the GS or R list this was discussed and the European bikes do not have this problem. They do not have catalytic converters and thus have different computer instructions. Maybe you should contact Paul for more info. I did not get his email, but Jim Bessette has it. see you gerry barton 79R65 in DC From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 30 22:50:44 1997 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:01:03 -0600 (MDT) From: D&J To: Cy Young Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Check those plug wires *first* Reply-To: D&J Cy Young: I hope you don't mind that I am going public with this, but I figure it might help some other idiot (note: lower case spelling). > Dick - I can commiserate re the bike - except that mine was towards the > end of a 1500 mile trip.... > > The stumbling ended up being the plug wires even though you could see a > spark coming from the plug - swapping out wires was the only way to really > check it/fix it. Did you do that, or just see if a spark was present? > > Cy, Cy, Of course I didn't do that. You were *exactly* right. I went to my local dealer, prepared to fork over $40 just to see if it was plug wires, but they didn't have my kind in stock (1986 R65). So, I went back to cleaning carbs and squirting WD-40 into various likely openings. Nothing. Meantime I attended a local Montana BMW Riders gathering that included Paddy Maddock, and was in fact in his honor. He is the (one and only) BMW dealer in Ireland. I told him my sad tale and he thought about it for a moment and then said in his quaint Irish way, "plug wires." I still wasn't really convinced. If his name had been Dieter or Sigfried maybe I would have listened. I mean, after all, I could *see* that the plugs were sparking OK when I pulled them. And the bike ran fine over 3,000 rpm. How could it be the plug wires? It *had* to be the idle jet. I cleaned the carbs again, for the tenth time. Man, my carbs are so clean you could do open heart surgery with them. Just when I was ready to kick my bike over and burn it, I called the local dealer here in Missoula, Smith and Jones, and talked to the head mechanic Bill Vetter. Well, you would think he didn't have a thing in the world to do and that nothing made him happier than trying to solve my problem over the phone. He spent about 20 minutes on the phone with me, this was in the middle of a work day mind you, going over various scenarios. Finally he told me that the plug wires should measure out at 5k ohms, a bit of information that isn't in Clymer or Haynes, and that if I would bring my plug wires in he would check them for me. So I rushed right down to Radio Hut and bought their cheapest multimeter ($24.95), which is a nice little gadget, and slapped it onto my plug wires. My multimeter, which I had purchased at a garage sale, had packed it in and I had tossed it recently. Guess what? Infinite resistance on one wire. A bad plug wire. After that I took my plug wires down to Smith and Jones and Bill confirmed my finding. And, he also pointed out to me that it says "5k ohms" right on the spark plug cap. Then, since they didn't have any in stock at the moment, he loaned me a wire that was OK, that had been pulled from some repair job, just so I could ride over the weekend. Is this a BMW dealer or what? Keep these guys in mind when you come to the next MOA national rally here in Missoula. So, how come neither Clymer nor Haynes tells us that the plug wires have a 5k resistor buried in them? I know because I hacksawed my bad wire apart and took a look. If I had known this at the start I wouldn't have lost so much sleep. So, am I an Idiot (note: upper case spelling) or what? Dick Taylor - Classy Guy hetchinsNoSpam@NoSpammontana.com Live and lean. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 10 01:27:02 1997 From: BilZ42NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:14:43 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: K11 fuel pump, more info Reply-To: BilZ42NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com OK, all you K11 riders ( and maybe K75 & 100 also ), here's the deal! You're 100 miles from any dealer in a small country town and the fuel pump does the instant death trick, what to do? Well, if you're rich and planned ahead, you reach in the bag and get out your spare pump and in minutes you're back on the road. If you're poor and didn't plan ahead because the scoot is low milage and reliable as an anvil, find a NAPA parts store and ask for a P74095 fuel pump, get a few O-rings just big enough to fit over the new pump to fatten it up, and a large hose clamp to fit over the bottom of the stock BMW rubber mount sleeve, cost about $80, and you can be back on the road in minutes. And if you get lucky like me and your seat won't unlatch for acess to the tool roll, you can do the whole job with your leatherman tool. I'll try to find out what this pump fits and post it later so you can ask for a pump for a ?whatever and that way you can buy it anywhere in case there's not a NAPA store close at hand. Happy motoring! Bill Z 9 July 97 Went back to NAPA store today, pump fits 86 - 88 Ford 4 cyl with fuel injection is what I was told. I'm thinking probably a 4 cyl Mustang but the pump is shorter and skinnier than the BMW pump. The O-rings mentioned above will fatten it just right for a snug fit in the stock BMW rubber mount and a hose clamp on the outside of the BMW rubber mount will grip the pump and hold it in place. The BMW pump stands above the rubber mount, position the Ford pump flush with the top of the mount and the pickup will be in same position as BMW pump, if you don't do this you will run out od fuel sooner because the pump won't be able to pick up as much of the fuel. The sock for the Ford pump will not fit into the well in the K gas tank so I am presently running without it. I may pull it back out and try to fit the sock from the BMW pump to the Ford pump. Hope none of you have to go through this but if you do, remember all this crap. Bill Z From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 11 22:46:45 1997 X-Sent-Via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ From: "Rob Lentini" To: "joe senner" , "ibmwr" , "oilhead" Subject: BMW: re: my experience with champion 430 (RC 9 YC 4) plugs Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:31:32 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" Joe reports: ==== Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:25:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Senner Subject: BMW: my experience with champion 430 (RC 9 YC 4) plugs Hi all, I decided to give these things a try to see if I could detect any difference, bad or good. I'm not experiencing any surging at the moment but my bike does exhibit a particular "problem" that has been very consistent and a little annoying. I figured this was a good test point. This morning I went through my usual routine, doing exactly as I had done every other morning. I pushed the bike off the center stand, hit the starter button and let go of the throttle completely and let it idle without any help from me or the fast idle lever. The idle stayed constant and the bike did not die. In this case it would seem that the different style plugs did help. Again I cannot speak to the surging cure as I'm not experiencing any at this time. In thinking about what the reasons behind this might be, I theorize that the stock plug with it's dual ground node setup is an attempt at exposing more of the spark's surface area to the mixture in the cylinder. Apparently the reality isn't what the designers expected though. The traditional plug style is apparently doing a better job at firing the mixture under odd conditions. I've seen weak plugs/wires manifest all kinds of odd behavior, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think it might affect surging to some extent. I can't say with any certainty at all how much though. Comments? ==== OK, I use standard plugs too and have for 35K in this oilhead (Autolite 3923). They work VERY well and look almost unworn at the 12K change interval and have a nice light brown color (good!). I too noticed better starting/low speed characteristics, though only slight. My oilhead is a '94 RS so it has the faster start lever idle speed as opposed to '97s like Joes with the central throttle distribution box. Theory: the horizontal gap of the standard plug may be more efficient in igniting the turbulent mixture in the combustion chamber at idle and low speeds. The drawback may be reduced ignition efficiency at high RPM, though I can't tell (and there's NO pinging). Recall that the old 3 electrode and newer 2 electrode Bosch OEM plugs "gap" sideways with the center electrode as opposed to the horizontal of the standard. For those of you using 430 Champs or Autolite 3923, stay with the BMW spec of .031" gap. regards, Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ (520) 790-8865 (H), (520) 295-6411 (B) '94 R 1100 RS Three Flags 97 #205 MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA BMWMOA Board Member "Elect" "LET'S RIDE MORE AND POLITIC LESS" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 12 12:10:04 1997 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:34:42 -0500 To: dmdinauerNoSpam@NoSpamsmtpgate.bcsew.edu From: Jonathan Hutchins Subject: Re: BMW: Unleaded fuel in the 70's Cc: Reply-To: Jonathan Hutchins At 02:04 PM 7/10/97 -0600, dmdinauerNoSpam@NoSpamsmtpgate.bcsew.edu wrote: > Does anyone know the year when BMW made bikes that specifically use > unleaded fuel? I'm a new owner of a '76 R75/6 and the guy I bought it > from used unleaded fuel but was the bike made for unleaded fuel? If > not, what are the consequences? The consequences are highly debatable, but if any might consist of accelerated valve wear. In any case, someday you may have to do valve work when the valves wear regardless of fuel used. At that time, the replacement seats and guides you use will be "made for unleaded fuel" and will eliminate further worries. Jonathan Hutchins hutchinsNoSpam@NoSpamsky.net The Wolf's Den BBS (FIDO 1:280/76) FAA A&P, PPSEL '85 K100 (LT) From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 13 23:22:15 1997 X-Sent-Via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ From: "Rob Lentini" To: , "oilhead" , "ibmwr" Subject: BMW: re: Champion plugs vs. surging. Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:04:37 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" John sez: ==== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:05:54 -0700 From: "John F. Caramagno" Subject: Champion plugs vs. surging. To: r1100list While surging around today at low speed I a thought. I tried the Lentini method of TPS sync and ended up with a high idle. Then I used the Lentini addendum for high idle and ended up with more surging. I finally reduced the surging by adjusting the TPS up to 395mv (I'll hear it from Rob for that). It still surges a little. Now we have talk about Champion spark plugs curing the surging problem. I thought, "wait, surging is because of fuel delivery problems, not plugs." So here is my thought, perhaps R11s have two problems, TPS out of sync with the oxygen sensor and spark plugs not firing the mixture. As I was riding the bike felt like is was missing occasionally. It's a lot like surging but the drop off of power is quicker, like a miss. Perhaps that is why different plugs affect the "surging." Perhaps not. I shopped around for Champion plugs, Cycle Gear, Kragen Auto, Grand Auto, but no luck. Does anyone know where I can find these plugs here in the San Francisco Bay Area? -- John Caramagno cragsNoSpam@NoSpama.crl.com Carol Feldman ==== I"ve been using Autolite 3923 plugs. They're used in '94 BMW cars and are the same spec as the 430 Champions. Checker Auto Parts carries them for peanuts minus rebate. Good or better than Champions. BTW, changing the stop screw TPS value after "zero=zero" cannot affect surging or fuel delivery except JUST at idle. Recheck your basic mechanical synch at idle with bypasses closed. :) Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ (520) 790-8865 (H), (520) 295-6411 (B) '94 R 1100 RS Three Flags 97 #205 MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA BMWMOA Board Member "Elect" "LET'S RIDE MORE AND POLITIC LESS" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 13 23:54:31 1997 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:42:14 -0700 (PDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Mick Collins Subject: BMW: Re: R11RT surging Cc: MTCollNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Reply-To: Mick Collins At 07:32 PM 7/13/97 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:31:50 -0400 (EDT) >From: MTCollNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com >Subject: BMW: Re: R11RT surging > >I have a '97 R11RT with roughly 5300 miles on it. Way back when the mileage >was in the hundreds, I started having surging & backfiring problems. At the >600-mile checkup, the wrench at Blue Moon adjusted the throttle bodies and >the TPS. Shortly thereafter, it started doing it again. BIG SNIP A couple of things come to mind, but firstly I'd check fuel pressure. There are a batch of filters that do leak under pressure, e.g., OK at low RPM where fuel demand is low, but at higher RPM where demand is high, well, you get the picture. You can check the fuel pressure out of the tank (with an appropriate gauge), Accessible on the right side with the fairing off. Pressure should stay up after you turn the ignition back off. This is on the center stand, etc. be sure your side stand is up obviously, or the pump won't run. If the pressure doesn't reach 30+ PSI or drops immediately to zero or a suspiciously low figure (after key off), you have a "leaky" filter. You don't need to hit the starter, just turn the ignition on and let the system pressurize. All disclaimers apply, etc., if you set yourself on fire =8-/ Good luck. mick in san diego From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 17 18:32:12 1997 From: "John Outlan" To: "R1100 Mail List" Cc: "BMW Mail List" , "BMW-GS Mail List" Subject: BMW: And the Winner is: Autolite 3923!!! X-Posted.. Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:45:07 -0400 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "John Outlan" Went out to my garage today to swap my OEM Bosch plugs for the Autolite 3923's (1.08 ea at discount auto) to see if they improved starting and low rpm running/idling. Went for the toolkit and retrieved that cheap spark plug socket that came with the bike. Guess what, the socket in my tool kit would not fit down the cavity where the spark plug is. Called BMW of Daytona (no slam to BMW of Orlando, Daytona is just closer and easier to get to :-), and told them something was wrong...shouldn't work out this way with a tool from the bike's own tool kit. My standard spark plug socket from my own tools would not fit either. They said, come on over and use our nice, but expensive $32.00 BMW special tool for that. Went to BMW of Daytona and pulled my bike back in the shop. They gave me an air compressor hose, some anti-seize lube and that beautiful but too expensive BMW spark plug socket. No charge for anything which was pretty decent of them. I proceded to change the plugs, about a two minute job. A wrench walks over to me and says, "going with a standard plug? I never use a stock plug in my bikes". Hmmm. Interesting I think. Phil took my tool kit spark plug socket up to the showroom and pulled another from an R11GS on the showroom. I HAVE THE WRONG TOOL! The tool that came with my bike has too large a diameter! BMW of Orlando: are you listening? Warranty claim here. :-) Anyway, it was time to leave, so we turned my bike around in the shop, a wrench opened the roll up door and I fired up the GS. It started quicker and when I revved it up I immediately noticed that is was much smoother. It idled smoother also. It was hard to believe that a two dollar investment in parts could make this kind of difference! I mentioned this to the mechanic. He nodded. I took off down the road and was impressed at how much smoother the bike ran. I had heard Richard B. mention that the equivalent Champion 430's had made his bike ping under load/high heat and high rpms, so I did everything in my power to try and make the bike ping and couldn't do it. Not by rolling it on in 5th at low rpms, not at 90 or 100mph after a long slab ride in the midday Florida heat. Not any way. I had very little if any surging to begin with. I'm very pleased with these plugs. I don't believe I'll ever put those crappy and expensive Bosch plugs back in. I don't know technically why they are crappy, but I call crap anything that makes my bike run like shit. I wish I would have known about this 27K miles ago! FWIW, John O. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ John H. Outlan - Lake Mary, FL (Orlando) joutlanNoSpam@NoSpamiag.net 1995 BMW R1100GS "El Buey" (Black) Windows NT4.0! Prez, Village Idiot, FOG #3, RA, MOA, AMA... Associate Member - Central Florida Beeline Beemers ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 18 12:21:13 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:59:19 -0400 From: Daniel Quick Subject: BMW: Spark Plugs For K Bikes To: IBMWR mailing list Cc: Robert Munday Reply-To: Daniel Quick Robert wrote: >I have been bypassing this thread since it looked as if the spark plug >recommendations were for R bikes. What is the general recommendation fo= r >a K100LT? I will be up for a level two service soon. Robert, I use NGK D7EA plugs, in the UK, and from a motor factors, they are abou= t 1/3 rd the price of the Bosch OE plugs. I change them every 6000 miles, they come out almost as clean as they went in, and appear not to erode at= all. Safe Riding Daniel Quick = dlquickNoSpam@NoSpamcompuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dlquick Oxford UK Flautist Extraordinaire :-) From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 18 17:52:26 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:10:03 -0700 From: Monty Brown To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Re: Spark Plugs and then some... Reply-To: Monty Brown As a present employee of AlliedSiganl I can shed some light on the spark plug / Autolite issue. A spark plug does three basic things. Delivers a spark to the combustion chamber, dissipates heat and seals a hole in the cylinder head against compression leak. NO MATTER WHAT BRAND YOU CHOOSE TO USE these basic criteria must be met! The fact that some have use cross reference charts disturbs me. No two plugs have the same heat range rating! As a rule most manufactures will cross their product to a heat range cooler. Better to error on the cold side vs. hot. With this in mind it's coincidental that I just made a change from the Bosch OE #W7DC to an Autolite #63 in a 92 R100GS. The bike was experiencing pinging when hot and under load. It's now gone and the plug color shows less heat on the insulator. The result is not necessarily a better plug but improved heat dissipation in this case. Don't forget the EPA is demanding cleaner burning engines and a hotter plug will give an immediate result. Here's my sales pitch. Autolite is manufacture unique. If you'll notice the shell isn't pretty nickel plated like most other brands. This is because the shell in heated around the insulator. This in turn melts a copper / glass mixture in the center where the terminal stud is. This is done to insure a gas tight seal against compression leakage and form a solid bond along the electrical path to the center wire. Most other manufactures use a talc seal and several parts to accomplish the same thing. Example - Champion uses a terminal stud approx. 1" in length connected to a spring then a resistor block and finally the center wire. The whole thing is sealed with a talcum powder substance and crimped closed. That's it! Talc power is also inserted between the shell and insulator to seal against compression leak. If your wrench slips or the plug is dropped at any time there is a higher chance of breaking the electrical path to the combustion chamber. Check around the middle of the plug you're presently using and see if there is a dark ring just above where the shell and insulator meet. Wipe the dirt away to and look for blow-by around this area. Some of you will see what I'm referring to. Other manufactures make good products also. Some use different techniques but if the three main goals are achieved you should be well served by whatever brand you decide to install. Last note: please use the manufacture catalog to get the proper application for your bike! If you don't chances are good you'll end up with a wrong heat range plug. Cross references are not exact. The AlliedSignal Motorcycle Catalog is number AH-7080E and is available through motorcycle distributors. Some, not all numbers are available at automotive retailers. As a side note check out the Fram filters. They perform much better than most OE filters and can also save you some $. I'll be glad to discuss that issue if anyone is interested? Monty Danville, CA RS1100, GS100, T509, XLH1200 & XT600 --  From lentiniNoSpam@NoSpamazstarnet.com Fri Jul 18 19:35:10 1997 X-Sent-via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ From: "Rob Lentini" To: Subject: Re: proper sparkplug for K-bikes? Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:36:01 -0600 X-Priority: 3 > I've read plenty about the Autolite 3923s that you recommend for > oilheads; are these also the right stuff for K's? If not, what > is? No! Autolite 4153, 4163 or Champion RA6HC. :) Rob From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 19 12:10:14 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:04:06 -0700 From: Mark Gensman Organization: Business Resource Group, Inc. To: "Filak, John F" Cc: BMWMCNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Spark Plugs Reply-To: Mark Gensman Filak, John F wrote: > > OK, I've seen enough to pique my interest. The related accounts of poor > performing Bosch plugs in R11s makes me wonder about the improvement > possibilities in R100s and K100s. How about it? Does > Autolite/Motorcraft/Champion make a suitable replacement plug for the > older Beemers? Is there any advantage to going with them? > John Filak > Lafayette New Jersey USA I put Bosch platinum plugs in my 100/7 three times in nearly 100,000 miles. Never a failure. I tried splitfire and burned them up in about 2000 miles. Champions suck. Autolite has been the plug of choice for all cars, trucks and lawnmowers for years. -- Mark Gensman MgensmanNoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com 95 K1100LT "You're never too old to rock and roll" K-Whiner #51 "The Green Hornet" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 19 18:47:52 1997 X-Sent-Via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ From: "Rob Lentini" To: , , Subject: BMW: Re: R11 Spark plugs yet again Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 15:35:09 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Rob Lentini" ---------- > From: davidebsmithNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com > To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com; bmw-r1100NoSpam@NoSpamcinnamon.com; lentiniNoSpam@NoSpamazstarnet.com > Subject: R11 Spark plugs yet again > Date: Friday, July 18, 1997 8:12 PM > > I have an experimental nature, so here are some questions that arose in > my exploration of the R11 spark plug question. . . > > (1) I noticed, when I removed the OEM Bosch plugs, that the gap was MUCH > less than the specified 0.8 mm -- more like 0.5 mm. Could that be related > to the surging problem? THe plugs were sooty after 2400 miles, not brown. This could be! The plugs are pre-gapped and are difficult to gap and measure. Are you sure they were less? Since the side electrodes are radiused to match the center electrode, you will need to measure with a wire gage positioned longitudinal to the center electrode to get an accurate reading. > SO, I have my choice of two replacement plugs: the Autolite 3923, or the > Champion ??? 430, or RC9YC4 > > (2) I noticed, as someone else previously posted, that the Autolite plug > is slightly longer than the Bosch plug, by about the thickness of the > electrode. Is this a problem? Rob hasn't had any difficulty in his '94 > RS, but is my '97 RT going to self-destruct two weeks from now in the > middle of Montana? Absolutely NOT! > > On the other hand, I have some Champion plugs that Murray's Auto Parts > said was the same as the 430 or the 403. These are Champion 344 aka > RC9YC. This plug is slightly longer than the Bosch but slightly shorter > than the Autolite. 