From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri May 23 15:50:00 1997 Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:27:36 -0700 From: "Max C. McHatton" To: Hosmann95NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Re: Kalahari Jacket References: <970523025947_943516982NoSpam@NoSpamemout03.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: "Max C. McHatton" Hosmann95NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: > > I looked at the BMW Kalahari jacket also. Actually, the dark grey material > near the shoulders is made with some cool thread which reflects white when > light shines on it (it appears that 3M is everywhere these days). > > The dealer here had a Polaroid picture of one which was taken with a flash to > show how the jacket changes appearance. Pretty cool, but very expensive > jacket. > > I looked at another jacket, this one made by Firstgear, called the > Kilimanjaro. It had a zipper across the back from shoulder to shoulder with > a silver reflective strip which can be displayed at night (as well as opened > to offer ventilation). It's also a ballistic nylon material, although the > fabric over most of the jacket appears to be thinner and lighter weight than > the BMW jacket (it did have thicker ballistic patches in spots and some thin > foam "armor" padding on the elbows, shoulders, and back). It cost $299 at a > local accessories shop vs. about $650 for the BMW jacket. > > I'm primarily interested in a jacket which offers good ventilation for > warm-weather riding. In this respect, the Firstgear jacket seems to have > better ventilation than the BMW. Does anyone own one? Any thoughts? I bought a BMW Kalahari jacket after alot of searching. It replaced a H. G. Timbucktu jacket. The timbucktu jacket also had a zippered vent across the shoulders, but because the nylon fabric was coated on the inside with a water proofer, it didn't breath, and areas not effected by the ventilation(the ventilation only effected my arms and shoulders)got very warm, wet and uncomfortable. The Kalahari doesn't have a vent on the back, probably due to the compromize in protection that a vent would create. However, the outer shell is very breathable, and with the Goretex liner removed, and the arm vents open, I get alot more ventilation, overall, than I did with my Timbucktu. To my suprise, and one of the reasons that I bought the Kalahari, is that it fits me. I'm rather large. My suitcoat size is 50 extra-long. I have a 38 inch sleve length, and the Kalahari fits me. The Kalahari also has excelent safety features. It gives great comfort, without compromising crash protection. I also gave strong consideration to the Aerostich Darien, as it is available in tall sizes. Three factors sold me on the Kalahari: I already had black BMW Goretex pants that would zipper to the Kalahari; the Goretex liner is removable, therefore more versatile; and finaly, I got a deal on one, as its arms and body length were to long for the short and very stocky man it was ordered for. After using it for about six months, in temperatures ranging from 34 to 90 degrees f., and in the rain: I would definately buy another one. Max From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jun 3 11:08:06 1997 To: "David C.C. Sprague" From: Jeff Dunkle Subject: Re: BMW: Aerostich Suits Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com (IBMWR List) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:26:57 +0000 Reply-To: Jeff Dunkle David Sprague asked:: >Texas. I was wondering if anyone out there has tried the Aerostich >suits in 85 to 100 degree Fahrenheit weather. Out of the people who >have tried the Aeorstich suits, has anyone had any comparison to the >Kilimanjaro? The Kilimanjaro is great at about 65 degrees Fahrenheit, >but it gets uncomfortable above 80. I treat my Darien as a "system" consisting of: jacket, pants, fleece jacket/liner, fleece pants liner, electric vest, and thermal underware. Jacket ok to about 90.....95 in low humidity. Above that put ice in the pockets, gel coller, soaked t-shirt, etc. Pants ok to about 85. Above that I've been known to remove them and just do jeans To date my "only" complaint about the Darien is the pants come only in black. In high temp and high sun angles the thighs absorb heat. >From about 50 degrees to about 85 degrees the jacket and pants are fine.....vented as necessary. Between about 40 and 50 degrees the fleece goes on underneith. Below 40 degrees I add the electric vest. Below about 30 degrees I add thermal underware. Below about 20 degrees I don't ride too much. Jeff Dunkle Monroeville, PA 412-374-1231 BOOF #17, K-whiner #41, SoD #8 Pres. Four Winds BMW Riders '81BMW R100 "The Black" Pittsburgh, PA '86 BMW K75 "Shadow" ABC, MOA, RA, BMWBMW, RBR From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jun 3 12:15:32 1997 From: steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 09:21:52 -0600 Organization: PC Solutions, Inc. To: "David C.C. Sprague" Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Aerostich Suits Reply-To: steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com David C.C. Sprague wrote: > > Yesterday, I happened upon Aeorstich's web page and was pretty > interested in their one-piece suits. I have a one hour commute to work > on my bike (R1100RS) and find the Kilimanjaro jacket and pants really > hot. Maybe I think it is hot and humid because I live in central > Texas. I was wondering if anyone out there has tried the Aerostich > suits in 85 to 100 degree Fahrenheit weather. Out of the people who > have tried the Aeorstich suits, has anyone had any comparison to the > Kilimanjaro? The Kilimanjaro is great at about 65 degrees Fahrenheit, > but it gets uncomfortable above 80. I wear a Roadcrafter one-piece. If you have to sit still at a light or something, more than a minute or so, it's hot at anything above 90 to me. Below that, it's not much of a problem, even in central and lower Texas - or here in Clovis. Once under way, it's ok to about 95 in the higher humidity areas, then it gets uncomfortable. Just a trade-off. Comfort Safety, sometimes. If it gets too hot when I'm riding, I prefer to just take the 'stitch off and wear a long sleeve shirt. Although the chances of falling down are always there, the probability I'll fall is significantly lower than the probability I'll become overheated and succumb to heat exhaustion in the 'stitch, in those higher temps. Being in the southwest, dehydration and heat exhaustion are a real possibility and must be really watched for. If you come out this way, always carry water and drink plenty of it to minimumize it. -- I don't suffer from insanity.....I enjoy every minute of it! Steve Aikens, Clovis, New Mexico steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com My BMW URL is http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4323/ Don't drop by very often, it never changes. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jun 3 14:14:07 1997 From: "Pat Roddy" To: "David C.C. Sprague" Cc: "BMW List" Subject: BMW: Re: AeroStich Suits Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:25:36 -0400 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Pat Roddy" David asks: I was wondering if anyone out there has tried the Aerostich > suits in 85 to 100 degree Fahrenheit weather. Out of the people who > have tried the Aeorstich suits, has anyone had any comparison to the > Kilimanjaro? The Kilimanjaro is great at about 65 degrees Fahrenheit, > but it gets uncomfortable above 80. > > Thanks, > > David Sprague David, although we may not have the constant above 100 temps you have, here in GA we do have full blown 90s for days on end with HIGH humidities (75-95) ugh! I won't lie to you-the AeroStich two piece I have is hot, real hot, ESPECIALLY when riding my K1100LT (fully faired). Even when moving, you don't catch much breeze behind that moving barn door. On the R100GS, however, and its minimalist windshield, I remain comfortable at any speed above being stopped. That's why I opt for the GS in warmer months and the K in cooler months. :-) I would strongly recommend the 2 piece over the one piece--it is a few bucks more but oh so much more versatile. In ungodly hot weather, I've been to eschew the pants, throw them in a saddlebag and continue wearing only the jacket. The 'Stich is fairly well ventilated, with two vertical vents under your arms and a horizontal vent across the back under the reflective fabric. Since it does have two zipper thingies (great technical term) you can unzip the jacket from the bottom several inches to increase flow though ventilation. As for the Kaliharis, no, I have no direct experience with them on a motorcycle. However, working at Blue Moon Cycles part time, I have seen several of them sold. They, too, are hot. This is coming from customers. Remember, they are also black, the worst color to have when it is sunny and hot; not to mention hard to see, despite their reflective fabric, when it is dark. ("Any color as long as it is black" as Henry Ford used to say. The pants are well armored and heavy duty, but the Kalihari pants are not really made to wear over clothes like the 'Stich is. Getting in and out of the pants is basically a sit down procedure, remove boots, etc. Again, this is from direct observation of customers wearing them as they come in from the parking lot. The main advantage I can see is that you can remove the zipped-in Gore-Tex liner (that DOES give you better protection from rain, at speed, than the 'Stich does due to its superior storm flap. The main disadvantage of the Kalihari that I have experienced, though, is getting into the jacket. It is a bitch to seal up the liner (zipper, then several snaps that are backwards to me at least), then a very flimsy zipper that very easily cross-zips if it is not aligned properly. I would imagine that for me, at least, if I started suiting up in the Kalihari out in the parking lot, getting into the pants, etc, putting on my boots, screwing around with the storm flap, that if I had gone ahead with the 'Stich, I'd be 10 miles down the road already. With a little 'practice, it IS possible, as AeroStich advertises, to get into it and out of it in 10 seconds. The Kalihari, IMVHO, will take minutes. With some fine tuning, the Kalihari will be a good suit to have. But again, IMVHO, V=very), for the extra 300.00 or so you'll spend, I'd opt for the 'Stich and spend the remaining 300 bux on a new helmet or on some of the goodies in the Rider Wearhouse catalog :-) And if Andy Goldfine ever reads this...."Hey Andy!...get a better storm flap for the Aerostich"!!!!!!!!!!!! pr Just trying to call them as I see them :-) They are both very good suits, but if I had to replace my fading red 'Stich right this moment, I would not hesitate to buy another one. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jun 3 17:31:39 1997 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 13:33:37 -0700 From: "Richard Lazar" Organization: Vanguard Computer Sales To: BMW MAIL LIST Subject: BMW: Aerostich Suits X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Reply-To: "Richard Lazar" My two piece suit is HOT above 80f. I have tried most of the tricks with vents, and wetting down my shirt-pants with water seems to help. This is my biggest complaint about my suit. Above 85f I have to take off the pants, as I can't stand it. With my Aeroflow screen on it is much worse, so I only use that in cool weather. Sorry for the lack of good news. -- ****************************************************************************** Richard Lazar Vanguard Computer Sales '85 KRS 1910 W. Redondo Beach Bl Gardena CA 90247 mailto:vanguardNoSpam@NoSpambeachnet.com ****************************************************************************** From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 4 11:40:46 1997 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 11:47:52 -0400 From: Roger Traversa To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Cc: kalisodeNoSpam@NoSpamerols.com Subject: BMW: bmw-Care for Leathers - Reply Reply-To: Roger Traversa Prez. Dan asks: >There have been innumerable threads about care of our bikes but what about our leathers? How do I care for them? Do I wash them with saddle soap? Condition them with conditioner? Well, I like to keep my whip very nimble so I soak it in oil once every six months. My leather teddy and head gear get wash..... Ohhhhh, you mean riding gear. Everything leather gets cleaned with a moderately stiff brush and water when dirty once or twice a year (I do mine late winter and late summer) (Satin linings can be cleaned with a mild spray on cleaner which is removed with a damp sponge. Steaming also works well.) If the dirt is particularly ground in, some saddle soap is called for (but this is very drying so careful). After the item is clean and dry, the oils must be restored. Mink oil is a good choice (I mix mink oil and Bag Balm (sold at your local pharmacy Bag Balm was created and is sold for treating cow udders (living leather) and is generally composed of petroleum jelly)). The oil should be rubbed thoroughly into every portion of the leathers (especially wear points). Leave some excess on (a thin coat, but wiping away any large deposits). Let the item hang in a cool dry place overnight or some times longer. Go over the gear, removing any excess (especially near seams). In a couple of weeks I'll look over the jacket for deposits and and residue (should turn white and chalky) and remove same with a moderately stiff brush. After the last step, I'll apply a couple of coats of silicone spray (some people say this doesn't allow the leather to breathe accelerating its deterioration). I say it stops the water when I ride in the rain and there. I generally use the same procedure on all my non-shiny leather (wallets, gloves, whips, boots, etc. but it will wrech the finish on dress belts and shoes) With TLC, I've kept a lot of leather items useful for far longer than would normally be expected. YMMV Roger Traversa From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 4 12:29:47 1997 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:19:55 -0700 From: Scott Lee Organization: CAD Toolbox To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: re: Lexol for Leather Reply-To: Scott Lee My wife, being a quasi-veteran horse owner (4 so far) uses Lexol on her tack stuff, but does NOT use it on the car interior or leather clothing as she has found that it attacks some of the "wimpier" thread materials used in non-tack applications. If you are sure that you are dealing with a high quality sewn article you are probably OK, but if the cost reducers have gone to wimpier threads, beware. Maybe a garment/leather goods professional out there can help me out on specifics of thread type, and why some are attacked by Lexol.. Scott Lee Somewhere in L.A. NOT #e From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 4 12:45:20 1997 From: MTCollNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:14:13 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Re: Care of Leathers Reply-To: MTCollNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com There are lots of products out there, but Mink Oil seems to work fine. It's relatively cheap, readily available, and helps keep the leather supple. I doubt that any of the other pricey leather conditioners work any better. I don't use Saddle Soap very often; maybe twice a year. If I get grunge (usually bugs) on my jacket, I just wipe it off with a wet sponge and touch up with Mink Oil. I've had my jacket for over 10 years now, and it still looks new. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 4 13:01:24 1997 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:01:14 -0800 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: tdcNoSpam@NoSpamwell.com (Tom Childers) Subject: Re: BMW: Care of Leathers Reply-To: tdcNoSpam@NoSpamwell.com (Tom Childers) Dan Kalish asks: >There have been innumerable threads about care of our bikes but what >about our leathers? > >I'm dead serious with these poseurs. I bought a new First Gear jacket >last fall (for almost as much as a used car) and I have my college >jacket which kind of stands up like a boot (and which I'm trying to sell). >How do I care for them? Do I wash them with saddle soap? Condition >them with conditioner? On the inside or the outside? Do I waterproof >them? I use several products, in this order: Saddle soap to clean off the bug guts, Lexol leather conditioner, which simply sprays on and soaks in, Meltonian shoe cream to restore the black color (when needed), Mink oil. I've also used Harley-Davidson Leather conditioner and Alpinestar Waterproofing Paste for the final step. Both work very well, however the Alpinestar stuff contains beeswax, and will probably build up if you continue to use it. Better to wear a good rain suit than try to waterproof your leathers. The Alpinestar stuff works GREAT on boots and gloves, by the way! -tdc Tom Childers 1989 K100RS, 78,000 mi. tchilderNoSpam@NoSpamsybase.com, tdcNoSpam@NoSpamwell.com 1979 R100S, 91,000... Corte Madera, California 1979 528i, 190,000... From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 4 13:52:50 1997 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 17:10:31 +0100 From: Nick Horley To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Kalahari suit Reply-To: Nick Horley Pat Roddy made a number of points about the BMW Kalahari suit: I've had one for a year, and did a two month, 9000 mile tour of Europe in it last summer. I can't compare it with an Aerostich, as my only other suit is a leather one, but I thought I'd add to Pat's views. I should mention I ride a R1100GS - the best tourer BMW make, and a heap better in hot weather than an RT or LT! I should also mention that I'm English, which probably disqualifies me from understanding touring, American-style! Anyway, Pat says: > They are hot... Hotter than a T-shirt yes, but I don't see how any truly protective suit could be much cooler than a Kalahari. With the Gore-Tex lining removed, all you have is a layer of Cordura, which is not wind-proof, and a mesh lining. Plus you have inch wide vents which unzip all the way up the arms, leaving just the mesh between you and the elements. The only way to get it substantially cooler would be to put vents in the chest - I wish they would. >they are also black, the worst color to have when it is sunny...hard to see, despite their reflective fabric, when it is dark... Well...they are sandy yellow on the shoulders, where you get direct rays from the sun in the middle of the day. Plus they look great. If you want brighter colours, BM have (or had) an identical suit in orange, purple and silver/white - I think it was called the Marrakesh? I think it looks horrific, but then I hate the look of Aerostich suits as well - no points for style! >The pants are well armored and heavy duty... Yes, the armour is great and the suit seems tough. I haven't crash tested it yet, despite hitting a large rock at 100 mph in Portugal and trashing both wheel rims. I am concerned about the loose fit of the jacket - in a crash the elbow armour might well move out of place and fail to protect the joint, especially if you have the vents open. >but not really made to wear over clothes like the 'Stich is. Getting in and out of the pants is basically a sit down procedure, remove boots, etc. All true. But if the whole idea is to keep cool, why would you wear clothes under the suit? If the trousers had a loose fit to allow this, the armour wouldn't stay in place in a crash. The jacket does allow you to wear lots of extra layers, and I use it in the winter with a heated vest and thermal underwear. But bagginess does not make for safety. >The main advantage I can see is that you can remove the zipped-in Gore-Tex liner (that DOES give you better protection from rain, at speed, than the 'Stich does due to its superior storm flap... Good news. I like the suit for lots of other reasons: the lining can be stowed in a pocket in the rear of the jacket, you get a Gore-Tex document pouch to keep your passport dry, the whole thing is easy to clean in the washing machine, the inside of the knees have leather pads to help you grip the tank when braking, cornering etc, the trousers can be worn inside your boots (for that motocross look) or outside (great in the rain), the jacket has external pockets angled to make it easy to get stuff out while riding. But the best thing about the suit is its four-season versatility. Even on a weekend trip you can encounter everything from freezing rain to desert conditions, and with the Kalahari you never wish you had room to pack a spare suit. If I have to take to the woods after the Apocalypse I'll live in it. > The main disadvantage of the Kalihari that I have experienced, though, is getting into the jacket. It is a bitch to seal up the liner (zipper, then several snaps that are backwards to me at least), then a very flimsy zipper that very easily cross-zips if it is not aligned properly... It gets much easier with a little practice - and in hot weather you won't be using the lining anyway. If you hit a summer storm, you can ride through it without stopping to put the lining in. The suit dries in minutes when the rain stops if you keep the speed up. The suit does have other faults: the hip armour twists into two pieces after a lot of wear, the collar fastens with velcro, and really needs something more secure, and your bum (ass?) gets a little sore on long rides in hot weather. Good grief, all these words about one suit. Apologies for my verbal diarrhoea - the enthusiasm of a net newbie doing his first posting! One more thing - BMW also do some incredible summer gloves - the fabric between the fingers is completely non-windproof, and they feel soooo cool! Make sure you remove the hand guards from your GS to get the full effect! From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jun 4 20:07:17 1997 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 16:34:26 -0700 From: Bill Juhl To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: re: Lexol for Leather Reply-To: Bill Juhl Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:20:14 -0600 > From: steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com > Subject: Re: BMW: re: Lexol for Leather > > Scott Lee wrote: > > > > My wife, being a quasi-veteran horse owner (4 so far) uses Lexol on her > > tack stuff, but does NOT use it on the car interior or leather clothing > > as she has found that it attacks some of the "wimpier" thread materials > > used in non-tack applications. If you are sure that you are dealing > > with a high quality sewn article you are probably OK, but if the cost > > reducers have gone to wimpier threads, beware. > > Maybe a garment/leather goods professional out there can help me out on > > specifics of thread type, and why some are attacked by Lexol.. > > > > Interesting post. Been using the stuff for some time now and have had > no problems, but that doesn't mean I won't. > > I'd be real interested in any additional information on Lexol if > someones got it. > - -- > I don't suffer from insanity.....I enjoy every minute of it! > > Steve Aikens, Clovis, New Mexico Basically leather has two main needs ... the first is to be cleaned of dirt and films that accumulate ... any good saddle soap is good for that ... the oldtimers swore by glycerine saddle soap and I've seen 50+ year old saddles in excellent shape that saw an occasional saddlesoaping as their only maintenance. Plain water cleaning is ok as well, but won't cut accumulated films of oils/grease/etc. Saddle soap does have a side effect in that it also removes natural (desirable) lubricants that are in the leather from tanning and that act as softeners. Lexol has been used with a lot of success for a very long time ... my first brush with it was treating tooled leathers in the 50's. It used to be only a professionals leather treatment but has broadened its market in recent years. It doesn't clog up or "wetten" the leathers the way oils such as neatsfoot or mink oil do. With a Lexol treatment, you end up regaining the flexibility of the leather while still keeping it breathable. Used long enough, the oils of any sort (or silicones for that matter) eventually soak in and make the leather heavy and soggy. This can accelerate in high wear areas or where the original sealing finish wears off exposing the more naked leather underneath. No experience with threads degenerating, but I suppose that is possible. (solution, dress better ... get rid of the cheap threads) A routine maintenance of periodic cleaning, then light Lexol is probably as good as you can do for your skins. If you get scrapes and need to darken it to cover, then a leather die is probably better than using a wax polish to cover the scrapes. Other conditioners that are not petroleum based are probably ok as well. Anything with a lanolin base (a natural product from sheep's wool) should work. Bill Juhl K100RT Sacramento CA From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 5 00:19:17 1997 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:56:58 -0600 (MDT) From: D&J To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Cc: steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com, Bill Juhl Subject: BMW: re: Lexol for Leather Reply-To: D&J If you guys are really serious about taking care of your leathers and not just fucking around, screw Lexol. Check out Langlitz Leather Dressing from Langlitz Leathers, 503-235-0959. $5.00 for 6 oz, shipping included. And you can get it right away, rather than waiting for eight months like you would have to do if you ordered any of their leathers. I've been using it on my Langlitz leathers for 35 years and can't find anything to complain about. Dick Taylor - Classy Guy hetchinsNoSpam@NoSpammontana.com Live and lean. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 5 22:33:48 1997 X-Ms-Tnef-Correlator: From: Paul Meredith To: "'Mick Furchert'" Cc: "'IBMWR'" Subject: BMW: RE: Wet Weather gloves Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:53:01 -0400 Reply-To: Paul Meredith This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC71FA.D91DC1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mick, I stumbled across my "current" set of gloves. (they were a give-away) but have turned out to be the best set I could have asked for. Gortex makes a "fleece" fabric (kind of like Polartec, but called "windstopper") that they turned into gloves, soft, fuzzy with leather palms. They have been very "wind and rain proof" I can feel at slight wind leakage at speeds above 70mph. When I'm out in 20-35 weather, I add a set of glove liners. Works like a champ. I even snowmobile with them when the temps are above 10F. In the rain, they keep me dry for a few hours (I'd bet they would hold if I kept the speed down). If they soak thru, they dry out very nicely as the Gortex allows your hand warmth to evaporate the water. They "breathe" which allows me to ride with them in warm weather also. I have a selfish motive in providing all this detail. I have not been able to find a replacement pair (I haven't called Gortex yet). If you find them, let me know. I believe they had a list price of $40US. I ordered a pair of Gortex gloves from LL Bean, but they aren't the same. I have not tried the LL Bean gloves under "motorcycling conditions" yet, maybe this fall. If someone runs across these gloves, let me know... Tia Paul Paul Meredith K-1, R11RT, MOA,RA,OH,AMA Life, Merrimack, New Hampshire meredithNoSpam@NoSpammail.dec.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC71FA.D91DC1E0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgYBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcGAAUAFQA1AAEABAAuAQEggAMADgAAAM0HBgAF ABUANQAEAAQAMQEBCYABACEAAAA4QzZCNThBMEMyREREMDExQjI5MjAwMDBGODIyM0JDMgAPBwEN gAQAAgAAAAEAAQABBIABABcAAABSRTogV2V0IFdlYXRoZXIgZ2xvdmVzAMEHAQOQBgDMBwAAGgAA AAMAJgABAAAAHgBwAAEAAAATAAAAV2V0IFdlYXRoZXIgZ2xvdmVzAAACAXEAAQAAABsAAAABvHIZ h3ygWGuB3cIR0LKSAAD4IjvCAABsmiEAAwAuAAAAAAADAAYQeGFm6AMABxAaBAAAHgAIEAEAAABl AAAATUlDSyxJU1RVTUJMRURBQ1JPU1NNWSJDVVJSRU5UIlNFVE9GR0xPVkVTKFRIRVlXRVJFQUdJ VkUtQVdBWSlCVVRIQVZFVFVSTkVET1VUVE9CRVRIRUJFU1RTRVRJQ09VTERIQQAAAAADABAQAAAA AAMAERAAAAAAAgEJEAEAAADGBAAAwgQAADUHAABMWkZ1Sr+PG/8ACgEPAhUCpAPkBesCgwBQEwNU AgBjaArAc2V07jIGAAbDAoMyA8YHEwKDRjMDxQIAcHJxEiJzaHRlbQKDNA9/EIc1FRQ8QwnwdAhw eSBHoG90aGljAoM2Ew0ufQqACM8J2TsbbzI1HjUCgAqBDbELYG5nMbwwMxQgCwoS8gwBYwBAwiAK i2xpMzYN8B8/MwXQGSBrLAqFCoVJINUVMHUG0GwJgCAA0ANg5QQRbRjAImMIcBtwAjAGIiPgEgAg b2YgZ0UbAHYHkC4gKBkAZbUYwHcEkGUkcCYgaSZgAC1hd2F5KSBirnUFQBHAJmAgGJFuJFHzCGAF QHRvKCAooSbQKZHPFTAlsyPQBaB1bCRgKHOYYXNrJFECEHIuIvzTGOAAIGV4JOBhK5AEIE0nYCIe QAngY2UloGbrAaAFEGMmoGsLgCkRJhBzISArkCBQBvAKwBVAY9osKCNjB0AkQiID8C8Q0RUwb3Bw BJAiKBAZAP5hKVEm0ijFC4ApcSY0MEAKcyYAdDBAZnV6eu0m8WkZAC9gZTIgJtAFwOkKsGxtJoFU JtIocymgfQnwICZgGLExEyRwLxFyfwtxNWADYCYAJaAqoQORZpcJ4AMgMiFzISBnaAVA4zczNPFr YWcnQSpBMaAPCYAtoQbgKJE3MG1wGmgmkFcm0AOgSSdtxykjN+EB0C0zNScBNRPzMEAj0GFkJGEl uy9hKPD3EeA78QWwawQgL3MnYBGxNzvALAYj0GUmYAOgc270b3cEYGIDECdANKMmwd08gHc8IinS FUFwLaEnMus7Ux6QRiaQSUNkN8IwQLMmwyuQZXAk4CdAZBixbyvRJ1E44AfgaAhhBCAo7zxgJGAp oDI1dyrUBvAy8f8mECPQK5AFMSnSOtNGoEIA/G4pRPEmECbDM+AtcCnB/HJ1RcVGsikyNtMDAC4w /mwYwCthKcMs9TCxQgAEIJ55CGEoYS8RJ+BybUKy8ymAQZBhcAWwMiAptCfg9xVAK/A11CIukDUD JaBDMP8ZIDTQTuVGgSlxBRANsEKJ/zfhT/I9Zk7RM+AsBiNYKyS5JbFsZgQANNAEYHQnkds80jgR dlQQC4BnTtIpwe8EAEagEgALcGxE8ShkQfD/BUA2gwGgQmEpcVfwN1I3sL9GUAtgLjAHgAIwNWFp BcCzR/AoY24nMIcs9XkSAP9LBE9RXARC4jBAJEAFQEaB/mtB8VpyKaAhIEGRMkQRwD8+QiEgKjEU wE2RJfIkNPgwVVMmkCL+BbAEgSRSP100JgEs9SY0K8ADYSBM+EwgQjUARbEoMibDRCHXXgJKI0DA ZVp7dAiBYCPbZ1ZmlnUvEDVBIlhBBbD4Y3ljP1FZYAWgLxA0sHppAiBzJaBfITBAAMB5/ymjWeEu cDDALA1LMTPgB4D/AiBFYWvQLaEklCbBEfAzVy9gqnMAIvwHYGEKhVBh7yrgCo8LkRXCMRmQOBEw ET8FQHSyBdBlQjSxdPVLLYIxMEBSMTFSVDBAIE1PQSxSeUBPSLAsQU1BZ1AGkGUwQN93YgUQAMEi 0AezSEDBWBDdXWBldPUHgHeUQADAWlH1BYEuBaBtdPcLZBdydnkLdPUakQCAQAAAQAA5AMO4mF0c crwBAwDxPwkEAAADADYAAAAAAAIBRwABAAAANgAAAGM9VVM7YT0gO3A9RGlnaXRhbDtsPUNTUy1B TUFaS08yQUMtOTcwNjA2MDE1MzAxWi02MzExAAAAAgH5PwEAAABOAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkI ACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC9PPURJR0lUQUwvT1U9U0JVQU1BRU5HL0NOPVJFQ0lQSUVOVFMvQ049TUVS RURJVEgAAAAeAPg/AQAAAA4AAABQYXVsIE1lcmVkaXRoAAAAAgH7PwEAAABOAAAAAAAAANynQMjA QhAatLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC9PPURJR0lUQUwvT1U9U0JVQU1BRU5HL0NOPVJFQ0lQSUVOVFMv Q049TUVSRURJVEgAAAAeAPo/AQAAAA4AAABQYXVsIE1lcmVkaXRoAAAAQAAHMFK/lF8acrwBQAAI MDZWgV8ccrwBAwANNP0/AAACARQ0AQAAABAAAABUlKHAKX8QG6WHCAArKiUXHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAA UkU6IAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAgF/AAEAAABMAAAAPGM9VVMlYT1fJXA9RGlnaXRhbCVs PUNTUy1BTUFaS08yQUMtOTcwNjA2MDE1MzAxWi02MzExQGRhc2h1YjEuZGFzLmRlYy5jb20+AL9G ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC71FA.D91DC1E0-- From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jun 6 03:39:41 1997 Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:16:28 +0200 From: Bob DeHaney To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Goretex Windstopper Gloves Reply-To: Bob DeHaney Look under cross country skiing,downhill skiing,hiking. That's where you find them. Bob in Munich '94K1100RS From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jun 7 04:03:45 1997 From: "scotsfd" To: Subject: BMW: Re:Wet weather gloves Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:20:41 -0400 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "scotsfd" > > Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 11:05:52 -0700 > From: Mick Furchert > Subject: BMW: Wet Weather gloves > > Can a few Preses, give me some info on where I can get a good set of > 'Wet weather/cold' riding gloves. > Just get some Belstaff overgloves mate. Put them on over the top of your favourite gloves, just when it rains. They are not full gloves but they are very effective. Probably Drizabone has something similar too. Waxed cotton is hard to beat in the wet! cheers Steve Cotsford scotsfdNoSpam@NoSpamconterra.com 81 R100RS 65 R27 Tuned pipes make the sweetest music! From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jun 7 05:30:37 1997 From: Tom Nash To: "'bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com'" , "'gambetNoSpam@NoSpamterrigal.net.au'" Subject: BMW: Wet Weather gloves Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 01:37:14 -0700 Reply-To: Tom Nash Mick, >Can a few Preses, give me some info on where I can get a good set of = 'Wet weather/cold' riding gloves.< I have no doubt that you, and the rest of this list will die laughing, = but here's how I solved the problem, and it works. It's also very = cheap! Buy an over-sized pair of heavy rubber gloves meant for washing dishes = or cleaning the toilet, and a pair of warm fabric gloves that fit inside = them. I have tried all the different kinds of gloves over the years, = including the Gortex and the "wet suit" style gloves, and in my humble = opinion, nothing works as well. OK - so they look weird, but my hands stay dry and warm. Tom Nash '94 K1100RS San Francisco From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jun 7 07:14:11 1997 From: MRob46NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:59:03 -0400 (EDT) To: psychbNoSpam@NoSpamconcentric.net Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: women's riding suits Reply-To: MRob46NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Barry, You said: >We then spoke to one or two women at Aerostich and ordered a two-piece 'stitch - a 36 short top and a 38 short bottom. Well, the bottom fits. Now I've returned the top for a 38 short top, which is being made. Throughout all this frustration, the people at Rider Wearhouse have been most pleasant to deal with.< I would hope they would be pleasant to deal with. They are trying to sell you a garment they don't make--one that you will pay $$ to make fit. >It is still, however, frustrating to not be able to purchase a many-hundred dollar riding suit for a woman.< And this is why we should support the manufacturers who do. If women continue to have men's clothing altered to fit them, companies won't be encouraged to begin making women's clothing. >(BTW, I've been told - but can't swear to its accuracy - that no manufacturer makes non-leather riding suits in women's sizes. Does anyone know to the contrary?)< Vanson Leathers makes a cordura riding suit: the vented Avenger jacket that zips to the Sport Rider pants. The jacket comes in women's sizes 4-20 and the pants come in women's sizes 4-20 (odd and even sizes). Both pants and jacket will accept full armor. Colors are red, blue or black. I have a stock Vanson leather jacket that fits me like it was custom made. Vanson also has a line of perforated leather jackets and pants, for both men and women. Phone is 617-344-5444. BMW, Firstgear, and Vanson make women's clothing. I'm sure there are others. Perhaps you could browse the m/c magazines in your local magazine store or ask your dealer about brands other than BMW--he should have catalogs you can look at. Marilyn Roberts St. Louis '94 K75 Gateway Riders BMWMOA AMA From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 9 11:33:03 1997 From: "Jim Bessette" Original-From: "Jim Bessette" Original-From: "Jim Bessette" Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:21:54 -0600 To: Frank Glamser Subject: Re: BMW: Gerbings Jacket Liner or Vest? Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: "Jim Bessette" On Jun 8, 4:40pm, Frank Glamser wrote: > After considering the helpful input of many prezzes, I'm ready to go > electric. I've narrowed the decision to the Gerbings thin jacket liner and > quilted vest with collar, although contrary advice is welcome. My > overriding consideration was packability. I rarely ride for extended > periods below 40 or 50 degrees. I'm looking for standby heat when > unanticipated weather strikes or when travelling briefly at altitude. The > options I've mentioned should take up about the same space, one has > sleeves the other quilting. What I'm interested in is the net advantage in > warmth under a windproof jacket of the sleeve heat of the jacket vs the > quilted torso of the vest. If it's a toss-up, the vest is cheaper. TIA. Frank, I've got the quilted jacket liner and love it. I've gone the vest route, but found if I really needed the vest, I really needed the sleeves too. The quilted version is NOT easily packable. It's quite bulky (as you probably know). My suggestion would be to go with the non-quilted jacket liner (WITH SLEEVES). If you're in the situation that you NEED the electrics, you've probably already got some other clothing that you can put OVER the jacket liner as insulation (i.e. you shouldn't need the quilting of the vest). -- Jim Bessette | Experiencing | First BMW '89 K100RS/ABS bessetteNoSpam@NoSpamdrmail.dr.lucent.com | BMW evolution | Second BMW '93 R100GS/PD Westminster, CO. USA | in reverse | Third BMW '68 R50/2 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 9 12:11:42 1997 From: bkeaheyNoSpam@NoSpamuswest.com To: "Jim Bessette" , Frank Glamser , bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:39:24 MDT Subject: Re: BMW: Gerbings Jacket Liner or Vest? Reply-To: bkeaheyNoSpam@NoSpamuswest.com Addressed to: "Jim Bessette" Frank Glamser bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com ** Reply to note from "Jim Bessette" Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:21:54 -0600 > On Jun 8, 4:40pm, Frank Glamser wrote: > > > After considering the helpful input of many prezzes, I'm ready to go > > electric. I've narrowed the decision to the Gerbings thin jacket liner and > > quilted vest with collar, although contrary advice is welcome. My > > overriding consideration was packability. I rarely ride for extended > > periods below 40 or 50 degrees. I'm looking for standby heat when > > unanticipated weather strikes or when travelling briefly at altitude. The > > options I've mentioned should take up about the same space, one has > > sleeves the other quilting. What I'm interested in is the net advantage in > > warmth under a windproof jacket of the sleeve heat of the jacket vs the > > quilted torso of the vest. If it's a toss-up, the vest is cheaper. TIA. Here's just what you need. New Age electric vest: basic, thin, lightweight, packable supplemental heat for the temp range you mention. When I bought mine, it was $109.95 CDN, which was about $82 US. Comes with trailer-light type connectors and and in-line fuse. I replaced them with Widder type connectors and a BMW accessory plug. It doesn't get hot enough to really need a thermostat. Here's the source info: > Bruce, > Yup, we have the New Age electric vests. Like the person who > forwarded the message, I will NOT ride without mine. We can certainly send > you one. Just call Rupe at (604)266-7736 with your size and VISA or > MasterCard Number and it will be on it's way. The price is $99.95 CDN and > if you put it on a charge card we can let someone else worry about exchnge > rates. If you have a BMW, get the accessory plug and connect it to the vest > so you can just plug in. I also put an on/off switch on mine (easy to do) > and some others have put rheostat-type switches on theirs. Works great!! >Brian Dawson > Shail's Motorcycles Ltd. Bruce G. Keahey, U S WEST Advanced Technologies, Boulder, CO "Never anger a dragon, for you are crunchy and go well with Brie." From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 9 14:39:36 1997 From: Hosmann95NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:13:24 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Hot weather riding gear... Reply-To: Hosmann95NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Hi all. A while back, I wrote in mentioning that I had heard about a product through a friend which promised to make riding in hot weather more comfortable. I hadn't seen the product at that point, yet I received a number of inquiries via e-mail. Since then, I've seen and purchased one. I'm a big fan of products that actually work and wanted to let you all know about this. The product is a nylon mesh vest which contains vertical strips of cloth similar to the "cool collars," which absorb water in some kind of silica gel. The vest has two pairs of these strips on the front, and two pairs on the back. Apparently, this company got their start making these vests in high-visibility orange for CalTrans crews to use at work. They now make them in more subdued colors for people with more conservative tastes. I saw them in solid black and black mesh with blue trim and cool strips. They have elastic on the sides and two strips of velcro on the front for closure. I purchased the vest through Biker's Dream in Sacramento. Before leaving, Jim, the owner, and I soaked the vest in water for about 20 minutes. The strips swelled with water, becoming tubes about 1/2 inch in diameter. I put the vest on under my Firstgear leather jacket with the vents open. The first pair of tubes lined up well with the front vents, and the second pair ran along the sides of my chest, under my armpits. It was about 92 degrees outside. I immediately felt more comfortable. It felt as if my shirt was wet, but all the water was contained in the gel and the inside of my jacket stayed dry. I believe a 20-minute soak should be enough to keep the vest hydrated for an entire day. If it dries out, you can simply soak it in a sink of water for a few minutes to "recharge." Jim mentioned that he has sold a number of these through word-of-mouth to police here in Sacramento to wear under their body armor. It fits tightly enough to work this way. I paid about $35 for the vest, and honestly believe it will make riding much more comfortable during our long hot summers here in Northern CA. I have no connection to this company or to Biker's Dream, I'm just satisfied with this product. If anyone would like to buy one, e-mail me and I'll forward the info to Jim. He was running out of the vests when I saw him on Saturday (he only had XL sized left, I think). He said he can get more if needed. Steve Sacramento From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 9 17:16:21 1997 Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 15:52:42 -0500 From: ken barnett To: Frank Glamser Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Gerbings Jacket Liner or Vest? Reply-To: ken barnett Frank Glamser wrote: > > After considering the helpful input of many prezzes, I'm ready to go > electric. I've narrowed the decision to the Gerbings thin jacket liner and > quilted vest with collar, although contrary advice is welcome. My > overriding consideration was packability. I rarely ride for extended > periods below 40 or 50 degrees. I'm looking for standby heat when > unanticipated weather strikes or when travelling briefly at altitude. The > options I've mentioned should take up about the same space, one has > sleeves the other quilting. What I'm interested in is the net advantage in > warmth under a windproof jacket of the sleeve heat of the jacket vs the > quilted torso of the vest. If it's a toss-up, the vest is cheaper. TIA. > > Frank Glamser > Hattiesburg, Mississippi > 92K75RT Frank... i've owned an Eclipse vest, now i have a Gerbings jacket liner. for staying warm...THERE IS NO COMPARISON....the jacket liner is the way to go. but....if it's packability you want, look into the vest from Rider Warehouse (aerostitch people) their vest is made out of Polar- fleece and packs into its own pocket. ken barnett plano,texas R1100RT 900 sp From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 9 18:37:12 1997 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:15:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jerome Cook To: "Maureen O'Farrell" Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: women's riding gear Reply-To: Jerome Cook I have spoken to the Gerbings folks several times in the last two weeks. they seem more than willing to do almost anything to make your riding suit what you want it to be. If looks are important only you can decide if the gerbings is for you. I like the way their suits look. They currently have 200, 500, 1000 denier fabric. I think I will order mine with the 500. The color catalogs are a bit misleading. Mine said they have 1350 denier cordura but that is for the armor patches. If you can find out where their reps are attending rallys try to get there and see what the suits look like. HAve the Rep measure you and you have a pretty good shot at getting a good fit. I did this at the BMWBMW rally in Md. Custom work seems to agree with them. I want extra pockets and a few other things to suit me. They will fix or alter anything you dont like. (i have experience with their jacket liners & pants liners Mu guess is they can custom make you a quality suit cheaper than Aerostitch plus you get electric included. good luck jerry On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Maureen O'Farrell wrote: > > I can't find the original post, so I don't quite know who to send this info > to...so, sorry to waste the bandwidth :) > > I've found that the answer is, there is no simple answer. Off-the-rack gear > really varies. > > I bought a small Darien suit, which fit horribly- but I tried a size 34 2 > pc roadcrafter that fits great w/ no alterations. Recently, I decided to > get a decent set of leathers, and wanted a set of HG V Pilots. I got lucky > and found a pair of sz 28 Men's pants in the MOA newsletter, and they fit > great. I can't figure how they could ever fit a guy! I then ordered a new V > Pilot women's jacket to match, and it ended up making me look like a line > backer! Go figure... > > I have given up on the jacket and gone back to an old Vetter jacket, that > at least fits OK. > > One idea for Cordura/ Aerostitch-like gear, may be Gerbing's. When I > ordered my electric jacket liner, they custom-made the whole thing > according to my measurements, and had it on my door in three days! I know > they are currently making cordura suits, perhaps they will do custom > sizing. > > As I recall, the FemmeGear stuff was a tad on the Harley-esque side, but I > applaud the concept. > > Good luck! > > -Maureen > > > > Maureen O'Farrell Walt Sizemore > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > >Pearl 1994 R1100RSA >Black 1995 R1100RSLA > >White 1988 R100GS > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jun 10 10:09:29 1997 From: WARUSZEWSKNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:47:52 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Re:The Electric Prezzzident Reply-To: WARUSZEWSKNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Seems to me that I ran across a First Gear jacket liner that was sent to Gerbing by it's owner to have electric heat wired in. Cost was about the same as buying a full new electric jacket liner but you end up with your own custom jacket. This may be a good time of year to part with your liner for awhile, I am sure it takes awhile to get it completed. (I have not had this done myself and I am not soliciting business for anyone, just spreading a rumour while I am stuck here in the office when I should be out riding). VIC WARUSZEWSKI, SoD # 21 VI #1 MOA 85K100RS BMW Touring Club of Detroit #1 Motor City Beemers Team K-Basa http://pages.prodigy.com/bmwtcd - The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jun 10 14:44:36 1997 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:12:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Jerome Cook To: WARUSZEWSKNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: electric clothing Reply-To: Jerome Cook I have spoken to several riders who had their existing clothing modified by gerbings. I didnt ask what they spent for the re-work. The issue to them was they liked the things they had and decided to electrify them. Gloves were a popular item to have converted. All the riders seemed to be pleased with the re-working to add electrics. If the cost to convert an existing liner to electrics was too close to $180 i would just get the gerbings, but fit could be an important issue. Good luck jerry On Tue, 10 Jun 1997 WARUSZEWSKNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: > > Seems to me that I ran across a First Gear jacket liner that was sent to > Gerbing by it's owner to have electric heat wired in. Cost was about the same > as buying a full new electric jacket liner but you end up with your own > custom jacket. > This may be a good time of year to part with your liner for awhile, I am sure > it takes awhile to get it completed. > (I have not had this done myself and I am not soliciting business for anyone, > just spreading a rumour while I am stuck here in the office when I should be > out riding). > > VIC WARUSZEWSKI, SoD # 21 VI #1 MOA 85K100RS > BMW Touring Club of Detroit #1 Motor City Beemers > Team K-Basa http://pages.prodigy.com/bmwtcd > - The generation of random numbers is too important > to be left to chance. > From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 12 03:11:48 1997 To: karlNoSpam@NoSpamwizvax.net Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 02:42:57 -0400 Subject: BMW: overpants X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,5-8,10-11,13 From: myleslewisNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Myles B Lewis) Reply-To: myleslewisNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Myles B Lewis) Karl, For the ultimate in protection and no goretex, try Motoport's Ultra II Trek Cordura pants. I have the 2piece suit and only downfall I see is no goretex. All them at 1-800???????? Can't find the catalog. Check with 800 directory assistance. They are in CA and often have closeouts. Normal price is around $300 if I remember correctly. Myles ************************************************************ Myles B. Lewis---Bradenton, Florida, USA---Riding OL' Yeller--- A 1978 BMW R100/7-black & yellow, converted to a home made RT or RC or R?? IBMWR---BMWMOA #71292---BMWRA #20505---AMA #443756---Florida SunBeemers You can lead a horse to water, but if you can get it to roll over & bark, you really have something! From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 12 05:08:06 1997 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:46:08 -0700 To: CMcdougalNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: David Rivers Subject: Re: BMW: Which Aerostich?????? Cc: IBMWR list Reply-To: David Rivers At 7:36 PM -0700 6/11/97, CMcdougalNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: >Well, everyone says that I should get an aerostich. Everyone.....so...which >one? I ride to work every day, (avery short commute) and I ride on the >weekend and want to start some long distance in a short timeframe touring. >Specifically, this summer I will ride my R75/6 from San Antonio, TX to >Vermont and back.I plan to do a lot of miles per day. I also plan to start >doing more rides around the southwest,(big bend, New Mexico, etc) I am >putting the Windjammer back on and I need to know which suit to by. The one >piece looks like the best for the long trips, but how about for around town >behind a fairning in San Antonio in the summer time. Right now I wear an >unlined leather jacket and jeans. > Should I get the Roadcrafter twopiece? It seems more versatile. Will I be >able to wear it in the summer time in TX, or will it be ridiculously hot? Is >there another option besides a stich? >Thanks everyone in advance >Charlie Mac Hi Charlie, I was in the exact quandry as you are now late last year after I became the happy owner of a new R11RT. I ended up buying the standard Darrien jacket and pants from Rider's Wearhouse. The reason is because I wanted the most range of comfort and maximum rain protection. The zipper on the Roadcrafter 1 or 2 piece is reputed to leak after sustained soakage. Particularly in the crotch. The Boys don't like to be soaked. The Darien lacks the Roadcrafter's ballistic patches at the shoulders, elbows to wrists and knees to ankle areas. This makes the Roadcrafter stiffer, thicker in those spots and thus warmer and most importantly, IMHO, more crashworthy. However, the Darien is cooler in the heat, has a "softer hand" and is much less stiff and therefore more comfortable. I think the 1 or 2 piece Roadcrafter looks cooler in a moto kind of way then the Darien but I wouldn't use the RC to snow board or any other use then riding street motorcycles. I think the Darrien would be much better on dual sport rides then the RC and I think it is marketed as such by Rider's Wearhouse. President Robert Higdon noted that he used a Darien outfit on his Summer '96(?) tour ride report on a R80G/S for many thousands of miles. (Bob's excellent reports are linked to the Iron Butt home page.) Doug Ruth wears a 2 piece RC as he tours South America on a G/S. Doug has reported thet he removes the bottoms when it gets too hot. (Doug's excellent reports are showing up on the GS list and there are 2 somewhat out of date web pages with his story as well.) At the few Beemer gatherings I've attended I have seen many 1 piece 'stiches come off the rider as soon as they park and they stay off untill the next ride. With 2 piece 'stiches people seem to wear one or the other piece most of the time, at least when it is a bit cool out. The "hard to fit" people almost universally have 2 piece Roadcrafters or Darriens. Many of the 1 piece outfits arrive on skinny people. I have even seen some people wearing Darien pants and RC jackets. If I was just commuting I would get a 1 piece RC and be happy. If I was commuting mostly and with an occasional moderate tour thrown in I would get a 2 pice RC and be happy. Since I want to do some serious long distance combat tours I got the Darrien and I am happy. For really hot days like in San Antonio, Rider's Wearhouse makes a Darien "lite" you might want to look into. Which ever you get, I recommend you order it large enough to layer properly for the colder months and the optional spine pad and hip pads. I wish you the best in your search for the perfect moto clothes. Most excellent regards, David Rivers, Moraga, CA R1100RTL "Das Momo" AMA, MOA, CCBR, IAFF From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 12 08:25:42 1997 From: "Pat Roddy" To: , Subject: BMW: Re: Which AeroStich?????? Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:21:16 -0400 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Pat Roddy" Charlie Mac: I opted for the 2 piece. It is versatile in that you can, in ungodly hot weather, remove the pants yet still wear the jacket. At a rally that is cursed with rain, you are able to wear the jacket as a raincoat (if you forgot your poncho ;-). The 2 piece seems to have more room inside. You can also, for a paltry 50 bux or so, buy a pants 'extender' that connects to the pants with a zipper and makes the pants like overalls, with shoulder straps. This way, you can remove the jacket if desired, like when eating, and leave the 'bib overalls' on. I have heard, but have not verified, that if you need a little more length, there is now an "expander" you can purchase which adds 2 inches or so of length. You will prolly get a lot of responses for the one piece. They are fine too, but for me, at least, the 2 piece made the most sense. (I have known 3 folks who had one pieces but traded them in for 2 piece suits). Curiously, I have never seen anyone doing the opposite. YMMV. Good luck. Whatever you choose, you will have the nicest, all around riding suit on the planet. Yes, you will get hot in TX with your 'Stich, especially when stopped. When moving, however, open your vents. That will create a flow through effect that will help you maintain your cool ;-) pr pr in Buford, GA USA 93K11LT & 95R100GS SoD16, Boof & K-Whiner From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 12 09:03:01 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: arctic.st.usm.edu: fglamser owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:43:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Glamser To: Karl Juul Cc: BMW Mailing List Subject: Re: BMW: Nylon (Cordura) Pants???? Reply-To: Frank Glamser Hi Karl, I use the Motoport Ultra II cordura for just those reasons. The downside is they are bulky and ugly. Frank Glamser Hattiesburg, Mississippi '92 K75RT BMW RoM On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Karl Juul wrote: > > I'm looking for a pair of nylon "over-pants" I can wear over my dress > slacks for warm weather commuting. > > I normally wear First Gear Nevada Touring Pants for that purpose, but they > are not > comfortable in hot weather. > > What I'm looking for are pants without a waterproof coating or Goretex > lining, something that is purposely not windproof.... > > Any ideas? Maybe something intended for a sport other than motorcycling? > > Thanks. > > -Karl. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++ karlNoSpam@NoSpamwizvax.net ++++++++++++++++++++++ > Karl Juul **someplace in upstate New York** KB2XG > 1994 Honda VFR750F > 1993 BMW K75S-Gone, but not forgotten... > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 12 14:17:27 1997 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:41:27 +0000 From: Joseph Luther To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Re: bmw- Nylon (Cordura) Pants???? Reply-To: Joseph Luther On Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:10:21 -0400, Karl Juul" wrote: > What I'm looking for are pants without a waterproof coating or Goretex > lining, something that is purposely not windproof.... > > Any ideas? Maybe something intended for a sport other than motorcycling? Karl, I've used Cordura hunting pants for years for riding. I have 3 versions: 1. Just plain Cordura 2. Cordura with Gore-Tex lining 3. Cordura with Gore-Tex and Thinsulite. I get these from Cabela's Hunting, Fishing and Outdoor Gear. Their mail-order number is 1-800-237-4444. These are field pants sold for bird hunting. I wear these because they look just like regular pants - pockets, belt loops, etc.. I have the tan colored version, but they come in other colors as well. Aside from the obvious aesthetic advantage, the pants have good abrasion resistence - and the gore-text and thinsulite versions have proven themselves in the worst of weather. There need not be that awkward, falling over, time of struggling into or out of your raingear or chaps or riding suit - just wear these pants all the time you're out & about on your bike. Joe Luther Only in Nebraska K1100LT - "EXIT" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 12 15:21:00 1997 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:48:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Jerome Cook To: Leon Droby Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Which Aerostich?????? Reply-To: Jerome Cook Aerostitch is a proven solution and i have not met anyone who is really unhappy with their suit. There are other solutions Motoport makes an interesting suit 1000 denier also the Canyon I like the Hein gericke Espediton suit and pants I am leaning toward the Gerbings riding suit. I narrowed my choices to gerbings and aerostitch because they are both washable in a machine. some suits do not recimment that. It was a big plus considering summer sweaty riding. I also didnt want th have to thing too much and three choices would be past my brain capacity Good shopping Jerry From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jun 15 10:30:34 1997 From: MMCornettNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:15:21 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Darien Questions Answered Reply-To: MMCornettNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com In a message dated 97-06-15 09:25:39 EDT, Bill Harrison writes: << I am the proud owner of an Aerostich Darien jacket and pants. They arrived in the mail last week and I am very impressed with the design and construction. However, I have a concern about the fit of the Darien. It is quite big and loose fitting. >> Bill, Don't worry about the size. It DOESN'T flap in the wind. I'm 6'2" (44/46) and I have an extra large. The extra room keeps it from getting hot in summer and allows you to insulate in winter. I got mine last 'August and have put about 40,000 miles on it. As Don Graling said, "Best motorcycling money I ever spent." Congratulations, Downtown (Chicago) Mike, Texan-in-Exile # 1 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jun 20 19:00:57 1997 From: Dan Simoes Subject: BMW: apparel - start of a faq To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamfacteur.std.com (bmwmc) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: Dan Simoes I've been compiling info for some time, and eventually I will have enough to put into a FAQ. I need a bit more feedback. So far, here are my (current) options: - TourMaster Cortech jacket: $189 (MAW) Looks good, 500/1000d cordura, has vents, waterproof via coating, zip out Thinsulate liner. Cheap. Question: anyone have this, and is it too hot for NY summer weather? It seems to be that the coated jackets breathe less. - MotoPort UltraII jacket/pants: $329+$199 (clearance price for blue) Overall my top choice, but these together are $528. Add the Goretex liners ($178) and you are up to $706, not quite Aerostich pricing, but close. This jacket would breathe better, has better armor than the Cortech, but as I said, costs more $$$. Finally, if anyone has a good BMW/Stich suit in a 42 reg, for about $300-400 let me know. I'm looking for cordura (abrasion resistence) or kevlar, removable goretex liner (warmth and waterproofing), vents, and good armor. Yah, I know, it's called a Darien. I don't have that kind of $ and there is nothing my size on their clearance sheet. On a positive note, I should have my painted bike parts tomorrow. Assembly day is next Thurs, which means Friday may be riding day... | Dan | -- Dan Simoes dansNoSpam@NoSpamans.net ANS Communications http://coimbra.ans.net/dans.html 100 Clearbrook Road (914) 789-5378 (voice) Elmsford, NY 10523 (914) 789-5310 (fax) From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jun 21 12:38:59 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: arctic.st.usm.edu: fglamser owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:27:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Glamser To: Dan Simoes cc: bmwmc Subject: Re: BMW: apparel - start of a faq Reply-To: Frank Glamser Hi Dan, I have a Cortech jacket and the Motoport Ultra II pants. The jacket is great for cold and/or wet weather and can be worn to the mid 70's. Frank Glamser Hattiesburg, Mississippi '92 K75RT BMW RoM On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Dan Simoes wrote: > > I've been compiling info for some time, and eventually I will > have enough to put into a FAQ. I need a bit more feedback. > > So far, here are my (current) options: > > - TourMaster Cortech jacket: $189 (MAW) > Looks good, 500/1000d cordura, has vents, waterproof via coating, > zip out Thinsulate liner. Cheap. > > Question: anyone have this, and is it too hot for NY summer weather? > It seems to be that the coated jackets breathe less. > > - MotoPort UltraII jacket/pants: $329+$199 (clearance price for blue) > Overall my top choice, but these together are $528. Add the > Goretex liners ($178) and you are up to $706, not quite Aerostich > pricing, but close. This jacket would breathe better, has better > armor than the Cortech, but as I said, costs more $$$. > > Finally, if anyone has a good BMW/Stich suit in a 42 reg, for about $300-400 > let me know. I'm looking for cordura (abrasion resistence) or kevlar, > removable goretex liner (warmth and waterproofing), vents, and good armor. > Yah, I know, it's called a Darien. I don't have that kind of $ and > there is nothing my size on their clearance sheet. > > On a positive note, I should have my painted bike parts tomorrow. > Assembly day is next Thurs, which means Friday may be riding day... > > | Dan | > -- > Dan Simoes dansNoSpam@NoSpamans.net > ANS Communications http://coimbra.ans.net/dans.html > 100 Clearbrook Road (914) 789-5378 (voice) > Elmsford, NY 10523 (914) 789-5310 (fax) > From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 23 13:57:12 1997 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:31 -0700 (MST) Subject: BMW: Recommendation - Gloves When my black, single-wei From: Brian Skow To: IBMWR Cc: Ron Row Reply-To: Brian Skow Recommendation - Gloves When my black, single-weight leather Fieldsheer gloves of many years disentigrated last year, I searched in vain for weeks for a replacement. Then, on a trip to Durango, Colorado, I happened into a tack (horse and related supply) store. There, I noticed a pair of black, single weight leather Roper gloves. They've worked out great! Since then, I've put more thought to the similarities between riding a horse and riding a motorcycle (iron horse). There are quite a few! Gloves and boots certainly cross over fairly well. So, I've periodically stopped in tack stores, looking for interesting gear. Recently, I came across SSG gloves in an English riding store. The gloves have a suede, grippy palm and a webbed, nylon top with a velcroed wrist. Washable, and ventilated for the warm weather. I highly recommend these gloves for the non-Kevlar, non-metal stud palm crowd. Brian <><><><><><><><><><> Brian Skow | bskowNoSpam@NoSpamgetnet.com | Phoenix, AZ "This message made possible by an Apple eMate 300." <><><><><><><><><><> From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jun 23 15:08:23 1997 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:56:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Jerome Cook To: drbob27 Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: clothing advice given Reply-To: Jerome Cook I spoke to Gerbings last week. I asked about alternate color choice. They indicated that they could go out and buy a few yards of material in a color choice that I wanted Please call them and ask politely. Maybe it will work for you. Their clothing isnt cheap but less than Aerostitch. I narrowed my choice down to TWO sources Aerostitch & Gerbings. One of the reasons for those two is that the suits are MACHINE WASHABLE & CAN GO IN A DRYER. MAny of the other suits say hand wash only. the gerbings electric liners can also go in the washer The STITCH's have some extra features that are nice BUT Im gonna go for Gerbings I didnt get any replies from current gerbing 's owners but the suit I saw at Square Route looked good, and their service after sale is very good. and I like when vendors come to the rallies. 1-800-646-5916 cheers Jerry Cook On Sat, 21 Jun 1997, drbob27 wrote: > > I'd like a padded Cordura jacket (and mebbe pants) for my wife that > costs less than Aerostitch, All I've seen so far come only in > seriously dark colors. Since she rides most in summer, those seem > like a really bad idea. Anyone know of any? > > bob > From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jun 27 03:22:04 1997 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:47:14 -0500 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Cal Swallow Subject: Re: BMW: Riding New K-1200 (+ glove advice) Reply-To: Cal Swallow At 11:09 P 6/26/97 -0400, you wrote: > >To all.... > > Yes my new K-1200 arrived at Morton's > >---------------------------snip------------------------------------------ > > left me with a sound asleep right hand/wrist,,,now what??? > > > Campground Bob > I've had trouble with my fingers tingling then going to sleep and some pain in my palms. Both on the old RT and the new RS. (yes, worse on RS) I recently bought a pair of gloves that REALLY helped. I can go two hours + without giving my hands a thought. Then a cople of quick flexing exercises and I'm good for at least an hour. They are made by "Olympia" and have a layer of gel in the palm area similar to a gel bicycle seat. Mine are black, unlined, unvented with a velcro strap around the back of the wrist. Short cuff: no gauntlet. They seem well constructed with flat seams in the palm. Are VERY snug while donning but comfortable once you squeeze into them. Fingers are long enough to not put pressure on finger tips but not so long as to interfere with control operation. Kinda feel like a real small rib eye steak between your hand and the grip. Retail $39.95 here. One of the reasos I went to the R1100 over my old K100 was heat. No, I mean HEAT!!! I actually got a large blister on the inside of my right knee on the way to the Durango rally. In town in summer heat it is torture. Like having a car with the heater stuck full-on. I hope you find a fix for it on the new K12. Good luck and please slow down long enough so the rest of us can look at your new scoot!!! Cal Swallow NOTICE: Due to inflation, my $.02 worth is now Quincy, IL now going for $.03. BMWMOA # 65821 1985 K100 LT Grey Primer (don't ask) 1994 R1100 RSL (so I'm fickle) Turkisgrun Met. (fastest color) From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jun 28 10:41:28 1997 Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 08:30:49 -0600 (MDT) From: D&J To: ynotfix Cc: bmwmc Subject: Re: BMW: lap apron Reply-To: D&J > to spike: ok tell me where to get a "lap apron". i've seen them in seattle > but never figgered out where to get one, so come on tell me, tell me. > thanx, tony Langlitz Leathers 2442 S.E. Division Portland, Oregon 97202 USA Ph: 503-235-0959 for catalog Dick Taylor - Classy Guy hetchinsNoSpam@NoSpammontana.com Live and lean. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jun 29 22:31:26 1997 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Court Fisher Subject: BMW: Re: Riding Clothes/Cordura Cc: Graham Rogers Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 02:15:52 +0000 Reply-To: Court Fisher >Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 22:06:30 +0700 (ICT) >From: "Graham K. Rogers" >Subject: BMW: Riding Clothes > >Has anyone on the list heard of the Cordura line by Du Pont? > >One of the (two) bike clothing shops in Bangkok has recently got some of >these in and I am interested. One jacket is a bit heavy for here with a >quilted lining, while the other type (with matching trousers) looks about >right for the temperatures--25 C is a cool day remember. > >Graham >------------------------------ Graham, Du Pont has been manufacturing Cordura for at least 2 decades. It's the industry-standard abrasion-resistant nylon used in Aerostich, BMW, Frank Thomas, and most other non-leather motorcycle clothing lines throughout the world. Comes in various weights or thicknesses, denoted by 'denier', commercially scaled from about 200-1000; 1000 denier being the heaviest (I've seen) in consumer-level application. Now often mixed with other materials like 'ballistic nylon', Kevlar, and Gore-Tex in clothing. Also a standard material in soft luggage, camping gear, etc. If it's 'genuine' Du Pont Cordura, you can't go wrong as a material, depending on how it's used in a specific manufacturer's design/ application--As one example, Aerostich uses 500 denier weight as the base material in its Roadcrafter and Darien suits/jackets. Don't be concerned with the material per se, but the quality of design and manufacture of the specific jackets you're looking at. Haven't looked, but I assume you can find a Du Pont or other website with more technical details. best, Court Fisher Princeton NJ/USA all the usual suspect acronyms court.fisherNoSpam@NoSpamworldnet.att.net From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 3 00:35:31 1997 From: Alessandro.BrunoNoSpam@NoSpamhal.varese.it (Alessandro Bruno) Date: 02 Jul 97 05:35:43 -0800 Subject: BMW: cordura Organization: HAL bbs! To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Alessandro.BrunoNoSpam@NoSpamhal.varese.it (Alessandro Bruno) bm> From: "Graham K. Rogers" bm> Subject: BMW: Riding Clothes bm> Has anyone on the list heard of the Cordura line by Du Pont? Great thing. bm> One of the (two) bike clothing shops in Bangkok has recently got some bm> of these in and I am interested. One jacket is a bit heavy for here bm> with a quilted lining, while the other type (with matching trousers) bm> looks about right for the temperatures--25 C is a cool day remember. Don't go for Dainese cordura/goretex clothes, then. They are wonderful clothes, but the cordura ones are for cool/cold days. I ride in summer with a Dainese Europa (cordura, gore-tex and aluminium liner) when is down to -5C without any problem. Dunno about other brands. /////// Alessandro Bruno NoSpam@NoSpam Varese - prealpi lombarde, Europe \\\\\\\ /////// alessandro.brunoNoSpam@NoSpamhal.varese.it - Fidonet HAL 2:331/105 \\\\\\\ There are too many roads, and so few weekends ! - BMW K 100 RS 16.500 km Flying Happy Brick - www.IBMWR.org - EEP : Enthusiast European President --- Blue Wave v2.12 -- |Fidonet: Alessandro Bruno 2:331/105 |Internet: Alessandro.BrunoNoSpam@NoSpamhal.varese.it | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 3 07:33:06 1997 From: Dan Simoes Subject: BMW: still looking for apparel To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamfacteur.std.com (bmwmc) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: Dan Simoes The Tourmaster Cortech jacket, at $188, is a steal, but it seems it's too hot for summer riding around here. I've got Motoport and Aerostich's clearance lists, and still not much. My pick would probably be the Ultra II Cordura jacket and pants, at $329 and $199 respectively, plus liners. But at over $700 total, I can't see doing this. If you've got a decent combo out there - cordura or kevlar, padding, breathable material with vents, preferable waterproof, in a 42R size or close, let me know. My bike will be ready tomorrow and though I swore that I would not get back on it without new gear, I'm going to anyway. But I do want to find something soon. | Dan | From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 3 20:38:55 1997 From: Robert Bell - COP To: "'BMW'" , "'ArmoredVehNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com'" , "'baconNoSpam@NoSpamtwinight.org'" , Robert Bell - COP , "'ClydeRomeroNoSpam@NoSpamprodigy.net'" , "'Frank_A_Marcellino/245870/CES/EKCNoSpam@NoSpamknotes.kodak.com'" To: "'garyjhNoSpam@NoSpambernstein.com'" , "'Graham.SmithNoSpam@NoSpamenmech.csiro.au'" , "'hp1bmwNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com'" , "'JimBMWK1NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com'" , "'jrocheNoSpam@NoSpammailer.fsu.edu'" , "'K1racerNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com'" To: "'kjvm60aNoSpam@NoSpamprodigy.com'" , "'lsadlerNoSpam@NoSpamNMSU.Edu'" , "'mark.hoganNoSpam@NoSpamtriteal.com'" , "'meredithNoSpam@NoSpamsolvit.ENET.dec.com'" , "'mturczynNoSpam@NoSpampop700.gsfc.nasa.gov'" , "'s_buchhoNoSpam@NoSpamkla.com'" To: "'shortNoSpam@NoSpambose.com'" , "'SOLO900SSNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com'" , "'T.R.Evans-M.D.NoSpam@NoSpamworldnet.att.net'" , "'tzioufasNoSpam@NoSpamVNET.IBM.COM'" , "'WaruszewskNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com'" Subject: BMW: Vanson Sport Rider Perf Jacket Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:57:37 -0400 Reply-To: Robert Bell - COP Last Friday my roomie got me an early birthday present, A Vanson Sport Rider perforated jacket. It is full of holes like the Vanson Breeze, but form fitted to a riding position and has padding in the elbows and shoulders. My roomie is the best roomie in the world - even lets me ride the Ducati whenever I want. Let me digress: In the recent thread about Texas helmet laws one guy said he gets a chuckle out of people who wear leathers in 90 degree weather. I had been wearing a first gear kilamanjaro, which has 5 zipper vents. Hot. But, I also carry a tool kit. I've never had occasion to use the tools on the road, but I still carry them. NoSpam@NoSpam 112K miles on the k1, I've never had occasion to use the leathers (crash). I will still wear a leather jacket through July and August, and I will still carry my tool kit. Anyway, the perf jacket works very well. Stuck in stop and go it gets a little hot but not as bad as the other jacket. At 60 mph, it is noticeably cooler. One really neat thing, is when you have to put on the rain gear. Yesterday I started my ride under cloudy skies but not raining. So it starts raining - you get a little wet and put on the rain gear. Normally the trapped moisture soaks you to the bone. The perforated jacket breathes, allows the moisture to get out and it is not at all unpleasant. Anyway, I really like the new jacket. Grins, Bob From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 5 16:54:47 1997 Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 15:36:28 +0000 From: Andy Fountain To: ben1364NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Cc: IBMWR Subject: Re: BMW: Protective Clothing/Tropics? Reply-To: Andy Fountain Ben1364NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: > > Any advice on materials (leather/synthetic fabrics, etc.), and features will > be appreciated. Most of my riding will be in hot/warm frequently wet (humid) > weather. Protection and comfort are my main concerns rather than style or Ben, I have been riding in leather for the last 11 years and just suffered with the summer heat. Just this summer I bought a First Gear Kiliminjaro jacket that works great. It is made of a cordura fabric they call hypertex. There are several zippered ventalation openings that let air flow thru when it gets hot. The fabric is abrasion resistant and there is body armor in the shoulders, elbows and back for protection. The jacket is much cooler than leather and is also waterproof when all zipped up. In fact I liked it so well that I bought two. I usually wear an X-large but all the dealer had was a XXL. I tried it but it is too big for me so it is for sale if you know anyone that can wear that size. I ended up with the XL and if works fine. I have not had any experience with Aerostich but hear is is good as well. Andy Fountain From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 12 15:51:17 1997 From: james.colburnNoSpam@NoSpampressroom.com Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:41:19 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Smart Kid Reply-To: james.colburnNoSpam@NoSpampressroom.com My 10 year old daughter made the following observation today: "Dad, why do some people on motorcycles wear lots of leather and tiny little helmets? They'd hurt their heads if they fell off. And why do some people wear good helmets with shorts and a t-shirt? They'd get all scraped up if they fell off." "Dad, you keep wearing your good clothes and your good helmet." Jim Colburn (aka james.colburnNoSpam@NoSpampressroom.com) Photo Editor/BMW Rider Washington, D.C. "Everybody Wang Chung Tonight" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 13 01:23:56 1997 From: "drbob27" To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:13:11 +0000 Subject: Re: BMW: Suggested Mail Order Sources Reply-To: "drbob27" > Having heard dire warnings about places like Competition >Accessories, I thought I'd ask the list's consensus on good places >to buy: > > Leather Jackets > Thurlow Leatherworld :-) Of course you're missing something if you don't go to San Diego to get fitted, since all their jackets are custom made, no extra charge. You can ask for the pockets used on one of their standard models, with the collar from another, etc. $400-$700 depending on features and truly a bargain. Incredible quality deerskin (great revenge, eh? :-) and construction. Soft enough for casual wear, although a bit bulky if you get the padding. bob From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 15 17:09:55 1997 From: EsquireTedNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:05:24 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Washing My Stich/Commentary on LL Bean Reply-To: EsquireTedNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Hello All, Well, after, for the first time ever, experiencing massive water intrusion into my 2-piece Aerostich Roadcrafter suit, I decided to finally thoroughly wash and waterproof it. After spending 7 straight hours riding through thick rain and heavy wind, Larry Fears and I stopped at LL Beans so I could run in and buy the bottle of NikWax that I had been thinking of for the previous 6 wet hours. As for Beans, after making the stop at Beans for the last 20 or so years on the way to my Father's place in Maine I am finally cured of the urge to exit at Desert Island road/Freeport. I walked in at 5am approached and asked the Customer Service rep at the center desk where I could find NikWax. He looked at me then said "Don't ever interrupt me again. Besides, what are you doing here, you don't belong here." I stood there for a second trying to fathom what the hell was going on when he again turned away from the person with whom he was chatting and said, "Well, what the hell are you still doing here?" It was then I think I realized he must have thought I was a workman or a Janitor or something (guess holding a motorcycle helmet didn't tip him off.) I told him in one breath that I was from Washington DC, that I had ridden all night, that my Gore-Tex suit was leaking and that I was tired and just wanted to buy some NikWax and get the hell out of there. He quickly told me to go look in the shoe department then turned back around. I told his back that NikWax was for washing Gore-Tex apparel and he turned back around and said "Why don't you try camping?" I wandered down the stairs to camping and immediately found someone who was quite pleasant, knew exactly what I wanted, and went and got it for me while I waited at the register. $12 bucks and a "Have a great trip" later I was again on Rt.1 heading up the coast to Islesboro. The next day I washed and treated the Aerostich. After testing the waterproof qualities of NikWax I can honestly say I am quite impressed. I washed the suite twice using the "NO bleach/scent/etc." Tide powder detergent, ran it through three cycles with no soap whatsoever, then ran it through with the NikWax. Following the directions, I stopped the cycle mid-way through and let it sit for 15 (30 actually) minutes. It came out of the dryer cleaner then it had ever been, and apparently as watertight as it had been at its best (water beads now :) So much for spending 45 minutes with two cans of Scotch-Guard, it is NikWax for me from now on :) ~~~~~~~~~ http://users.aol.com/esquireted/moto.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ted Verrill - EsquireTedNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com - TedVNoSpam@NoSpamFool.com - K1100RS (Zephyr) Georgetown, Washington DC, USA - HOYA JD '94 - Joe's Toadies IBMWR - BMWBMW - BMWMOA - BMWRA - GG#3 - SoD#7 BMWBMW Newsletter Editor, "Between The Spokes" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Visit http://www.bmwbmw.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 15 20:34:53 1997 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:53:57 -0600 From: Steve Aikens Organization: PC Solutions, Inc. To: EsquireTedNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Washing My Stich/Commentary on LL Bean Reply-To: Steve Aikens EsquireTedNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: > >.................... > > As for Beans, after making the stop at Beans for the last 20 or so years on > the way to my Father's place in Maine I am finally cured of the urge to exit > at Desert Island road/Freeport. I walked in at 5am approached and asked the > Customer Service rep at the center desk where I could find NikWax. He looked > at me then said "Don't ever interrupt me again. Besides, what are you doing > here, you don't belong here." I stood there for a second trying to fathom > what the hell was going on when he again turned away from the person with > whom he was chatting and said, "Well, what the hell are you still doing > here?" > > It was then I think I realized he must have thought I was a workman or a > Janitor or something (guess holding a motorcycle helmet didn't tip him off.) Workman, Janitor, or Hooker, this individual should have been reported to his supervisor or the Store Manager immediately. Under no circumstances, is this type behaviour acceptable in ANY business. And no matter how bad I thought I needed a product from them, I would have taken my business elsewhere. NikWax is good stuff, but it's also available from Goldfines' Gold Mine for about the same price (page 15, 10 fl. oz. can, item number 332 $6.00). -- I don't suffer from insanity.....I enjoy every minute of it! Steve Aikens, Clovis, New Mexico steve.aikensNoSpam@NoSpam3lefties.com My BMW URL is http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4323/ Don't drop by very often, it never changes. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 17 20:07:00 1997 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:32:38 -0500 Subject: BMW: NikWax vs Camp Dry on my 'stitch X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5,7-8,12-13,16-17,20-21,24-25,28-29,32-33,35-43 From: garymarshNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Gary McCray) Reply-To: garymarshNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (Gary McCray) Prezzies, My wife & I have had our 2-piece Roadcrafters for 5 or 6 years now. Up until a couple of months ago, we followed the original washing and waterproofing instructions that came with the suits: Wash in laundry detergent (we used Cheer to try to minimize fading) and spray with Camp Dry. After several washings/sprayings, the Camp Dry left a residue on the surface of the material which seemed to attract and hold dirt, which made the suits dingy and stiff. Washing in laundry detergent didn't begin to remove the stuff. I called Goldfine's shop to see what they suggested. The lady on the phone know exactly what I was talking about. She said they use 3M Adhesive Remover to remove the Camp Dry residue. After looking all over the place, I finally found the 3M stuff for $10.00 a quart. It comes in a container like paint thinner and smells like lacquer thinner! After spending a couple of hours cleaning off about 12 sq. inches of one of our suits, my wife decided that she probably won't live long enough to get both suits clean. It was time for drastic measures. She decided to try laundering the suits in Pine-Sol which contains a degreasing agent. After this, the suits didn't look *brand* new, but they were real close, compared to the way they looked before. She then washed the suits in NikWax's non-detergent cleaner (using a whole bottle on each suit). Then she washed each suit in the NikWax waterproofer for Gortex garments. Our suits are now clean and *soft_and_pliable*. We rode in rain for an entire day on the way to Fredericksburg and stayed 100% dry! >From now on - it's NikWax for us! GMc <> << Macarena Red Metallic '97 R1100RT>> <> From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 18 08:13:40 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:03:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Rolt To: Gary McCray Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: NikWax vs Camp Dry on my 'stitch Reply-To: Chris Rolt Just a tip which may or not apply to Aerostich. If the waterproofing on a gore-tex garment isn't as good as it used to be try ironing it with a warm iron. I'm not sure what this does to the scotch-guard(or whatever the manufacturer calls it) but it's been in the care instructions of every garment that I've actually read the care instructions of. They usually also recommend powdered detergents as well. -chris On Thu, 17 Jul 1997, Gary McCray wrote: > > Prezzies, > > My wife & I have had our 2-piece Roadcrafters for 5 or 6 years now. Up > until a couple of months ago, we followed the original washing and > waterproofing instructions that came with the suits: > > Wash in laundry detergent (we used Cheer to try to minimize fading) and > spray with Camp Dry. > > After several washings/sprayings, the Camp Dry left a residue on the > surface of the material which seemed to attract and hold dirt, which made > the suits dingy and stiff. Washing in laundry detergent didn't begin to > remove the stuff. > > I called Goldfine's shop to see what they suggested. The lady on the > phone know exactly what I was talking about. She said they use 3M > Adhesive Remover to remove the Camp Dry residue. > > After looking all over the place, I finally found the 3M stuff for $10.00 > a quart. It comes in a container like paint thinner and smells like > lacquer thinner! > > After spending a couple of hours cleaning off about 12 sq. inches of one > of our suits, my wife decided that she probably won't live long enough to > get both suits clean. It was time for drastic measures. > > She decided to try laundering the suits in Pine-Sol which contains a > degreasing agent. After this, the suits didn't look *brand* new, but they > were real close, compared to the way they looked before. > > She then washed the suits in NikWax's non-detergent cleaner (using a > whole bottle on each suit). Then she washed each suit in the NikWax > waterproofer for Gortex garments. > > Our suits are now clean and *soft_and_pliable*. We rode in rain for an > entire day on the way to Fredericksburg and stayed 100% dry! > > >From now on - it's NikWax for us! > > GMc > > <> > << Macarena Red Metallic '97 R1100RT>> > <> > From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 18 17:42:03 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:34:51 -0700 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Kim Subject: BMW: Clean your aerostitch Reply-To: Kim I read Gary Marsh's comments on using Pine-sol to degrease the aerostitch and decided to try it also. The problem was I didn't have any pine-sol, but I did have some Lysol so I tried it and my 'stitch has never looked cleaner. All of the road freckles over the years located on the front knee ballistics are gone. I thought that would never happen. It looks brand new. Here's the recipe for success. Use the regular wash and maximum water level and two cups of Lysol. Start the washer and after five minutes turn the washer off and let the 'stitch soak for 10 minutes. Then complete the wash cycle. Then wash again with laundry detergent on regular, then wash without soap and then let dry. Use nikwax or spray for the water proofing and then you ready to ride. Kim Rydalch Modesto, CA From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 19 12:26:40 1997 Date: 19 Jul 97 12:13:07 EDT From: Bob DeHaney <100013.413NoSpam@NoSpamCompuServe.COM> To: ibmwmc Subject: BMW: Re: Ironing Goretex Reply-To: Bob DeHaney <100013.413NoSpam@NoSpamCompuServe.COM> The purpose of the ironing is to revive the water repellent coating put on (recommended by Gore) the exterior by the garment's manufacturer. This coating reduces the tendency of the outer garment to get soaked resulting in the Goretex not breathing properly and you also getting cold due to the water evaporation. It has no other effect. One test is to sprinkle the garment before ironing, after ironing, the water beads again. They also recoommend spraying the exterior of the garment with Scotchgard if the water doesn' t bead again after ironing. Bob in Munich '94 K1100RS From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 20 13:38:29 1997 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:30:01 +0000 From: Alex Jomarron To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Cc: geobasNoSpam@NoSpamslip.net Subject: BMW: Re: 1st gear X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by u3.farm.idt.net id NAA08471 Reply-To: Alex Jomarron George, I own a First Gear Mt. Kilimanjaro and HT pants. Tyhe quality is there=20 and I can attest to its "waterproofness." On my way to Seattle on=20 6/17, I stopped at Gina's BMW in IA and bought the coat for cheap (BIG=20 loss leader sale from the IA rally!). The coat vents very well. I rode=20 in 90+=B0 in KS and it wasn't uncomfortable. The Expedition jacket, if I=20 remember correctly, does not provide vents. While in Seattle and=20 Olympic peninsula, it rained daily. The jacket NEVER leaked a drop! As=20 my first piece of weatherproof gear I am very impressed. On the way=20 back from the trip, I bought the pants. I encountered a deluge coming=20 from IA to Chicago. The pants are well designed with a nice flap at=20 the crotch to keep the boys dry. They also have a zipper that runs the=20 complete length of the outer leg. This is handy to put on your boots,=20 and if need be, rain boots. I don't expect that they are as abrasion=20 proof as my H-G V-Pilot leathers, but that is a trade off I'm willing=20 to make. Alex Jomarron POSTSCRIPT: I returned the jacket to Gina's in exchange for an XL. So=20 she has a perfect condition XXL that I'm sure she's willing to deal=20 on. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 23 23:13:32 1997 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:59:28 -0500 From: Ed Poynter To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Hot!!! weather protective clothing Reply-To: Ed Poynter DSS38NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: > > Moved from Seattle back to Texas, and need advice on what works for pants and jacket in the summer in this heat. I'll generally start out wearing a HG TKO jacket and regular jeans, high boots and gloves, but after about 11:30am the jacket just has to come off, or I have to go home. After sundown, jacket is back on. BTW, last Saturday I rode with a Honda group, moonlight ride starting at 9:00pm, and I was the only one of about 40 riders with a leather jacket on. Have looked at the perforated leather pants, Hein Gericke, but they are rather pricey. -- ******************************* Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy" until you can find a rock Ed Poynter Grapevine, TEXAS! edbkrNoSpam@NoSpamFastlane.net http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/edbkr '85K100RS Schwinn Paramount *********************** From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 25 05:53:40 1997 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:40:40 +0100 From: Nick Horley To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Hot!!! weather protective clothing Reply-To: Nick Horley > DSS38NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: > > > > Moved from Seattle back to Texas, and need advice on what works for pants and jacket in the summer in this heat. Never been to Texas - but southern Spain in summer (40 Centigrade and more) was bearable in the BMW Kalahari suit, which was after all designed for desert use. The year before I tried to get there in leathers, and had to turn back. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 25 08:54:49 1997 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:38:45 +0100 From: Nick Horley To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Cc: ibmwr-euroNoSpam@NoSpammojo.org Subject: BMW: Free riding suits from BMW Reply-To: Nick Horley Strange but true. In the UK, BMW clothing carries a one year warranty, just like the bikes. In heavy rain my Kalahari suit has just started leaking in the crotch. Not surprising - it's 11 months old, and the Gore-Tex lining is a teeny bit worn. The dealer is giving me a whole new set of trousers, because the lining, although removable, isn't available as a separate part. Now Gore-Tex, as any fule kno, is not exactly durable. And my new trousers will come with a whole new 12 month warranty. So it looks like I'll be getting them replaced for free every year indefinitely. How's that for a lifetime guarantee? The Kalahari, if you didn't already know, is the most versatile fully armoured riding suit in the world - I use it in all four seasons. And it looks miles better than a rucksack-with-legs Aerostich, if you ask me. Buy one before BMW wakes up to how much their warranty claims are costing! Now, wasn't there a loose stitch somewhere in the jacket....? From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 25 09:35:48 1997 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 97 13:22:57 UT From: "Eric Cleaveland" To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Cc: ibmwr-euroNoSpam@NoSpammojo.org Subject: BMW: RE: Free riding suits from BMW Reply-To: "Eric Cleaveland" and people wonder why it costs us manufacturers $ 17.00 USD / yd to have W.L. Gore laminate to fabrics that we supply.......... ---------- From: ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com on behalf of Nick Horley Sent: Friday, July 25, 1997 8:38 AM To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Cc: ibmwr-euroNoSpam@NoSpammojo.org Subject: BMW: Free riding suits from BMW Strange but true. In the UK, BMW clothing carries a one year warranty, just like the bikes. In heavy rain my Kalahari suit has just started leaking in the crotch. Not surprising - it's 11 months old, and the Gore-Tex lining is a teeny bit worn. The dealer is giving me a whole new set of trousers, because the lining, although removable, isn't available as a separate part. Now Gore-Tex, as any fule kno, is not exactly durable. And my new trousers will come with a whole new 12 month warranty. So it looks like I'll be getting them replaced for free every year indefinitely. How's that for a lifetime guarantee? The Kalahari, if you didn't already know, is the most versatile fully armoured riding suit in the world - I use it in all four seasons. And it looks miles better than a rucksack-with-legs Aerostich, if you ask me. Buy one before BMW wakes up to how much their warranty claims are costing! Now, wasn't there a loose stitch somewhere in the jacket....? From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 25 11:54:07 1997 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:37:58 -0600 From: Jay Martin Subject: Re: BMW: Aerostitch Hip Pads To: Terry Smith Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Jay Martin Terry, At 10:23 AM 7/25/97 +0000, you wrote: ... >I'd appreciate some feedback on >comfort and crash protection (anybody go down with the pads >on/not on but think they would have helped?). I have the hip pads in both my one-piece and in my wife/daughter's Darien. My daughter and I suffered the misfortune to test these on our last trip. (See upcoming "College Trip Part 2.") They are fantastic. Without them, I think we would have both been very, very sore. They cushioned the impact to the point where neither of us had any bruising or even soreness the next day. Downside is that they interfere with access through the side zippers. This is an inconvenience when you want to get to your pants' pockets or when fussing with the chord on a heated vest, an inconvenience I am now more than willing to put up with. Hope this help, Jay Martin martinjNoSpam@NoSpammscd.edu http://www.mscd.edu/~martinj/ Denver, Colorado USA 1977 R75/7 "Pfennig" 1976 R90/6 "Ehrbar" From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 25 13:13:28 1997 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:43:35 -0700 (PDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Dennis & Karen Withner Subject: BMW: Aerostich Hip Pads Cc: tsmith2NoSpam@NoSpamwhsun1.wh.whoi.edu Reply-To: Dennis & Karen Withner >From: "Terry Smith" >I'm thinking about adding a set of hip pads to my 'Stitch. If any of >our esteemed clan uses the pads I'd appreciate some feedback on >comfort and crash protection (anybody go down with the pads >on/not on but think they would have helped?). Yea Verrrrrrrrrily Brother, Go yea without hesitation to the phone and call, yes I said CALL brother Andy, TODAY. Offer up a DONATION to the GREAT Aerostitch. Other things may "save ur soles", the pads ......WILL SAVE ur butt. IF U travel down the road of life on ur side as I have done in my SINFULL past, if u OVERCOOK a corner ....ONLY to find a SAND PATCH .......waiting for U, if that sandy asphalt transitions to a METAL GRATED BRIDGE DECK, ........u will be saved, .... as I was. Yea, not even a bruise appeared, to blemish my hip. GO my brother... PHONE TODAY. P.S. - While ur at it order the spine pad too! No experience there yet, but I can SEE the potential value. Brother Dennis, ULC (DMW) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Dennis Maxwell, & Karen Lee, Withner BMWRA/AIRHEADS/MOA/ULC Ham-NX7D SSI-IT #123 Ham-KA7EJO ANDI,NAUI,YMCA,PADI Diving Travel Agent Washington Divers Inc. 903 N State St, Bellingham WA 98225 ph 360-676-8029 fax 360-647-5028 ~Diving Educators and Outfitters since 1973~ 77' R100/7 "Educator" Carpe Beemum - (sieze the Beemer) see U aroundel *********************** From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Jul 25 16:21:40 1997 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:43:08 -0700 From: "Max C. McHatton" To: Nick Horley Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Hot!!! weather protective clothing Reply-To: "Max C. McHatton" Nick Horley wrote: > > > DSS38NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: > > > > > > Moved from Seattle back to Texas, and need advice on what works for pants and jacket in the summer in this heat. > > Never been to Texas - but southern Spain in summer (40 Centigrade and > more) was bearable in the BMW Kalahari suit, which was after all > designed for desert use. The year before I tried to get there in > leathers, and had to turn back. I concur. I live in southern Oregon, where 100 f days are not uncommon. I am now using a BMW Kalahari jacket, and it is the best I've tried. With the Goretex liner removed, it realy breaths; unlike suits with non removable water barriers. Max From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 26 12:43:13 1997 From: spikeNoSpam@NoSpamhevanet.com Date: Sat, 26 Jul 97 09:34 PDT Subject: re:BMW: Aerostitch Hip Pads To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: spikeNoSpam@NoSpamhevanet.com Yet another $.02 worth- about 4 weeks ago I dropped my K on the freeway at 60- slid into a cement divider and bounced a couple of feet into the air and whacked back down again. I got some shredded ballistics and small holes rubbed through the material of my 2pc Roadcrafter. My right elbow and shoulder hit hard, but NO soreness. I had no hip pads and my rt. hip is still a little sore. You shoulda' seen the bruise! Hip pads should be standard for those of us who ride like we might need 'em! Spike Cornelius 85 K100(S) 65 Triumph 500 Portland,Or From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 26 20:13:22 1997 From: MGA1201NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 20:04:10 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Hot!!! weather protective clothing Reply-To: MGA1201NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com I have a First Gear Scout jacket.. Great hot or cold!. Zippers if front and back for "flow through ventilation. Zippered vent in the cuffs for wind up your sleeves. Superior materials. Zippers are plastic, just in case you actually need the protection ;-( big bucks ~$500 but worth it. Jim Goski 82 R100RS 96 H*nd* shadow (the wife's, but fun to ride if I get tired of going fast) From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sat Jul 26 22:38:40 1997 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:25:41 -0400 From: David & Mariana Syrotiak To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: HOT!! weather protecyive clothing Reply-To: David & Mariana Syrotiak > > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 20:04:10 -0400 (EDT) > From: MGA1201NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com > Subject: BMW: Hot!!! weather protective clothing > > I have a First Gear Scout jacket.. Great hot or cold!. Zippers if front and > back for "flow through ventilation. Zippered vent in the cuffs for wind up > your sleeves. Superior materials. Zippers are plastic, just in case you > actually need the protection ;-( big bucks ~$500 but worth it. > Jim Goski > 82 R100RS > 96 H*nd* shadow (the wife's, but fun to ride if I get tired of going fast) > WOW MAN, YOU GOT RIPPED OFF!!! I bought a firstgear scout about 1 1/2 years ago and I only paid $349.99 for it! Do yourself a favor, If you want good gear, buy it at a Motorcycle show during the winter! L8R! David J. Syrotiak Brattleboro, VT '95 R1100R (Brenda) From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 27 03:32:26 1997 From: Hosmann95NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 03:04:06 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Re: Hot!!! Weather protective clothing (Cool Vest) Reply-To: Hosmann95NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com I also ride with a Firstgear Scout leather jacket. I have an older one (about 5 years old) with the metal zippers and snaps instead of velcro. It has held up extremely well, I even rode it through a thunderstorm once. I've ridden with this jacket in temperatures around 95-100 with the front, rear, and arm ducts open. It's relatively comfortable until I stopped at a light, obviously. I recently added a "Cool Vest" underneath the jacket. I posted about this about a month ago. This is a mesh vest with strips of the "cool collar" material sewn into it (four front and four on the back). With the jacket's vents open, it really helps keep my body temperature more comfortable. I can't say I ever feel truly "cool" when it's 95 degrees outside, but I ride for a while and realize that I haven't felt as warm as I had without the vest on. Plus, since the strips hold the water without leaking, the leather jacket stays dry, unlike wearing a wet t-shirt. If anyone's interested in getting one of these vests, I can get one and send it to you. Just e-mail me at Hosmann95NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com for more info. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 27 08:51:46 1997 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 07:44:38 -0500 From: Andrus Chesley To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Protective clothing Reply-To: Andrus Chesley Hi all you lovley people; Been reading the thread 'bout the protective clothing. That's no problem at all. All's you need to do is go down several times without it (hard headed cajun). Spend time with people picking pieces of shell, gravel, etc. out of your hide, hold a beer can with your wrists because your hands are to skinned up to do other wise. Burn a couple holes thru your jeans so you gotta stand up for a lot or lay on your belly. Lucky enuff to have worn a helmet most of these falls, but have skinned the head, busted the nose (not that pretty any how), the mouth (still have my teeth 'cept one or two) and scraped the chin. Some of these last even with a 3/4 coverage hat on. Now, after 39 years I ride with protective gear 95% of the time in out little town and 100% out of town. So do what you gotta do. Just hope it don't take ya'll as long to learn as it did me. Andy Chesley Jennings, La. R11GSA KLR600 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 27 11:39:12 1997 From: Mikegs11NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:30:09 -0400 (EDT) To: drbob27NoSpam@NoSpampop4.ibm.net, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: light colored Cordura? Reply-To: Mikegs11NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Try the dirt bike shops in your area, look for "Moose" brand, they look pretty good and are light for summer, My brother got a nice medium blue one at the National Rally. They also have zipper venting etc. Check them out. Mike Hankinson Hudsonville MI 95 GS11 Black of Course From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 29 12:41:50 1997 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 09:48:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Jerome Cook To: drbob27 Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: light colored Cordura? Reply-To: Jerome Cook When I called Gerbings to order my riding suit we talked about colors. I forget who I spoke to bu he said that if the standard colors were not what I wanted that they would go out and buy a few yards of material in the color I wanted. Give them a call and see what they will do for you. I am having extra pockets installed and other custom features and they didnt want extra $$$ (none of the changes were extreem) I toyed with the idea of a very light color material cause its summertime and hot. but I figured it might look ratty after a while and went with a darker color. If I can afford a second suit and have it made of lighter weight material I think I will get a light color also and use it in summer. It might work well for your wife riding occasionally. the Gerbings (& STITCH) are MACHINE WASHABLE so maybe cleaning would not be so hard. I'm really tired of seeing dark colors but they do hide dirt & Grease. Gerbings = 1-800-646-5916 Cheers Jerry Cook On Sun, 27 Jul 1997, drbob27 wrote: > > Anyone know where I can get a light colored Cordura riding jacket for > my wife, other than $$Aerostitch$$? Everything I see is black or > red/black, blue/black. Since she mostly rides with me in summer, > seems like a poor idea. > > I asked this once before, but it was around National time, so I'm > trying again. > > bob > From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 27 18:41:49 1997 From: WARUSZEWSKNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 18:09:31 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Re:First Gear and HG jackets Reply-To: WARUSZEWSKNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com While I am moderately pleased with my HG California 2, the air vents on front reach almost from shoulder to waiste. However in an RS position, the do not tend to stay open real well.The FG TKO is a very similar jacket with its main vents being the same but also having additional vents on the sleeves and the neck thingie on the liner. I really prefer the TKO over the Cal 2. I may end up taking the Cal 2 into a leather shop and have a few additional vents added. Seems to me, with an RT there may not even much air to vent. VIC WARUSZEWSKI, SoD # 21 VI#1 MOA 85 K100RS BMW Touring Club of Detroit MOA#1, Motor City Beemers Team K-Basa #3 http://pages.prodigy.com/bmwtcd We'll have some high times, and live them low. Get some fast food and eat it slow. I'm hungry when I get up, and sleepy when I eat. Only time I feel right, I got the road beneith my feet. - The Fabulous Thunderbirds From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 27 18:49:27 1997 From: LCarl14NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 17:56:22 -0400 (EDT) To: ynotfixNoSpam@NoSpamwgn.net, MGA1201NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Re: Hot!!! weather protective clothing Reply-To: LCarl14NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com I concur on the quality of the Scout. However, for me it is too short in the torso. For about the same $, Heine Gericke's original jacket for the U.S., the Concord jacket, is superior. Larry Carlson NYNY 1995 K75 1989 'Vulcan 1500 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Sun Jul 27 22:03:50 1997 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 18:40:13 -0700 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: "David, Tina & Robin" Subject: BMW: Neck coolers Reply-To: "David, Tina & Robin" Just ordered 80/100w headlight and extra bright tail light bulb for my 95 r100gs.. Now I'm wondering if this is going to screw with my electrical system somehow... Also I need to know if lubricating clutch splines is some thing that a novice "wrench" should try to take on..? HOT TIP-------- "Neck coolers" I just bought some at a craft fair ($5.00 each). These things are a necessity in hot weather. You can even put them inside your jacket. Very cool !! Dave N. Calif. Red 95 R100GS From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jul 28 02:35:50 1997 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Hot!!! weather protective clothing X-Disclaimer: Unless otherwise noted below, this is not a policy statement Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:55:26 +0530 From: "Kenton A. Hoover" Reply-To: "Kenton A. Hoover" I've had good results with the Vansen Avenger jacket in the US. Here in Hell, I don't use one, and I have a scar on my arm to show for it. My brain is boiled enough from the helmet. The problem here is that any protective gear you have has to be tolerable (note I do not say comfortable) to wear when you are not moving, because in City traffic here, you aren't moving. If you don't follow this rule, between the helmet and leathers, you are going to die from heat prostration, or at least your concentration is going to be thrown off enough that you are going to die in traffic. India is a weird place to ride. The streets are full of entire families (Dad drives, Mom rides side-saddle with a kid on her lap, the other kid stands on the floorboards between dad's legs) on locally-produced Vespas, almost no one wears a helmet (they do often wear face shields to deflect rocks) and the last riders I saw with leathers on were coming on a tour from Germany (they brought their BMWs with them). As to the traffic, visualize playing "Asterioids" without the ability to shoot the rocks. And you are playing for keeps. > DSS38NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: > > I'll generally start out wearing a HG TKO jacket and regular jeans, high > boots and gloves, but after about 11:30am the jacket just has to come > off, or I have to go home. After sundown, jacket is back on. BTW, last > Saturday I rode with a Honda group, moonlight ride starting at 9:00pm, > and I was the only one of about 40 riders with a leather jacket on. > > Have looked at the perforated leather pants, Hein Gericke, but they are > rather pricey. | Kenton A. Hoover / Engineering Computer Services | shibumiNoSpam@NoSpamcisco.com | | Chennai Offshore Development Center | | | Cisco Systems (India) Limited | +91 44 481 9939 | |===================== http://www.shockwave.com/~shibumi ====================| | Man: "Sometimes the straightest path is thru the mud." | | Dog: "Good, rationalize it with an obtuse metaphor." | | Carrie Fisher said that, at Belushi's memorial service, she thought: | | 'All these people who I'd seen do drugs with him, and you know what | | they were thinking? Hoping? That what he died of was not what they | | liked to do best.' | | From: "Wired": The Short Life and Fast Times of John Belushi" | From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 30 11:46:40 1997 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:20:20 +0100 From: Nick Horley To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Hot weather gear - let's stop missing the point! Reply-To: Nick Horley People keep asking for advice on this, and getting duff information. Let's stop making silly comparisons between the Stich and the Kalahari - they are totally different, and if I had the money I would have both. And let's not waste time mentioning any leather jacket, however many vents it has. If we're talking about hot weather, this is what counts: Both the Stich and the Kalahari have a Cordura layer, a Gore-Tex layer, and a lining. The Stich's Gore-Tex is an integral membrane. Remember that Gore-Tex keeps out rain AND WIND - you know, that stuff that keeps you cool? The Kalahari's Gore-Tex is removable. You have to take off the suit to do it, and it takes the best part of five minutes. But then air can flow in through all the suit fabric, not just the vents. This is why the Kalahari is the coolest in hot weather. It is after all designed for desert trips as well as street riding; it's the only suit I know of which combines so many of the features needed in both environments. And yes, you may have to take off your pants to put the Kalahari on. But if it's hot, you don't want to wear an extra layer anyway. And the close fit makes for better protection in an accident. The bottom line is: if you ride in the summer and you haven't tried the Kalahari, you have no idea what you're missing. From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jul 28 04:28:24 1997 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:19:34 +0900 (JST) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com (Internet BMW Riders) From: jyoshidaNoSpam@NoSpameast.ncc.go.jp (YOSHIDA, Junji) Subject: Re: BMW: Hot!!! weather protective clothing Cc: DSS38NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Reply-To: jyoshidaNoSpam@NoSpameast.ncc.go.jp (YOSHIDA, Junji) In Japan, sports gear company Phenix sells neat summer jacket. It is one of their Wayne Gardner Riding Wear line-up. It is made of dual polyester mesh all around and holds punched pads in the sleeves, shoulders and back. It also has a waist belt with reflectives and a loop to hold the back of the jacket to your pants. Available in gold, silver and metallic light green. Sizes: S, M, L, O, XO. 26,000 Yen. Although I've never tried it on, I think the design will allow lots of wind around your body. They even sell optional "wind stopper" to go with the jacket for lower temperature (6,200 Yen). For more details and availability abroad, send fax to Phenix at +81-3-9941-9207. I have a M/C mag that has this jacket ad in it. If you want to see how it looks, I can scan the color ad and e-mail you. FYI, 1US$ is about 117 Yen today. ******************************************************** YOSHIDA, Junji, M.D. '93 R1100RS / '96 Honda Domani "Memento Mori" BMWMOA #71184/BMWRA #20664/ IOC #491 BOOF #36/OSP #6/DIPS #9/RATCJ #1/IAJS#1/'59ers #611 Web Album at; http://mars.superlink.net/~rriegler/njsbmwmr/junji/ by courtesy of Richard Riegler, NJSBMWR Division of Thoracic Surgery, National Cancer Center Hospital East 6-5-1, Kashiwanoha, Kashiwa, Chiba, 277 JAPAN ******************************************************** From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jul 28 12:01:40 1997 From: Hosmann95NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:36:18 -0400 (EDT) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: BMW: Re:Hot Weather Clothing... Cool Clothing Reply-To: Hosmann95NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Take a "Cool Collar" and soak it only half full. Wind it up and put it in your helmet on top of your head. Wear a "Cool Vest," which has thin strips of the cool collar material sewn into a mesh vest, under your jacket. The water from both will evaporate slowly, lowering your body temperature. If anyone's interested, I can get a cool vest for you and mail it to you. I haven't seen these anywhere else before, but a friend of mine in Sacramento owns a Harley aftermarket store and he started selling these vests after experiencing them at the Laughlin River Run last spring. He's had a lot of success selling them to Sacramento Police and CHP officers who wear them under their body armor and he's sold some orange vests to CalTrans road crews. E-mail me at Hosmann95NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com for more info. They cost $40, If you send me $45 to cover shipping, I'll mail one to you. Steve Sacramento R1100R From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 29 19:15:39 1997 Posted-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:01:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "Adam Wolkoff" To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:02:22 +0000 Subject: BMW: Another reason to buy a Stich Reply-To: "Adam Wolkoff" I have a 2 piece Roadcrafter with over 50K on it. I finally broke down and washed it (Nikwak=good. Follow up with an application of campdry, per Andy's Elves). During the washing process, the snap on the pants came off the pants themselves. I called up Aero and asked how much to repair. "Free," was the reply. I got on the bike and headed for duluth. About 2 hours later I arrived at the factory. They have done a bit on an interior remodel since my last visit. I hand my suit to a friendly employee, who takes the time to buy me a Coke before heading off to fix the garment. I spent the next 30 minutes or so browing in the shop, drinking my coke, and relaxing. Another friendly employee returned with my suit. "I noticed that the zipper sliders on your suit were worn, so I replaced them." He was as good as his word: EVERY zipper was replaced with a brand new YKK. "No Charge," he added. I keep trying to wear the suit out so I can get another one, but these guys keep rebuilding it. When it finally wears out, you can bet I will replace it with another Aerostich. There is no substitute. Regards, Adam Wolkoff Saint Paul, Minnesota awolkoffNoSpam@NoSpamnospam.visi.com http://www.visi.com/~awolkoff/FeBUTT.html St. Paul, MN LoRent Racing--Ironbutt 97 #35 *Sponsorship Opportunities Available* From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Jul 29 23:51:42 1997 From: "Pat Roddy" To: "Adam Wolkoff" , Subject: BMW: Re: Another reason to buy a Stich Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:22:43 -0400 X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Pat Roddy" Adam continues: > I keep trying to wear the suit out so I can get another one, but > these guys keep rebuilding it. When it finally wears out, you can > bet I will replace it with another Aerostich. > > There is no substitute. > Adam: This ought to be placed on the website as a FAQ for when guys(and gals) ask about riding suits. Mine has about the same mileage yours does, and even though the velcro on the front flap is toast, I just can't be without it long enough to send it in for a 'tune-up'. Somebody here last week was slamming the 'Stich in favor of the BMW Kalahari suit. It was difficult to hold back, but I did. The K. suit is ok, but it has wimpy zippers, is black (not good in heat), has wimpy zippers, the pants cannot easily be pulled over clothes (OR BOOTS), takes forever to get zipped up into (although the storm flap is excellent-the 'Stich could benefit from a flap like that) and is 300.00+ more expensive. For poseurs, the K. suit fits better ;-) I ride with a friend who has one. We start getting 'dressed' at the same time. Usually about 10 MILES down the road, I see his headlight in my mirrors :-) I slow down so he can 'catch up'. pr From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jul 31 22:33:39 1997 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:16:52 -0600 To: EsquireTedNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com From: Steven Huber Subject: BMW: Re: Another reason to buy a Stich Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Steven Huber First Prez Gary Nelson says: >>I concur! When I've stopped in for minor repairs, they've done the >same thing -- replaced zipper pulls! No fuss, no muss, no questions, >no cost!