3923 and RC9YC4 are subs to each other. > > (3) What the h*** plugs are the Champion 344 as compared to the 430 or > the 403??? The 403 is entirely different! Don't use it. the RC9YC which is non large- gapped as opposed to the RC9YC4, pre-gapped wider. In any case, gap all to .031" or .8mm. > > SO, I decided to put in the Autolites. > > (4) The Autolites have a gasket that is much smaller on one side. The > larger side is the same size as the gasket on the Bosch plugs. Small side > facing the cylinder or away? That is, small side in contact with the head > or the large side. I don't think this matters, but I put the small side toward the plug. > > SO, after picking large side against the head, in they go. Fire it up. > > A noticeable improvement. The bike immediately settles into a smoother > idle; no blipping the throttle to keep it running at first. > > Unfortunately, it is raining and my wife is hungry, so the experiments > must continue tomorrow. > > > David E.B. Smith > 1997 R1100RT Sine(us) Blue "No name" > 1992 Subaru Legacy Wagon "But its also a Boxer" Me thinks you will like them! :))) Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ (520) 790-8865 (H), (520) 295-6411 (B) '94 R 1100 RS Three Flags 97 #205 MSF, BMWMOA, BMWRA, IOC, AMA BMWMOA Board Member "Elect" "LET'S RIDE MORE AND POLITIC LESS" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 20 22:41:11 1997 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:32:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "Thomas E. Haynes" To: beemerriderNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com Cc: mkingNoSpam@NoSpamsirius.com, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: K75 power loss (help) Reply-To: "Thomas E. Haynes" On Sun, 20 Jul 1997 beemerriderNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com wrote: > > First, replace the fuel filter, then proceed from there. If it does it again, get the water out of your tank and put in (yet) another fuel filter. I had problems with a strange miss and every now and then the engine would die instead of coming down to an idle after running at a brisk clip. someone on the list suggested the filter and water. They were right on the money. If you were to change your filter about a dozen times, it would probably do the same thing. 8) Regards... Tom Haynes Murfreesboro, TN From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jul 21 07:01:25 1997 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 06:39 EDT To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Tom Barnhart Subject: BMW: RE: - Faring Reply-To: Tom Barnhart Per request, I'm posting this to the list for my son. We (obviously) appreciate all the help. Tom Barnhart KB8OYX BOOF #109 '88 K100LT Traverse City, MI >From: "Barnhart, Terence M (CRD)" >To: 'Tom Barnhart' >Subject: RE: - Faring >Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:24:20 -0400 >X-Priority: 3 > >Yo, probably need a code book for you guys, WTF is BTDT? > >Hey, pass this on to the list, they'll like it I think: > >Well, today is my birthday, and as such, the Karma was flowing in my >favor. As you are all aware from my father's postings, I have been >having some drivability problems with my R80/7 that have been driving me >nuts. Backfiring a little bit, then more, then from here to Tuesday of >next year. OK, so I do the first thing that comes into my mind when I >think backfiring (hey, I'm a car guy), I rebuild the carbs. Dang things >eat diaphrams, o-rings and everything when they are 20 years old. All >the rubber was crap. > >Lo, the bike runs MUCH better. Smoother throttle response, more punch, >and not a dang thing changes in the backfiring. OK, step 2, put in new >boots between carb and head. Heyyyy, smoother throttle response, humms >well, backfires like a rocket. > >Time to do in the timing...Yeeee (as they say) Haaaahhh!!!!!! No >backfiring when warm! Great. Ooooops. All the way to work in the >morning the thing pops like Oriville's best corn. > >Much farting around ensues, including cranking the crank with an Allen >wrench to set the static timing. Not much seems to be happening, but >when I go to bold the front cover back on, the wrench is nowhere to be >found. Nowhere in the garage, but then, the garage is HUGE (underground >apartment affair), so I just figure I'll have to score another one. NOW >the bike really acts up. Bllaaaatttttblaatttblatblublblub, etc. >Serious cursing at a gas station occurs when the dang thing won't >restart on the test ride this time. Seems when you start the motor with >the hex wrench IN the alternator, it launches itelsf up, clangs back >down and miraculously lodges above the alternator, so that when you put >the front cover back on, it stays snuggled happily in there shorting out >your electrical system. Hmm, removed, it now runs great warm, but lousy >cold (see above). > >Here is where the birtday Karma comes in. Woke up, showered, got >dressed, adjusted the front brake, took off the front cover, messed with >the gap, and noticed that the wire from the advance mechanism was >crushed. No gentlemen, it was not feeding through the gap made for it >in the distributor area, it was just getting crushed between the cover >and the block. This makes for poor drivability. Hmmm. Bike runs great >now, cold or hot. > >Thanks for all your help in getting things going. It runs much better >than the day I bought it. > >Terry >Member of the airhead riders of the Mopar Mailing List > From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jul 21 09:41:25 1997 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:20:22 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamfacteur.std.com From: Don Eilenberger Subject: BMW: RE: K75 power loss (help) Cc: Mike King Reply-To: Don Eilenberger Mike stumbles home: >Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:15:48 -0700 (PDT) >From: Mike King >Subject: BMW: K75 power loss (help) > >Dear Prezes, >On the home leg of a 4-hour ride yesterday in the SF Bay Area (quite a fine >shindig was held at California BMW/Triumph by the way): > >At freeway speed the bike had a sudden loss of power. Managed to stay at >5,000 rpm but it was a struggle and the application of more throttle seemed >to have a negative effect. Going up a hill on the freeway I barely made it >to the top though the bike seemed to recover when i kept the rpms down. >Seemed to miss when put under load. I did make it to my garage >fortunately--don't like tow jobs. The bike does start and idles fine, but >doesn't want to accelerate. If I'd been two-up when this started don't >think it would have got home. Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot this? > >Thanks, >Mike King San Francisco K75 >R80RT >R75/5 Mike.. Step 1 - replace fuel filter - symptoms are classic fuel starvation.. If not step 1 - deeper analysis: Step 2 - remove coil cover if you have one - look for any signs of problems with the coils (burned areas, cracks, etc).. check resistance of plug wires. Replace plugs.. Butt - betcha' it's numba 1.. Best, ================================== Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com ================================== From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jul 21 19:20:46 1997 From: Clarence Dold Subject: Re: BMW: K75 power loss (help) To: thaynesNoSpam@NoSpamfrank.mtsu.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com (BMW Mailing List) Reply-To: Clarence Dold > If it does it again, get the water out of your tank and put in (yet) > another fuel filter. I had problems with a strange miss and every now and I second this one. If the drain hose from just outside the filler area, under the cap, is clogged, water _will_ get in the gas tank. It's easy to see if you take the filler assembly out of the tank. The tank is so clean and shiny, the water collects at the bottom, and looks like the tank is shorter inside than it should be. I siphoned my tank out into a clear receptacle, and retrieved about a pint of water. Different flow demands, and I suspect road sloshing, allowed the bike to run fine sometimes, and completely cut out other times. -- --- Clarence A Dold - doldNoSpam@NoSpamnetwork.rahul.net - Pope Valley & Napa CA. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jul 21 23:39:47 1997 From: "John Outlan" To: , Subject: BMW: Re: R11 plugs Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:24:19 -0400 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "John Outlan" ---------- From: MTCollNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: R11 plugs Date: Monday, July 21, 1997 10:47 PM Just put Autolite 3923's in my '97 R11RT, and immediately noticed the difference. It wasn't a night-and-day difference, but it was still apparent. Less surging, smoother acceleration and deceleration; best 2 bucks I've spent on that bike so far. I gapped them at .8 mm, per a post I'd seen a few days ago. Today, however, I saw one that said they should be gapped at .31. That seems awfully close to me. I mean, they came out of the box gapped at close to 1mm. Any thoughts from you folks? Mike, .8mm or .031" which are the same. John O. Michael Colloton Atlanta From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 22 01:43:47 1997 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:57:07 -0700 From: Monty Brown To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Re: Split Fire plugs... Reply-To: Monty Brown Monty Brown wrote: > > Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:06:23 -0500 (CDT) > From: Rand Z Rasmussen > Subject: Re: BMW: Spark Plugs > > One of the things of which one must be careful in performance claims is > whether or not they are docuented. Splitfire's claims of "5-.......: > percent horsepower gains sound interesting, but the only way to prove > that is to use something like a dyno, testing first one set of plugs, > then the other, making no other changes in the bike. I have rarely seen > this kind of objective information included. > -- > >  Rand, You couldn't be more correct. "Spit Fire" plugs are made by AlliedSignal at the Autolite factory. The unique spit side electrode offers absolutly no advantage! It's marketing and more marketing by Split Fire. The reason many parts houses carry them is to create a high price point for a traditionally low margin product line. You'll notice none of the statements made by Split Fire offer any tangible or quantitative point of measurement for comparison to other products. My company does however enjoy the business from Split Fire. Monty Danville, CA --  From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 22 19:46:22 1997 From: MilesMilNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:44:29 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Fouled Plugs Reply-To: MilesMilNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com 2:37 p.m. Tuesday With all the talk about plugs in recent posts, I thought the following piece lifted from the Alfa Romeo Digest (ARD) might be of some use. I hope it's not to difficult to read the way it's organized. Ironically, I changed over from Champion plugs to Bosch plugs awhile back in the Alfa when the car was missing. Turned out to be the fuel filter. Just ran down to the auto parts store and got some Autolite's for the bike. The guy that wrote the attached is suggesting Champions for the Alfas'. Getting a-bit confused here. Let's see 6 Bosch plugs in the car, two in the R-11 for a total of, what?, eight Bosch plugs; replace the six in the car.....As David Norton used to say, I need a beer. << In an old haynes manual i have there is a colour (color!!) advert for champion and it has pictures of various fouled plugs etc Normal: Grey brown deposits, lightly coated coar nose. Plugs idealy suited to engine, and engine in good condition Overheating: Electrodes have glazed apperance, core nose very white -very few deposits. Fault plug overheating. Check plug value, ignitio= n = timing, fuel octane rating (too low) and fuel mixture too weak Heavy Deposits A build up of crusty deposits light grey sandy colour. Fault oft= en caused by worn valve quides, exessive use of upper cylinder = lubricant, or idling for long periods. Oil Fouling Wet oily deposits. Fault worn bores/piston rings or valve guides somes times occurs during running in periods Split core nose (initially a crack), Fault detonation or wrong gap setting technique. Check ignition timing, cooling system, fuel mixture (too weak) Carbon fouling dry black sooty deposits. Fault; over rich mixture. Check carb m= ix settings float level, choke operation, air filter Lead fouling Yellow green shing plug insulation firing tip. fault, incorrect carburation, excessive idling followed by sharp acceleration, also check initi= on timing. Electrode damage electrodes burned away, core nose burned glazed apperance. Fault; pre ignition, check for correct heat range and as for overheating. John take your pick!. After coping their advert (allegedly) i must recommend their product (go and buy champion) >> Miles Miller R11RT - Max Bainbridge Is., Wa. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 22 20:28:09 1997 From: "Sobczyk, Joe" To: "'bmw list'" Subject: RE: BMW: Re: Spittin, Sputturin, Airhead Date: Tue, 22 Jul 97 20:12:00 PDT Reply-To: "Sobczyk, Joe" Motel Bob Asks: > >I need your help!! My 1988 R100RST is acting up. The bike cuts out, like >you hit the kill switch and then picks right back up. It will then, spit and >sputter and act like the spark is intermittent. > >The problem is sometimes it does it, sometimes you can ride for an hour or >two and it runs fine. The bike has the original plug wires on it and they >are showing some signs of wear. I recently swapped the bars for a set of RT >bars, I checked all plug connections as this problem arose prior to the >changing of the bars. What I could see of the wiring harness, did not see >any burnt places or fraying. Bob, if you've got a multi-tester check the plug wires (5K ohms) and the coil primary and secondary leads. I don't remember the values that are required there; I'd have to look it up in the Clymer manual at home. While your there, clean and reassemble with the dielectric grease. But if those are the original wires, I'd say you've gotten more than your money's worth out of them. I'm on my third or fourth set on my 81 R. Joe Sobczyk Washington DC 81 R65 85 K100RS SobczykNoSpam@NoSpamWashpost.com The opinions are my own, etc. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 24 16:04:37 1997 From: "Patrick J. Skelley II" Organization: University of Richmond To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 15:37:19 EDT Subject: BMW: Re: R65 TECH Reply-To: "Patrick J. Skelley II" I used to think that _I_ overreacted to various mechanical maladies, but I believe I have been surpassed. Before doing something as drastic as a top end rebuild to cure a sooty spark plug/tailpipe, try a valve adjustment and carburetor tune-up first (most likely the latter is the culprit). I would bet you your problems will cease by doing this simple procedure, without enriching an undeserving mechanic somewhere. Patrick Skelley Powhatan, Virginia 1982 R65 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 24 18:32:55 1997 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 16:50:24 CDT From: rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro.sps.mot.com (Roger Albert) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Oil in flywheel housing on R bike Reply-To: rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro.sps.mot.com (Roger Albert) Hi all, Ron Bauman wrote: > According to Clymer's, a special mandrel is required to install the > rear main oil seal to insure correct alignment. Have any prezzes > done this job and is it required or just "nice to have?" or is this a > job better left to the shop? TIA. > > Ron Finally, after all my late ignorance and questions on my ailing /2, something I can answer for once. I was tired of only asking. Anyhoo: The mandrel/drift stuff from BMW just sets the proper depth from what I understand. Thats the only possibly tricky part of the job. I also understand (or at least vaguely remember being discussed) that if either the seal or (indirectly) the crank is tapped in too far, some bushing or another can be dislodged on the inside. This would require an expensive teardown to correct. The mandrel should prevent this, as its outer circumference is large enough that it won't allow the rest of the tool (and by extension, the seal, and crank) to go in too far. I was going to buy the mandrel so I could do it myself, but is was very expensive for the pair of parts needed. Seems like close to 200. To keep the replacement of the seals cheap. I pulled the driveshaft, transmission and flywheel/clutch assemblies and loaded the bike/motor and (separately) transmission into my trusty old truck and hauled them into Lonestar (our friendly local dealer) They pulled both the rear seal and trans input seal for me and put new ones in on the spot (I'd called ahead) Total cost was about (if I recall) $40 for the seals and ca $20 for labor. Add in new flywheel and driveshaft bolts and you're still less than $100 for everything. Also, sniff around, you can probably tell the difference between even burnt motoroil and icky/stinky/sulfery gear oil. At any rate, I just replaced both seals while I had it open. The tranny seal is cheap and they can pop it in in no time. Oh yeah, if you're really a do it yourselfer, I've in the meantime learned that Ed Korn (who makes numerous mostly /2 to /7 beemer tools) does sell a rear seal tool. A friend of mine has just ordered it, but being as he wrecked his R90S at the national (recovering nicely from a broken collar bone, but not riding/repairing yet) he hasn't yet used it. Anyway, the tool was less than $40 incl postage. About a break-even vs. labor costs and you'll always have the tool. I'd have done that if I'd known about Ed's tool sales at the time. regards roger =================================================== Roger Albert (go Illini!) Motorola. Austin, Texas rogerNoSpam@NoSpammostro.sps.mot.com Wireless/DSP Div. 56xxx work tel (512) 891-6426 work fax: (512) 891-2947 Red Ducati M900 White 65 BMW R60/2 Blue 76 R90/6 '74 R90/6 Sidecar project now on hold - but always searching for a great deal on a nice chair for it! 1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado restoration now underway! --------------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed are always mine --, never Moto's =================================================== best of luck Ron. regards roger From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 24 19:27:36 1997 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:13:54 -0700 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Mike Furchert Subject: BMW: Rough running R65 Cc: SnidermanNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Reply-To: Mike Furchert Jeff, Check the resistance of the plug lead, ie remove from coil and spark plug, with a multi-meter you should have .05 resistance, if any lower ditch the lead. This usually is over looked and believe me if not caught in time will cause misery and money. (Is that a country and western song) This may not be the problem but its a start Cheers from Australia Mick 86 K100RS From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 24 20:43:16 1997 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:26:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Geoff Adams To: Hugh Stilley Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: BMW - plugs for airheads Reply-To: Geoff Adams On Wed, 23 Jul 1997, Hugh Stilley wrote: > > I've missed lots of the plug discussion. Without starting a huge > discussion, is there a preferred plug for the R90/6 beyond those listed in > the owner's book, now some 23 years old? I rode airheads from 1973 until last fall. A couple of years ago I decided to try the Bosch platinum plugs offered by Capitol Cycle. I never had a bike start so easily and run so well. I finally changed them after 12,000 miles looking for a stumble that turned out to be a plug cap. They still looked nearly new. If I get another airhead, it would get the Bosch Platinum's for sure. Mine was a '76 R75/6. Geoff Adams '85KRS MOA 22753 TBC Arlington, TX IBMWR BMWDFW NTCOF tbcNoSpam@NoSpamdfw.net LSBMWR "We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities!" -Pogo. ____________________________________________________________________________ From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 26 10:27:01 1997 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:02:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Geoff Adams To: greg knoettner Cc: BMW world Subject: Re: BMW: engine oil pan sealant Reply-To: Geoff Adams On Fri, 25 Jul 1997, greg knoettner wrote: > > The gasket around the base of my oil pan leaks a few drops/tiny puddle > while the oil is near operating temp. The leak stops after it cools. > Anyone got the low-down on that additive that supposedly conditions the > gasket and stops leaks? I'm pretty leery of putting any gunky stuff into > my crank case. - Greg '84 R65LS Changing the oil pan gasket on an airhead is about as simple as leak fixes can get. Use a little silicone gasket sealant when you put on the new gasket. Replace the drain plug seal also. Forget the additives. Geoff Adams '85KRS MOA 22753 TBC Arlington, TX IBMWR BMWDFW NTCOF tbcNoSpam@NoSpamdfw.net LSBMWR "We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities!" -Pogo. ____________________________________________________________________________ From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 27 02:07:04 1997 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:53:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Geoff Adams To: Trevor Phillips Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: engine oil pan sealant Reply-To: Geoff Adams On Sun, 27 Jul 1997, Trevor Phillips wrote: > Greg wrote: > > > The gasket around the base of my oil pan leaks a few drops/tiny puddle > > > while the oil is near operating temp. The leak stops after it cools. > > > Anyone got the low-down on that additive that supposedly conditions the > > > gasket and stops leaks? I'm pretty leery of putting any gunky stuff into > > > my crank case. - Greg '84 R65LS and I wrote : > > Changing the oil pan gasket on an airhead is about as simple as leak fixes > > can get. Use a little silicone gasket sealant when you put on the new > > gasket. trevor wrote: > Hell,forget the gasket. > I use a bead of Permatex "Ultra Blue" silicone instead. This sealant > will tolerate constant oil immersion (a lot of others won't) I agree, this works well. Let it cure a full 24 hours. No gasket needed. Geoff Adams '85KRS MOA 22753 TBC Arlington, TX IBMWR BMWDFW NTCOF tbcNoSpam@NoSpamdfw.net LSBMWR "We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities!" -Pogo. ____________________________________________________________________________ From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 27 11:39:01 1997 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:29:21 -0700 From: M Peek To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: engine oil pan sealant Reply-To: M Peek Geoff Adams wrote: > > On Sun, 27 Jul 1997, Trevor Phillips wrote: > > > Greg wrote: > > > > The gasket around the base of my oil pan leaks a few drops/tiny puddle > and I wrote : > > > Changing the oil pan gasket on an airhead is about as simple as leak fixes > > > can get. Use a little silicone gasket sealant when you put on the new > > > gasket. > > trevor wrote: > > Hell,forget the gasket. > > I use a bead of Permatex "Ultra Blue" silicone instead. This sealant > > will tolerate constant oil immersion (a lot of others won't) > > I agree, this works well. Let it cure a full 24 hours. No gasket > needed. > Ya'll are crazy. Just put a new factory gasket on there and let it go at that. When you torque the oil pan back down little gobs of that wonderful silicon squeeze into the oil pan. Eventually they travel around inside your engine and get themselves stuck in the oil pickup, the filter, other little tiny passages, etc. The end result is an engine that doesn't flow oil well, if at all. Just for the peace of mind that there aren't little bits of gunk travelling around in there, the factory gasket is worth far more in peace of mind than a $2. tube of gunk. Also, if you skip the gasket and just put silicon you are really messing with the clearance between the pickup and the bottom of the pan. You end up sticking the pickup right into all the other gunk that just accumulates down there naturally. MHO FWIW Matthew Peek TIE #4 '52 R51/3 sidehack, '77 R75/7 'cantankerous', '67 Triumph Tiger Cub I have two brains. One is lost and the other is out looking for it. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 31 04:36:09 1997 From: Thomas Machts To: "'IBMWList'" Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:23:33 +0200 Reply-To: Thomas Machts Brian Curry wrote in his description of the valve clearance job: >BMW puts the thickness markings right in the center of the >shim where the valve stem bears. Guess what is >worn off.... Kawasaki puts them along the outer edge where >they contact virtually nothing. So much for "well thought out" >German engineering... Brian, You can put the shims just the other way with the markings away from the cams. This way the markings stay readable. I have a Ford and guess where the markings are. Thomas Machts Grenoble-France From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Aug 8 15:04:15 1997 Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 14:04:46 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Charles Sturtevant Subject: DANGER (was) Re: BMW: R11GS TUNING???? Reply-To: Charles Sturtevant X-No-Archive: yes Hey gang, If anyone decides to try this procedure, please dress yourself in protective clothing. I have personally evacuated three people, in separate incidences, to the local burn center for doing similar things with hot air-cooled engines. Be particularly careful to protect your airway from injesting flames. One case was fatal. CS At 08:43 AM 8/8/97 -0600, Steve Aikens wrote: >Here's how you check to see if porous heads are *really* your problem. >With the bike at maximum operating temprature (hot enough that the ....snip >Take a can of STP carb cleaner or some other highly combustable spray and >spray it carefully around the intake area of the head on each side and >see if the idling bike increases it's rpm's. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Aug 11 16:55:40 1997 From: "DeVern Gerber" To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:37:02 -0700 Subject: Re: BMW: Valve question Reply-To: "DeVern Gerber" X-No-Archive: yes On 11 Aug 97 at 11:12, "Sachdev,Marc" wrote: > When I picked up my bike on Sat, my mechanic told me that my exhaust > valves were real tight, like 3-4mm with a spec clearance of 8mm. After > the adjustment, the bike runs different (duh) and I think, better. I > was told to watch out for three indications that the valves are not at > 8mm and should be adjusted. > > 1. Bike will "hang" at say 3K rpm when decelerating > 2. Won't start real easy > 3. I forgot > > Any ideas on what #3 was ?? Thanks - Who has my blue battery covers ?? > > 1983 R65 Erratic idle speed, changing by several hundred rpm from engine warm to engine hot. Cheers! DeVern DeVern Gerber gerberdNoSpam@NoSpammtwest.net 1997 Iron Butt #90 '83 R80ST '95 R1100RSL "Das Amsdel" (Fliegen Sie Hoch Und Schnell!) :^) From Brian Curry Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 03:25:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Curry Subject: Re: BMW: K BIKE WATER PUMP SHAFT At 09:24 PM 8/24/97 +0700, Graham K. Rogers wrote: > >On Sun, 24 Aug 1997, Brian Curry wrote: > >> Why? The water side seal is a mechanical seal and does not turn on the >> shaft. If it does something is big time wrong. So the surface is not >> critical. If the oil side is grooved you have another problem. And pitting >> is due to corrosion. You have to answer why that would occur. > >Brian, I would be grateful if you can expand a bit on this. In perverse >fashion, the water pump on my K75 has just begun to leak oil. Before I >take this off (or ven think about it) am I just looking at a simple >seal/gasket for replacement; or is there something more? Get the parts. It scared mine into stopping oil. ;);) Check the Web page FAQ, and look at the Haynes manual. Between the two, you will see what is involved. Now, as to why I said what I said. The water pump, and oil pump share a common shafte. It is: drive end, gear type oil pump, oil pump seal, leakage collection chamber, water pump mechanical seal, water pump. The oil pump, being an oil pump is naturally "oil lubricated" and should last a long time. Likewise the seal should also. And if there is wear it should be the polymer seal and not the metal shaft. The seal does bear on the shaft and it is possible for wear to occur on it, but it should be damn little. If either the oil pump seal or the water pump seal leaks it leaks into an area that it vented to the outside so the oils should not be propeled into the coolant, nor the coolant into the oil. :(:( The water pump uses a mechanical seal just like a car. it consists of two very finely machined very flat circular surfaces. One is fixed/installed in the pump housing. The other surface is mounted on the shaft. There is no relative rotation between the shaft seal surface and the shaft. So there is no reason for grooving here at all. Since mechanical seals, of the same basic design and principal, are used on cars using the same coolant that has been reported to cause failures in Honda Goldwings, with no failures in cars except after a bunch of miles, I don't expect failures in K bikes using automotive coolant. The first thing to look for is to see if the Goldwings use a different design seal. There are bunches of seal designs, and each have their own unique failure modes. The water pump impeller is bolted to the shaft and should move with it, and thus not subject to grooving. To get to all this, you have to take off the cover and then take off a bunch of internal fasteners. Then the oil pump, water pump will come off in your hand. IMO, get new o-rings for the internal passage seals. (Remember that fear factor for inanimate objects. ;);) ) The shaft should not be rough, particularly the water pump end on reinstallation. Smoothing the surface using some type of abrasive paper/cloth should do the trick. This allows the shaft to pass through the oil seal on reassembly without screwing up its surface. It does not have to be perfect. I cringed a bit when looking at this job. But with the parts in my hand felt much better. And just knowing I had them ready to go, got the seal to quit leaking. ;);) This enough? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | "Without data, you're just another opinion." | | -Jim Clarke (Manager, engine controls Ford Motor Co.) | | | | | | Brian Curry, 1990 Blue K75RTs both coasts, Chester Springs, PA | | The 9.25 cents a minute guy, USA SoD #23 | | | | KGN- Improving Lives Around The World | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From D&J Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 08:38:07 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: BMW: R1100 Problem >Paul or Voni Glaves wrote: >> >> A while back there was lots of speculation as to cylinder wear and >> tolerances on the R11 engine. I can now say with absolute certainty that >> the R11 cylinders are awful hard and hold up well. The factory crosshatch >> pattern is clearly visible and unmarred after 156,000 miles. Steve Aikens wrote: >What great news this is. This means, although I suspected this to be >the case because if the length of time it took for both my RS's to >break-in enough for them to actually stop using oil, especially at the >upper end rpm's I always run, I never could find any real world data to >support my theory. Paul & Steve, I think I must have been out of the room or something when manufacturers stopped selling vehicles that had very lightweight "break-in" oil in them that had to be changed at 300 miles. Then another oil change was required at 1,000 miles. During that first 1,000 miles you tried to keep the revs up somewhat and you *never* lugged the engine. My theory about this is that the ten-percent who couldn't be bothered with changing their oil at 300 miles managed to seriously harm their brand-new engines and some of them would then blame the manufacturer. So... no more break-in oil. Well, gotta go jump in the shower, dust off the dog, buy more beer, etc. Visitors, on motorcycles, are arriving. Dick Taylor - Classy Guy hetchinsNoSpam@NoSpammontana.com SoD #27 Live and lean. From "Gerrit Jacobsen" Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 10:45:55 +0000 Subject: Re: BMW: K75 knocking noise in Gearbox - problem solved Hoping that the gearbox-knock would be eliminated I finally picked-up my bike from BMW on friday. After they had diagnosed on tuesday that the knocking came from the sprag-type starter-clutch - they had finally replaced the parts involved. The knocking has nearly completely disappeared - I still hear some knock somewhere but I am not sure whether this originates in the bike or in my fantasy. The technician showed me the replaced parts. There were two parts which were particulary interesting: The starter clutch gear pinion and the wheel on the starter idle shaft. The teeth on both parts- but especially on the wheel on the starter idle shaft -were worn off. On closer inspection it seemed that both parts were made from a different material or had a different surface treatment. It seemed that this had caused excessive wear on the teeth. The technician told me that the new parts had a surface which was not so "rough". The technician was happy as well that he had finally found a visible reason for the knocking-noise. I personally was amazed by the wear of the teeth after just 2000 km. Gerrit From "Thomas E. Haynes" Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:05:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: BMW: Fed Up, R1100R problems... it's long On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, James Martin wrote: > > Hosmann95NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: > > > > I'm really fed up with my 1996 R1100R, perhaps someone out there can help > > with some advice. > > > > My bike has now been in the shop five times (I now have 6,000 miles and > > bought it with 4,000 miles, it was the dealer's demo). I've had intermittent > > stalling problems since I got the bike. > > Steve, > I have had similar stalling problems with my '96 R1100GS. Usually when > I downshift to 2nd, sometimes 3rd, and generally only when the bike has > warmed up a bit. I seem to remember some other complaints such as this > and would appreciate you passing along any info ... > A friend of mine (not currently on the list) had a similar sounding problem. Everyone went nuts trying to diagnose. I predicted a fuel filter in keeping with my desire for simple solutions for complex problems. It turned out to be a bad thermo switch of some kind and a cracked fuel filter. It was pretty puzzling. Oddly since the filter is a consummable, it was not covered by the warranty even though it had cracked and clearly failed. The switch was warranty. Regards... Tom From "Lindal, Terje" Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 03:04:54 -0400 Subject: BMW: R1100R problems... it's long Hi, I've also had this kind of problem, on my R1100RS - when it was warmed up, downshift, stop. Now, the solution was quite simple. It has to do with the gas/air mixture. It was too poor. BMW states that it should be tuned so there is between 1.5 and 2.0 % CO in the outlet gas. That is if you don't have the catalytic converter. If you have that one I don't know the value. Anyway, the shops tend to go as low as possible and also below the lower limit. And then you'll typical experience this kind of behaviour. Then the good part. To have this checked and if needed changed is a one minute job. Go to who ever got the instrument for checking CO (any car or motorcycle shop, at least here in Norway). Have them check and tell them to go to upper limit. If it's already there, then this was not the problem. If you don't go to your BMW shop it might be they don't know how to change the mixture on your bike. Well, that too is quite simple. One the left side of the bike on the upper part of the frame just behind where you're normally siting is a small, black plastic box with a small hole in it. In the hole a normal screwdriver will fit and that's exactly what you do; use the screwdriver and instrument to get 2.0 % CO (at least not below)......... and I guess you're problem is gone. Good luck. Regards Terje. (first time on the list, and president of the Norwegian BMW Club by the way). From "Dale Wellborn" Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:35:44 -0700 Subject: BMW: Trick To Using J-B Weld To "Glue" Threads Hello. I'd like to pass on to you folks a trick my brother showed me. The Problem: I botched cutting the threads into the body of my throttle for a stop screw. Solution: Glue the throttle stop screw into the (too big) hole with J-B Weld (Epoxy). Trick: Clean the throttle body (i.e., the hole) and the throttle screw very well with acetone, and then carefully heat the throttle screw (see note below) and touch it to some paraffin/wax. The wax will melt and will be wicked onto the threads of the screw. And the J B Weld will not stick to the wax. 8-) We did the clean/wax steps above, mixed up the J B Weld, and applied it to both surfaces. We then mated the two surfaces. 16 hours later (the recommended curing time), we cracked the screw and all was well! 8-) Basically, we used the glue to form the missing threads. Some other benefits include: 1: The fit is so good and the glue somewhat soft that a retaining spring is not required. 2: Since the J B Weld forms the threads, you don't need a tap (which, for the throttle screw, is damn hard to find (I ended up borrowing the one which a buddy had his machine shop special order from Germany =8-0 )) Still, I think that having some sort of threads in the body helps the J B Weld adhere. So ... give it a try (if you every screw up like myself). But don't forget the all important wax! I hope this may help. Oh ya, the "note" about heating the throttle screw: since the screw contains a strong spring which pushes out the nylon/Teflon plunger, I'd advise that you clamp the screw lengthwise so that you're pushing the plunger in. When we heated the screw, the plunger softened due to the heat and was pushed out somewhat. Holding the plunger in in a vise may save you from this problem. Ciao. Dale Dale Wellborn D2W dwellbornNoSpam@NoSpamimg.net "I spent half my life's earnings on women and booze; the rest I just wasted." From John McClellan Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 19:41:07 -0600 Subject: BMW: Oil Level Window - Epilogue Thanks to everyone who offered advice, etc. on my oil level window/sight glass question (Geoff A., Phil R. Jeff D., Bill Z., Neil J., etc.); the possibilities were thoroughly addressed! I decided that I needed to replace the sight glass - so I picked one up at the dealer (Ride West BMW, Seattle). The process was very simple, as indicated by some of the above-mentioned President-advisors. 1. Smack (gently) a hole in the plastic sight glass, being careful not to send shrapnel into the engine case. 2. Pull off chunks of broken sight glass with a needle nose pliers. 3. Twist a 3-inch wood screw into one of the holes on the metal sight glass backing plate. 4. With a claw hammer, gently pry out the sight glass assembly using the screw. 5. oh yeah, put the bike on the sidestand first so the sight glass is on the "uphill" side. 6. After making sure no remaining plastic particles are left behind, press in the new sight glass assembly after rubbing some oil on its rubber gasket; seat it the rest of the way using a large socket as a drift. When I removed the old sight glass, about 8 ounces of oil came out (bike on side stand); I had just changed the oil and filled it with the manual-specified amount, accounting for no filter change. When I put the bike back up on the center stand, the oil level was clearly visible at the top of the red ring. Hmmmmmmmm. The metal backing plate on the old sight glass assembly was pretty gunked up with dark oil deposits, thus rendering the sight glass "inoperative". I've spelled this out here since I didn't find it on th eK-bike tech page. Thanks again for everone's advice. John McClellan '85 K100RT Arlington, Wash. From DSS38NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:44:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: BMW: Carb stix / Mercury Manometer wanted Bing Agency 1-800-309-5808 Tuning manual $6.95, -recommended Mercury synchroniger $34.95 These were recommended by factory trained wrench. Mine are on order. Haven't tried it yet. Dean Sanders Austin,TX R100GS From Tom Austin Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:35:33 -0700 Subject: BMW: Fuel catalyst Gunter Schroeder wrote: "A friend gave me a brochure on a Fitch fuel catalyst yesterday. A little internet browsing, came up with at least one other company, Broquet that makes a similar product which is supposed to improve overall the quality of the fuel burn, cleaner, more efficient etc. Anybody have any experience with these, know whether they are worth it, how much they cost, how long they last?" A lot of money is made selling products designed to significantly improve the efficiency with which fuel is burned. All such claims are bogus because the efficiency of fuel combustion in any modern engine approaches 100%. The overall efficiency of the engine might be only about 40% (even less at light load), but the inefficiency is primarily due to heat loss and energy dumped into the exhaust, NOT inefficient fuel combustion. The most effective way to achieve more power is to modify the engine so that it will burn more fuel (e.g., using higher displacement, higher rpm, turbocharging, etc.). Other, less effective techniques include burning the same amount of fuel with a higher compression/expansion ratio, burning the same amount of fuel faster (achieved with higher combustion chamber turbulence or multiple spark plugs), or somehow achieving reduced friction. Some engines can also achieve slightly more power with additional spark advance if an additive (e.g., MMT) increases the fuel's octane rating. None of these techniques actually improve the efficiency with which the chemical energy in the fuel is converted to heat, which is what a "catalyst" would supposedly do. Save your money. Tom Austin 97 R1100RT From "Phil Rupp" Date: 9 Sep 1997 15:53:27 -0400 Subject: BMW: FWD>RE>BMW- Turbo/ more pow Mail*Link(r) SMTP FWD>RE>BMW: Turbo/ more power on R100 R Erik, 1) Luftmeister made (makes?) a turbo, but Luftmeister has not enjoyed a good reputation for customer support recently. I have seen them on both R and K bikes. 2) I have a Luftmeister turbo on my K100 RS with RT fairing. Reliability? Start it and pick your road. There are 70,000 miles on this beast. My difficulty with it, only recently was the header cracked. I called Luftmeister, spoke with a female voice that called out my question. They didn't have another header, the voice just said "Weld it." Had a friend spit some sparks on it and I am back and running. Evan remarked that there were probably other people out there (hence my attachment to my BMW support group here on the list) that might need a header. Given the basically uninterested info from Luftmeister, I don't know where else you could turn. Call Matt any way, and see whether they have any new ideas. They were well known for fast chips and stuff back in the late '80's. Luftmeister is on the web, I appologize I don't have the site, but easily found by your favorite search engine. I would be interested in what you find. See you in Fontana? I'll be at the beer garden thursday 3-6p. All my best, Phil From Ingemar Luttu Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:12:05 -0500 Subject: BMW: RS100 no spark > ---------- > From: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com on behalf of MotorcyberNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com > Sent: Monday, September 15, 1997 9:31 AM > To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com > Subject: BMW: 1982 R100RS no spark > > > I have a 1982 R100RS that intermittantly looses spark, > usually when hot. Sometimes it happens while riding, > and other times after sitting for a short time after a ride > (e.g. stopping for gas and it won't start) All of the lights > work and it turns over like normal but no spark. > I let it sit for 30 minutes or so and it fires right up. > I've replaced the ignition module. battery, diode board > and that fixed it for about a month then, same problem! > help! > The first thing I did with my RS's(-76 & -82) was to change "hats" for the sparking plugs, from BMW's special, to the cheap ones you can buy everywhere (half a dollar or something). These original caps have caused a lot of trouble for me and many BMW-riders I know. Anyhow it's worth a try. Ingemar R1100RS -93 From Tom Coradeschi Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 15:55:52 EDT Subject: Re: BMW: 85 K100RS Surging Matt McGinn: >I am having a problem with slight surging on my '85 K100RS. The problem >appeared about a week ago and has become more pronounced over the week. > There is an occasional lag when I accelerate and the bike slows and >accelerates when I try to maintain a steady speed. Also when I rev the >engine in neutral, it will periodically lose 1000 rpm +/- and accelerate >again. Matt, check first things first. Plugs look ok? They should be a light tan in color. Are they? Check for loose hoses on the intake and for missing or cracked caps on the vaccuum ports at the base of each throttle butterfly. Air filter clean? Beyond that, I'd suspect the gas filter and possibly the fuel (water contamination will wreak havoc with the way your bike runs). tom "bookawitz" coradeschi <+> tcoraNoSpam@NoSpamskylands.ibmwr.org Skylands (NJ) BMW Riders <+> From Tom Coradeschi Date: Mon, 22 Sep 97 10:10:10 EDT Subject: Re: BMW: Calibrating Injection System Bob Anundson: >This week the new CC Products Catalog arrived. Its kind of a dream book for >me. Anyway among the goodies offered is the calibration of the injection >system for $129.95. relative to all the other cost of the bike this doesn't >sound like too much. However I'd like to know if any of the Presidents have >had this done to their bike and if it made any difference. Had it done. Made no difference.:-{ If you feel the urge to tinker, (and who doesn't?) read Rob Lentini's notes on the IBMWR K-Tech pages on doing it yourself. tom "bookawitz" coradeschi <+> tcoraNoSpam@NoSpamskylands.ibmwr.org Skylands (NJ) BMW Riders <+> From Avery Frail Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: BMW: Re: RTech: head work Hydraulic Lifters for your boxer: Several Years ago I contacted Weber Cams out in California. They've done hundreds of Volkswagen beetle engines and have done airhead BMWs. In case you don't know what's involved: you have to send them the crankcase and a *good* camshaft. The lifter bores are bored out to accept the new lifters and the oil passages have to be bored out to increase oil flow to the lifters. The cam has to be ground with a new profile for the hydraulic lifters. I didn't bother with this (too much bureaucratic red tape shipping out of country) but knowing of the success with the VW engines, it's well worth the effort and money. The company's address: Web Cam Racing Cams 1815 Massachusetts Ave. Riverside CA 92507 Phone 909.369.5144 FAX 909.369.7266 Hope this helps. I'd be interested in how everything turns out should you decide to go this route. >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:34:39 -0700 >From: "M. Peek" >Subject: BMW: RTech: head work >Help Help Help >I need to rebuild the heads on my R75/7 and I need some recommendations >on where to acquire parts. I am looking for: hardened valve seats, >stock valves or better in same or larger sizes, good source for >dual-porting, templates for porting, roller rockers (adjustable or >hydraulic style), aftermarket hydraulic valve kit (if such a beast >exists), rocker gear that I can abuse in a variety of climates, >altitudes, heat-ranges, and valve guides with renewable seals. The goal >is to end up with heads that run efficiently under varying conditions >and fuels with minimal valve lash that still produce a fair amount of >horsepower. Boy don't I want the world? If I can buy these parts >without sending out the heads, so much the better. ********************************* * Avery Frail * * Nepean Ontario * * Canada * ********************************* Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 03:54:36 -0400 (EDT) From: JBalzretteNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Subject: Re: BMW: /6 valve knocking, ideas? In a message dated 97-10-07 01:30:22 EDT, mgensmanNoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com writes: << Subj: Re: BMW: /6 valve knocking, ideas? Date: 97-10-07 01:30:22 EDT From: mgensmanNoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com (Mark Gensman) Sender: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-to: mgensmanNoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com (Mark Gensman) To: dlstephNoSpam@NoSpamibm.net (daniel stephens) CC: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com daniel stephens wrote: > > My '74 /6 is knocking on hard uphill accelerations. Any ideas on what > causes this and whether or not it can be prevented. I wonder if I'm > pushing the bike to it's limit? the bike has been double plugged, > lightened flywheel, balanced, recent valve adjustment, etc. > > Thanks in advance for any and all input. > > dan stephens Sounds like rod bearings to me. I'd pull the barrels and check it out before it gets real spendy. -- Mark Gensman MgensmanNoSpam@NoSpamix.netcom.com 95 K1100LT "You're never too old to rock and roll" K-Whiner #51 "The Green Hornet" >> AMEN to that. Check your rod bearings immediately. I didn't and spun a bearing and spent $$$$$$ putting the motor back together. Jim 76 R90S Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:00:00 -0400 From: Bob DeHaney Subject: BMW: Dyno Testing Just a note before the testing starts, officially the K1100 engines are specified at 98 DIN hp. This is for liability insurance classification reasons here in Germany. Das Motorrad dyno testing indicates that the factory is fudgeing (fudging?) a bit here as every one they've tested com= es in at 103-104 DIN hp. Same for the oilheads, approximately 2- 5 DIN hp more than in the specs. DIN hp is specified at the wheel, not the clutch so drivetrain losses are= not relevant. Bob in Munich '94 K1100RS Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:13:59 +0000 From: "Wes Jackson" Subject: Re: BMW: Oil Light at real low RPM? Bruce has a query that I can answer. Yeehaw! > Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:01:55 -0600 (MDT) > From: "B. SCHOOLING" > Tech. question that really seems stupid as I write it. Had ezacly the same myself a couple of months ago and asked all over. Finally figured it out for myself so will pass on my accumulated wisdom. I assume your RT has the factory oil cooler, same as my R100. I got lazy and thought I could get away without bleeding the oil cooler when I changed the filter. Next day the oil light started coming on at low rpm, same as yours. Trick is to follow the instructions in the Clymer manual. If you don't got the special bolt to hold the oil cooler valve open, make one as per their instructions. After installing the new filter, filling with oil and buttoning everything up, remove the 6 mm screw from the bottom of the oil filter cover and install the special screw. Remove the spark plugs, connect them to their leads and lay them on the heads so they're grounded. Turn the engine over with the starter until the oil light goes out. Remove the special screw, replace the 6 mm screw and spark plugs and you're done. If you don't got a Clymer, write me off line and I'll write out the instructions for you. Good luck. If your bike doesn't have an oil cooler, you're on your own. Wes Jackson Nanaimo BC Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:22:08 +0000 From: "keener" Subject: BMW: boxer top end prices Prezzes: I have done some comparison shopping for the rehab of my R100S' top end. Chased a valve cover leak last weekend and got carried away. Placed the resulting barrels, pistons and heads in the milk crate and off to A and S in Sacramento for some pricing. Valve job labor $300 both Valve Guides 20 ea If needed: Exh. Valve 68 ea Intake Valve 40 ea Helicoil Valve Cover studs labor 28 ea Clean (beadblast) piston, check to bore 55 both Ring set 60 With misc. seals, etc. the quote was about $810; All BMW parts and the assumption that new seats would not be required, parts would all be bead blasted and returned with new rings on pistons. They have done the job for me before and did good work and on time. However, the budget required that I shop. So....off to CC Products in San Jose. Same milk crate of parts, same assumptions. CC Products parts (valves and guides). All gaskets and helicoil work. So...Add *porting*: the total a little under $700. They charge $295 for porting. They will also use the intake valves if possible (price reduction). A valve job (3 angle) with guides, but sans valves is about $170. Sold my old friend, R100RT, last week (without the fairing which is for sale [complete and excellent]) which had CC Products valves and guides in it. No problem in 10M miles. CC got the job this time....I'll let you know how it works out. They said three weeks...longer than A and S by far. Had to go for it due to $$$$$. May be false economy. Bill Keener Coarsegold, Ca. Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:21:21 -0600 From: "Steve Aikens" Subject: Re: Re:BMW:150 mph (Gas?) You might have. The higher the Octane rating of a fuel, the slower and more evenly it burns, the cooler the engine runs, in a properly running engine. The lower the Octane rating of a fuel, the faster it burns, the hotter the engine runs. Hotter air temp = hotter engine = quicker burn Lower altitude = quicker burn Lower octane = quicker burn. Cooler air temp = cooler engine = slower burn Higher altitude = slower burn Higher octane = slower burn Pinging is caused by too quick/advanced of a burn. However, Octane ratings in Portugal are different than here in the US. The effects are the same. FWIW, I run the lowest grade gasoline I can, in my R1100RSL, without pinging. Usually running 87 or 88. - -- I don't suffer from insanity.....I enjoy every minute of it! Steve Aikens, Clovis, New Mexico steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com My BMW URL is http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4323/ Don't drop by very often, it never changes. Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 06:09:14 -0600 (CST) From: Paul or Voni Glaves Subject: BMW: Re: Turning K Engine by Hand This thread is now where I don't know who said what - but two people are saying the same thing and disagreeing about it. On the K bike the cam chain has a straight pull from the crankshaft to the camshaft - turning in the normal direction of rotation. The "back" side is tensioned by the tensioner and is not a straight pull. So to avoid undue tension against the tensioner when turning by wrench - depends on where you put the wrench. Go back and carefully read the thread copied below. The original post mentioned turning the cams directly by a wrench on the flats on the cam. In this case turning "backwards" would retain the straight pull between the cam and crank. The later posts mentioned turning the engine with a wrench at the front of the crankshaft. In this case - turning the normal direction would maintain the straight pull between the crank and cam. So - wrench on cam - turn backwards! but, wrench on crank - turn forwards! And, I don't recommend turning the engine by turning the cams anyway. It's easier to simply pull the little front cover and turn the crank, and this method has the chain pulling the cams from the crank the way the engine was supposed to run. Paul Glaves - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------> At 04:01 PM 11/21/97 -0700, you wrote: > > >>>> >>>>I found that I was unable to *easialy* turn the wheel in fifth, so I put >>>>bike in nuetral and turned the cams via the machined section that >>>>accomodates a 19mm 0pen end wrench. >>> >>>With plugs out and in fifth it should be easy to rotate the crank. >> >>It was not on mine and that is why I used the crank allen bolt. > >Now don't misunderstand. One has to lightly bang the rear wheel against >driveline slop to move the engine. I should have said this. > >> >>>None in the least. But if you use the wrench on the crank method I would >>>suggest >>>you turn the engine OPPOSITE its normal direction so as to not load up the >>>cam chain >>>tensioners. >> >>Huh? Turned fine for me. > >Oh, it will. But I don't like the idea of turning the cams so as to place >great loads on the tensioner as you would if you wrench the cams in the >normal operating direction. Maybe too anal? > > >>>Thicker (wider) is better on the exhuasts. Stay between .25 and .3 with >no >>>more than >>>a light pull if tight (NO forcing). Intakes should likewise be in their >.15 >>>to .2 tolerance. If anything, >>>valves should be looser than stock, but never tighter. I ran my K75 at .2 >>>to .25 intake >>>and .3 to .35 exhaust for increased mid-range power. >> >>Also, if they got tight, the idle goes to hell, and the exhaust sounds >>funny. BTDT. Anton has too. > >Improvements in low to mid-range can be felt with looser valves. And...on >my oilhead the hp improvement was significant throughout the low to mid >range with VERY LITTLE lost at peak. > >Rob > > > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:25:16 -0500 (EST) From: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu (jim roche) Subject: BMW: Lobe 2 Nose Can B Ill Mated >OK to put a new follower against an old lobe, but never a used follower >from another lobe. Paul, Dr Curve, Joe Katz, Kari, your opinions please! > >Bill Z > >------------------------------ Dear Bill, I am in complete agreement. Lifter shake will be excessive it used follower is ill mated to a different slope (lobe nose) than its already you'st to. Best, Jim(Dr.Curve)Roche jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu high performance old twins http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~jroche/index.html Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:25:45 EST From: JPDR1100 Subject: BMW: Valve Guide Wear In a message dated 97-12-09 01:57:37 EST, you write: << And, just in case there are some engine-wear wizards out there, >can anyone help explain why my valve stems and guides were >worn way beyond spec and the stupid buckets were not? >> My take on it is that the cam followers have the luxury of operating in a fully lubricated environment; oil everywhere. Thus the parts are hardened steel, the oil prevents wear. The valves can't get as much oil in the guides or it would be sucked into the engine and burned (or blown out the exhaust). Thats why valve guide seals are above the guides. Without the lubricating oil, you can't run hard metal on hard metal, like the cam followers. Therefore the guides are made of material meant to be sacrificed to the wear gods. Reality can be a bummer. jpd R11RS KRS Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:04:14 -0700 From: "Rob Lentini" Subject: BMW: re: Erratic K75 acceleration Steve asks: ==== Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:34:07 -0800 From: Don Eklund Subject: BMW: Erratic K75 acceleration Hi Folks, I would like to draw on the collective wisdom of the list to see if = anyone out there has experienced this one. I commute on my 92' K75S and as such have logged 35K miles (just broken = in, I know). I ride and hour each way, usually above the speed = California allows. Recently I have notice when not on the freeway that = the motor often stumbles under medium acceleration between 2k and 4k = RPM. The problem started about a week ago and seems to be getting = worse. When it acts up it feels like someone is hitting the kill switch = very quickly two or three times. The bike is rarely wet, and I have so = far checked the wiring to the black box, read the plugs (fine), and = checked for a strong spark at the plug while cranking. The next thing = my gut tells me to do is have peek at the venturi ports for crud, but = this doesn't look like a quick job. Please help me get out of my car = and back on my bike by telling me you have experienced this and I just = need to change the ?. Thanks, Don Eklund 92' K75S ==== Something similar to this happened to my K75S. It was a bad load of gas. I had to run the p__s out of it to clear out the gunk/water from the injectors. Later I flushed the tank and replaced the fuel filter. Try injector cleaner, drain the tank upside down, and a fresh fuel filter to see if this helps. best, Rob Lentini Tucson, AZ H 520-790-8865 W 520-295-6411 '94 R1100RS Oilhead and K Tech MSF Instructor IBMWR "Lunch" Planner Director, BMW Motorcycle Owners of America IT'S SPRING IN TUCSON!!! (Winter Riding Season) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:19:26 -0700 From: "Eric vandenhoek" Subject: BMW: water extraction from K tank WO removing tank Future refference.. Don't know if the water would damage the pump but here is a easy way to remove fuel from the tank: Taken from the list..... >>>>Slide the tank back so you can get at the fuel pump discharge line. Disconnect it. Connect up some line that will go a gas can or over to the cage gas filler. NO SMOKING AT THIS POINT! Remove fuse 6. Connect a jumper from the Battery plus terminal to the Fuse 6 right side contact. This energizes the pump and pumps out the tank. Eaiser than lifting it off eh?<<<<< Dispose of water/gas properly please.... - -- Learning from the difficulties of life is the key to living. Me Eric VanDenHoek '85 K100RS BMW http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/4488/ MSF Instructor / MOA# 74038 / RC Pilot evandenhoekNoSpam@NoSpamcsu.org / captainhoekNoSpam@NoSpamgeocities.com Colorado Springs Utilities - Electric ITT Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:47:30 -0500 From: Robert Bell - COP Subject: RE: BMW: More 16 Valve clearance setting experience I'm not sure whether I am willing to volunteer or not, but : Brian sez: >> I go for reusing them, and only buying what I need. And if there was a 16Valve Bucket registry that people could exchange over it would be real nice for those that are fortunate enough to have the 16Valve engines.<< I am in possession of 6 used buckets out of a k1. 4 of them are polished, not worn. Two others have some corrosion on them. 1 ea. 2.75 1 ea. 2.80 2 ea. 2.90 corroded: (I wouldn't use just on GP's) 1 ea.2.80 1 ea. 2.90 And from the respected Joe Katz Subject: Re: BMW: More 16 Valve clearance setting experience Redirected without permission, but I am sure without problems. It sure ain't of a personal, attacking, or derogatory nature. And it is of importance $$$ to all those that ride the 16 valve motors. Brian. ================================================================= Brian: I'll second Bob Bell's comments --- a bucket is a bucket is a bucket. There are a lot of old wives tales out there that somehow must be made to fade away. Just measure the shim or bucket; if it's what you need then use it. Joe Katz, retired wrench, 103602.300NoSpam@NoSpamcompuserve.com DeLand, Florida - ----------------------------------------------------- The secret -- lies in knowing what good work is, and being willing to take the pains to do it that way. Lucien Cary Bob.bellNoSpam@NoSpamdigital.com Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:55:33 -0500 From: Brian Curry Subject: Re: BMW: Octane Booster At 02:29 PM 12/17/97 -0800, Don Lescoulie wrote: > >Duner Tor wondered: > > > Last year,upon returning from Baja,I found that my 11GS plugs were >> trashed. At the time I assumed it was caused by crappy gas. >> Recently,someone pointed out that it was probably octane booster(which I >> used) that caused the problem. Any opinions on this? Is the measure of >> booster per tank of gas critical? Should I stay away from booster >> altogether and not worry about the occasional pinging? Thanks. > >Duner, before my trip to Baja on my R11GS last spring, I asked my dealer >Robertito which octane booster to use and he said not to use any under >any circumstances. I can't remember exactly why but I think he mentioned >possible injector problems. He said the Motronics would adjust to the >lower octane. I find this hard to believe. The bike Motronics does not have a "knock/ping" sensor. It will hold to the original map. I had very little pinging, only on very heavy and abrupt >roll-ons. And pinging should only occur when you are running large throttle openings where the combustion chamber pressures get nice and high and the heat of compression along with the flame front compression heating get the unburned/ignited low octane fuel to spontaneously combust. If you keep to light throttles you should not get pinging. The combustion chamber pressures and temps don't get high enough. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | To infuse moral concepts into a political discussion is simply to | | confuse the issue.... Morality is not involved in achieving policy. | | - William Fulbright 1959 | | | | Brian Curry, 1990 Blue K75RTs both coasts, Chester Springs, PA, USA | | SoD #23 | | | | KGN- Improving Lives Around The World | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:26:23 -0500 From: Brian Curry Subject: Re: BMW: Help: Valve Adjustment vs. Idle At 05:21 PM 12/28/97 -0700, Brian Skow wrote: > >The bike: 1983 R65LS > >The mechanic: Inexperienced, but desiring to learn. > >The operation: Valve adjustment. > >The scenario: Upon receipt from the shop after a tune-up, the bike will >run flawlessly. Over time the idle will get low (500 rpm), at which time >the bike goes into the shop for tuning. In questioning the mechanic about >the idle cycle, I'm told that over time (miles) the exhaust valves get >tight on the bike and this lowers the idle. Desiring to do more and more >work on my bike on my own, the next time the idle gets low I undertake a >valve adjustment. Following the Clymer manual is fairly easy, until it's >time to find TDC using the OT and hash mark system. I struggle with the >instructions versus what I'm seeing, but use my best judgement and adjust >the valves. If I did the adjustment properly, the intake valves were well >set and didn't need adjustment, but the exhaust valves were way tight and I >adjusted them to the loose side of .008. > >The test run: The bike runs well, with the right cylinder fairly quiet and >the left a bit "tappety." Too loose? And, as for the idle...way high! >1500 rpm. > >Please advise, fellow presidents. What have I done wrong? Is there a >correlation between valve settings and idle? Any Phoenix presidents want >to help me with a second try? Yes, there is a idle correlation based on K bikes. I never noticed it on the R's but they never changed that much on mine. (All pre "problem seats/valves".) Check with the Quack Pack out of Phoenix that get together for such. Generally tappety is better than quiet. On "classic" R's with "real" (read heavy) flywheels, finding the mark is easy, or at least I think so. One way to find TDC and what to look for, is put a pencil in the spark plug hole and watch it as you turn the crankshaft. When it starts to slow down as it moves out, you are near TDC. When you find it, use some solvent and clean the area, and then paint the mark with some fingernail polish (White for visability). Should be easier next time around. If your exhausts are rapidly closing, this is NOT GOOD. The valves are going away. Think real hard about a valve job with then new seat materials and new valves. Doing the job before the valve head drops off the stem is much cheaper than doing it after it drops off and pounds a hole in the piston, and gouges the cylinder head. OUCH!! :((( +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | To infuse moral concepts into a political discussion is simply to | | confuse the issue.... Morality is not involved in achieving policy. | | - William Fulbright 1959 | | | | Brian Curry, 1990 Blue K75RTs both coasts, Chester Springs, PA, USA | | SoD #23 10% #3 | | | | KGN- Improving Lives Around The World | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:49:25 -0700 (MST) From: "Bryan Lally (lallyNoSpam@NoSpamlanl.gov)" Subject: re: BMW: Re: The early Ks, Vibe Cures, etc. Long centaurNoSpam@NoSpamsfol.com's keyboard spoke: | Don Eilenberger made some comments about the older K bikes. | >4. Use premium gas - some better than others - generally best on Sunoco | Ultra, OK on Mobil premium.. this can be noticed right away. Later models | may be able to use regular gas - the '85 cannot and stay happy. | | I'm surprised by this. I've always run regular cheapo gas in my 85 KRS. It | always seems to work fine. I know fuels are blended differently for | different regions. Maybe our New Mexico regular works better than your New | Jersey stuff? Guess I'll have to try premium and see if I can tell any | difference. Richard, You're running yours at 7000+'. Don's down there at about 7'. The atmospheric pressure at 7000' is about 70% of what it is at sea level, hence your combustion pressures and temperatures are way down. You don't need much in the way of octane to prevent detonation. Ever notice that the highest octane we can buy here is 91, maybe 92? We can never even find the 94 that you can buy down low. We just don't need it, unless we're running a turbocharger to boost the pressures back up. You _might_ find that the increased detergents in premium gas would help, but you can get the same effect by putting in a little Techron once in a while. One more thing that helps eliminate vibration that I found on a K100 I worked on one time was a very careful throttle body sync. Not just using the brass screws, but by using the "don't touch those ever" screws. Really smoothed out the one I did. Then again, our friends at you know where had tuned it before I got to it, so I had a great starting point to look good! Let me know if you want the details. - Bryan - ---------------------------------- Bryan Lally, blallyNoSpam@NoSpamconcentric.net Lost Almost, New Mexico '82 R65LS, red '98 R1100RS, red '94 K75S (gone, but it was red) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:31:32 GMT From: Cynthia.MiltonNoSpam@NoSpamUK.Sun.COM (Cynthia Milton - Telco Platforms Group Slough) Subject: BMW: Cold-blooded anything - ---------------------- Anyone have a technique that works on this bike when cold and having sat that I should have tried? Does it get less tempermental in cold weather as the miles build up? - ----------------------- I posted this once before - pour a kettle-full of very hot water over the carbs/injectors and inlet tracts. The bike won't start because the petrol won't vaporise because it's too cold. Liquid petrol doesn't burn - it's the vapour that does. Always works, on anything. Regards Cynthia X-Sender: bmwbrianNoSpam@NoSpampopmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (16) Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 01:18:02 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Brian Curry Subject: BMW: Break-In advice Cc: jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu (jim roche), tcoraNoSpam@NoSpampica.army.mil, Rob Lentini , deilenbergerNoSpam@NoSpammonmouth.com, Paul or Voni Glaves , "Diaz Jon" Sender: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Brian Curry X-No-Archive: yes X-Bmw-List: Majordomo 1.94.3 X-Web-Page: http://www.ibmwr.org/ X-Copyright: (c) IBMWR and the original author(s). This showed up over on the WetLeather list. IMO, good advice. It has _logic_, and _rational_ to it as opposed to "You Vill Do It THIS WAY" because I feel like it. Plus since I have done it very similar to this, I have had excellent experience. The URL is below and then the full text of what is at that Web site. Brian. ============================================================================= http://www.micapeak.com/TL1000S/faq/#Q4 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The best way to "break-in" any new piston engine is to NOT "baby it" by keeping the RPM under some manufacturer's "magical limit". Have you ever heard the line "if you don't break it in hard, it will never run hard?" Well, there IS quite a bit of merit to this statement once all the reasons are fully understood. I'm sure that we can all agree that THE ONLY WAY any piston engine "breaks in" is by "wearing off" and "polishing" any and all the "high spots" to make a perfect, custom, low friction fit between all the important parts. Time alone at reduced RPM WILL NOT ACCOMPLISH THIS! It takes MAX RPM for all the parts to make contact that would NOT normally contact and "wear-in" at some reduced RPM level. The best method for this to occur is to run the engine right up to the manufacturers listed "red line", BUT with the LEAST LOAD POSSIBLE (remember load = heat and NEW pistons DO NOT like excessive heat!). How do you do this? Well, with any vehicle that has a gearbox, it's real easy. When the bike/vehicle is brand new, you begin a series of "low load", HIGH RPM runs (right up to red line), but ONLY in FIRST GEAR. This gives the VERY necessary "high RPM wear-in" for the pistons and max "gas pressure" on the rings to press them into the cylinder wall so they can seat WITHOUT high load/heat. This first gear high RPM blast will only last a second or so max. DO NOT be tempted to run through all the gears on a new bike - WAY TOO MUCH LOAD = HEAT! In fact, it's well known that if you DO hold WOT on your new bike in top gear, the piston-to-wall clearance can actually approach a PRESS FIT!!! As the mileage rolls up on your bike/vehicle, you can create higher load by simply going UP into the next gear and grab WOT, to your max RPM "redline". What I normally suggest is that you perform a "WOT first gear blast" about every 20 miles or so until you reach 100 to 150 miles. "Second gear WOT blasts" will obviously take longer (about 2 seconds) because of the taller gear and more load and should be performed at about the same intervals as the "first gear runs" and continued until around 500 miles. Continuing with the above WOT and "next highest gear" scenario is pretty much up to the individual and is not completely written in stone as to how fast to progress through all the gears, but completion of all 5 or 6 "WOT gear runs" should be within 1500 to 2000 miles (very subjective here). An occasional COMPLETE COOLING OFF about every 100 miles or so is very important to help "heat cycle" and "season" the various high temp engine components. If you want to know the WORST WAY to break in an engine, just follow the manufacturers suggestions "TO THE LETTER" by keeping your engine under some "magical RPM limit" and continue to upshift all the way into 5th or 6th to prevent exceeding this "contrived RPM limit" while adding a little more throttle to keep up the pace with traffic (or your buddies!). You can easily see that you will eventually begin to "lug" the engine which is ABSOLUTELY THE WORST THING you could do to your new ride. With this scenario, you will quickly get into that "operational press fit" situation I described above - possibly damaging your engine. So - LET IT REV!!! (within the above guide lines of course)." Brian Curry | "The irony of the Information Age is that it K75RTs both coasts | has given new respectability to uninformed Chester Springs, PA, | opinion." USA | - Veteran reporter John Lawton, 68, speaking to SoD #23 10% #3 | the American Association of Broadcast KGN- Improving Lives| Journalists in 1995 Around The World |