< Then Prez Ted V responds: >Be quite glad they do this, the only complaint I have about my wonderful >Aerostich is that the zippers need improving. I would love to send in my >Roadcrafter Jacket as the tab on the main zipperpull (down the front) broke >off, and both sleeve sliders simply self-destructed. .. bobbited text here I gotta agree here with Ted. I love my 'Stich, but the zipper pulls just don't hold up, the wrist ones are the worst (seem to replace at least one each year), and lost the left leg zipper in April. Replacement has not been cheap. I pay shipping (both ways) plus repair. On another issue the TF2 pads don't seem to last beyond a year... I'm not complaining about Aerostich per se, just trying to balance the "free repairs" reports. They're always repaired the suit promptly and have done good work. I've made several other mail order purchases beyond the 'Stich and haven't experienced the generosity others report As usual, this is just my own $0.02. YMMV. BTW, I've found that safety wire works well as a zipper pull replacement. ************************************************************************ Steven Huber '88 R100RX '90 K75S IBMWR, BMWRA, BMW MOA, AMA, G.O.B #17, IBMC, UMCI Madison, WI shuberNoSpam@NoSpamitis.com From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Fri Aug 1 03:23:10 1997 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:26:15 -0700 (MST) X-Sent-Via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ To: Steven Huber From: Mick McKinnon Subject: Re: BMW: Re: Another reason to buy a Stich Cc: EsquireTedNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com, bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Reply-To: Mick McKinnon At 09:16 PM 7/31/97 -0600, Steven Huber wrote: > >First Prez Gary Nelson says: >>>I concur! When I've stopped in for minor repairs, they've done the >>same thing -- replaced zipper pulls! No fuss, no muss, no questions, >>no cost!< > >Then Prez Ted V responds: > >>Be quite glad they do this, the only complaint I have about my wonderful >>Aerostich is that the zippers need improving. I would love to send in my >>Roadcrafter Jacket as the tab on the main zipperpull (down the front) broke >>off, and both sleeve sliders simply self-destructed. >.. bobbited text here > >I gotta agree here with Ted. I love my 'Stich, but the zipper pulls just >don't hold up, the wrist ones are the worst (seem to replace at least one >each year), and lost the left leg zipper in April. Replacement has not been >cheap. I pay shipping (both ways) plus repair. >On another issue the TF2 pads don't seem to last beyond a year... > >I'm not complaining about Aerostich per se, just trying to balance the >"free repairs" reports. They're always repaired the suit promptly and have >done good work. I've made several other mail order purchases beyond the >'Stich and haven't experienced the generosity others report > >As usual, this is just my own $0.02. YMMV. > > >BTW, I've found that safety wire works well as a zipper pull replacement. > Steve, What I used for my broken pulls were nickel plated key rings. I found a good supply at an office products store. The come in just the right sizes. Everytime I have lost a zipper pull...I make do for a while and then call one of Andy's folks in Duluth.....they put the new sipper slides in the mail that day and I usually have them in 4 days or so. It only takes a minute or two to replace the defective slide with the new one. I've never paid a cent for these slides. I agree on the TF-2 pads though.... pretty dismal life expectancy. Mick _____________________________________________________________ '93 K1100LT..Quick Trips! BOOF #78 K11LT_MickNoSpam@NoSpamVnet.IBM.Com '96 R1100RT.....Twisties! MOA#57053 RA#20083 bmwmickNoSpam@NoSpamazstarnet.com Tucson, AZ / Simi Valley, CA http://www.azstarnet.com/~bmwmick/mick.htm From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Jul 30 13:37:56 1997 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:18:44 -0400 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com, nick.horleyNoSpam@NoSpamvirgin.net From: daliNoSpam@NoSpamnetrox.net (Dali Meeow) Subject: BMW: Darien vs. Kalahari Reply-To: daliNoSpam@NoSpamnetrox.net (Dali Meeow) Nick Horley says "Hot weather gear - let's stop missing the point!" Nick goes on to say [incorrectly] that the Stich and Kalahari are both good, but that one of them has a permanent Gore-Tex liner that keeps out the wind while the other has a removeable liner. Gore-Tex does not keep out the wind. Gore-Tex has very small holes that do keep out the rain, but it allows air to circulate through. That's the beauty of Gore-Tex. That's also why I have a Darien jacket ... it breathes here in muggy Miami. I owned the Kalahari jacket and it fit well and looked great. The Kalahari was a fashion statement; wonderful for posing. But when I ride, I want to stay cool and dry, so I wear the Darien with much better venting (cooler) and better rain protection. I have a long, long review on jackets if anyone really wants to see a comparison. > >Nick Horley >Subject: BMW: Hot weather gear - let's stop missing the point! (snip) >Both the Stich and the Kalahari have a Cordura layer, a Gore-Tex layer, >and a lining. The Stich's Gore-Tex is an integral membrane. Remember >that Gore-Tex keeps out rain AND WIND - you know, that stuff that keeps >you cool? The Kalahari's Gore-Tex is removable. (snip) >The bottom line is: if you ride in the summer and you haven't tried the >Kalahari, you have no idea what you're missing. And if you ride in really hot weather, you need the Darien or the BodyGard by Motoport. I nearly melted with my Kalahari. Stephen and the Royal Feline Fur Ball Production Company ... the notorious Dali Meeow (chanting lama prayers to perverse traction Gods while upside down), Miss Fluff (guarding the back yard from those ubiquitous back yard thieves), and Fancy (awaiting a new name while exhorting the troops to new levels of fur ball production). From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Mon Jul 28 04:28:24 1997 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:19:34 +0900 (JST) To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com (Internet BMW Riders) From: jyoshidaNoSpam@NoSpameast.ncc.go.jp (YOSHIDA, Junji) Subject: Re: BMW: Hot!!! weather protective clothing Cc: DSS38NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Reply-To: jyoshidaNoSpam@NoSpameast.ncc.go.jp (YOSHIDA, Junji) In Japan, sports gear company Phenix sells neat summer jacket. It is one of their Wayne Gardner Riding Wear line-up. It is made of dual polyester mesh all around and holds punched pads in the sleeves, shoulders and back. It also has a waist belt with reflectives and a loop to hold the back of the jacket to your pants. Available in gold, silver and metallic light green. Sizes: S, M, L, O, XO. 26,000 Yen. Although I've never tried it on, I think the design will allow lots of wind around your body. They even sell optional "wind stopper" to go with the jacket for lower temperature (6,200 Yen). For more details and availability abroad, send fax to Phenix at +81-3-9941-9207. I have a M/C mag that has this jacket ad in it. If you want to see how it looks, I can scan the color ad and e-mail you. FYI, 1US$ is about 117 Yen today. ******************************************************** YOSHIDA, Junji, M.D. '93 R1100RS / '96 Honda Domani "Memento Mori" BMWMOA #71184/BMWRA #20664/ IOC #491 BOOF #36/OSP #6/DIPS #9/RATCJ #1/IAJS#1/'59ers #611 Web Album at; http://mars.superlink.net/~rriegler/njsbmwmr/junji/ by courtesy of Richard Riegler, NJSBMWR Division of Thoracic Surgery, National Cancer Center Hospital East 6-5-1, Kashiwanoha, Kashiwa, Chiba, 277 JAPAN ******************************************************** From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Tue Aug 5 23:05:07 1997 From: Tom Nash To: "'Ed Snider (eds)'" , "'bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com'" Subject: BMW: RE: Kilimanjaro jacket Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 19:49:58 -0700 Reply-To: Tom Nash Ed, I still agree with everything I said below, and the jacket is holding up = very well. The only problem I have had with the jacket is that some of = the little rubber covers on the outside snaps fell off. I think they = are there to protect the bike's paint from the metal snaps in case you = lean on the tank, but that has not been a problem for me. I'm short = (5'6" tall), so if it is not a problem for me, I doubt that it will be = an issue for anyone else. I am probably just going to paint the snaps = black and forget about it. The zippers are holding up very well, as is = the velcro that closes the sleeves, neck, etc. No problems there at = all. So, in a nutshell, would I do it again? Yes - I am happy with the = jacket. I paid $269.00 for mine at a place called Road Riders in San Jose, CA. = They are one of the discount houses that everyone on the list is fussing = about. If your dealer is charging $300.00, that's pretty much in the = ballpark. My local BMW dealer was also charging around $300.00, but he = did not have any in stock when I wanted it. You know how that goes - = I've made up my mind, so I want it NOW. I did go to my local BMW dealer and buy matching First Gear pants that = are not the bib-type, but they do have a high waist. The pants are a = bit on the warm side, so I am tempted to wear shorts under them when = riding on warm days. The pants were $195.00 (or was it $189.00? - I = cannot remember.) Same good quality, no problems, and everything is = rain-proof. As far as the armour and padding go, I have no way of judging that. It = does seem like it might be a bit on the light side, but it is certainly = better than a standard leather jacket in my opinion. A couple of riding = friends have Aerostiches, and from a casual inspection they don't seem = like they would be substantially better from a crash-worthiness = standpoint. (Boy, am I leaving myself open to major flames on that = one...) The Tour Master I looked at seemed to be heavier nylon and had = hard armour, but I do not know if the hard stuff is any better. For me, = the Tour Master did not fit, and the armour was in the wrong place, so = it probably would do me more harm than good. I looked at the BMW = Kalahari armour, and it seemed about the same as the Kilimanjaro. I = have not tried a crash test, and no, I am not going to volunteer to do = that. :) Then again, maybe I could take that R1100 that was = drop-tested last week, crash it, and solve everyone's jacket questions = and bike problems at the same time. ;) I'm satisfied, and I have no problem recommending the Kilimanjaro to = someone else. I hope this helps. Tom Nash '94 K1100RS San Francisco -----Original Message----- From: Ed Snider (eds) [SMTP:edsNoSpam@NoSpamsequent.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 10:02 AM To: Tom Nash Subject: RE: Kilimanjaro jacket Hi Tom As you can tell, a few months back you sent me this message regarding the Kilimanjaro. Well because of one excuse or another I haven't = purchased one yet. But I did get to check one out a couple of weeks ago. Liked the looks, the fit, the weight but the armor/padding seem pretty light. Anyway I was just wondering if I could get some more of your = comments now that you have had it for awhile. Also local dealer is wanting $300 for the jacket. Thanks again Ed ---------- From: Tom Nash To: 'Ed Snider' Subject: RE: Kilimanjaro jacket Date: Wednesday, May 21, 1997 21:10PM Ed, I am very happy with the jacket. It is comfortable and lightweight, and = =3D I have a funny feeling that my leather jackets may last a long time =3D hanging in the closet. I have had opportunities this spring to use the = =3D Kilimanjaro with the liner in cold weather, and it worked very well. It = =3D was much warmer than my leather jacket with a sweater or sweatshrt =3D underneath. My only regret is that the Kilimanjaro does not have an =3D inside pocket. I have not purchased pants yet. I looked at First Gear's Expedition =3D pants, but I discovered that the one I want, the Expedition I, is no =3D longer made. The Expedition II is very similar, except that the bib on = =3D the Expedition II does not zip as off so one can use the pants without = =3D the bib. The Expedition I does have that feature. Not sure what I am = =3D going to do about pants. Tom Nash ---------- From: Ed Snider[SMTP:edsNoSpam@NoSpamsequent.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 1997 10:15 AM To: tomnashNoSpam@NoSpamwco.com Subject: Kilimanjaro jacket Hi Tom Last month you posted a very informative article to bmwmc digest about the Kilimanjaro jacket you had purchased. I've been looking at that jacket recently and was wondering if you might have some=3D20 more input about it and possibly about the h-t pants, if you did end up getting them, since you've had a chance to use them for awhile. A friend has the Tour Master Cortech jacket I think you were also talking about, and the lack of vents on that jacket has me leaning towards the Kilimanjaro. Thanks ed edsNoSpam@NoSpamsequent.com =00=00 From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Wed Aug 6 13:25:04 1997 Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:10:05 -0700 From: "Max C. McHatton" To: Pat Roddy Cc: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Subject: Re: BMW: Hot weather gear - let's stop missing the point! Reply-To: "Max C. McHatton" Pat Roddy wrote: > > OK, Nick and Max, tell me more. > > I see plenty of 'Stiches around (I own one myself). Fill me in a little > more, will ya??? :-) > > 1) The zippers. Are they going to last? They appear to me to be on the > wimpy side. How are they working day to day? The zippers on my Kalahari work quite well. I am able to zip and unzip the front of the jacket and the arm vents on the go. The only dificulty is making sure you dont get the mesh in the arm vents caught in the zipper. The mesh is a nice feature, as it keeps nasties like yellow jackets from getting inside your jacket. A simple and effective method of keeping the mesh out of the zipper is to keep one finger between the zipper and the mesh. > > 2) The pants. Do you wear anything under them? Shorts? Light pants? > or are they their 'own' pants? Can you put them on over your boots or > do you have to have your boots off? I do not as of yet have the kalahari pants. I have the older all black BMW Goretex pants that will zip to the Kalahari jacket. I wear light weight silk long underpants under my goretex pants. This wicks the moisture off your legs and allows the pants to slip freely. > > 3) The venting WITH the liner in. Does it work well? Does water come > in during a rainshower? Unlike other Goretex riding gear, you can use the vents without getting wet. The outer shell is totaly breathable, and air flows through it, even with the vents closed. The Kalahari comes with a goretex pouch for keeping things dry in one of the outer pockets. I keep my garage door opener in it. The Goretex liner has a tripple storm flap that does a good job of keeping out water. The liner may even be worn independantely of the outer shell, providing lightweight rain protection while off of the bike. > > 4) The cuffs. DO you get any breezes up the sleeves or are they pretty > 'tight'? The ends of the sleeves are elastisized, zipper closed and have an additional velcro closure. You can make the cuffs tight or loose as you like. > > That should do for now. :-) > > Thanks, guys. > > pr From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Aug 7 06:54:45 1997 Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 06:48:25 -0500 To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com From: Sean Reid Subject: BMW: Re: Gerbings Reply-To: Sean Reid X-No-Archive: yes I have no experience with the full Gerbings suits but their vests are the most effective of all the brands my wife and I have used. They will also custom fit many of their products to your measurements which allows the vest to be in good contact with your body no matter what shape it is. I recommend them highly...no commercial interest in them, etc... I wonder if the key difference would come down to the Gerbing's abrasion protection and padding. In colder weather, I use a stich, polar fleece and the vest and that combination works very well. Sean Reid sreidNoSpam@NoSpamsover.net Northeastern Motorcycle Tours New England, the Adirondacks and the Canadian Maritimes http://www.ariasoft.com/mctours From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Aug 7 18:37:57 1997 From: Darrin Earhart To: "'bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com'" Subject: Re: BMW: Seeking Advice on Hot Weather Riding Gear Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:07:18 -0400 X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Reply-To: Darrin Earhart X-No-Archive: yes Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:10:05 -0700 From: "Max C. McHatton" Subject: Re: BMW: Hot weather gear - let's stop missing the point! Pat Roddy wrote: > > OK, Nick and Max, tell me more. > > I see plenty of 'Stiches around (I own one myself). Fill me in a little > more, will ya??? :-) > > 1) The zippers. Are they going to last? They appear to me to be on the > wimpy side. How are they working day to day? The zippers on my Kalahari work quite well. I am able to zip and unzip the front of the jacket and the arm vents on the go. The only dificulty is making sure you dont get the mesh in the arm vents caught in the zipper. The mesh is a nice feature, as it keeps nasties like yellow jackets from getting inside your jacket. A simple and effective method of keeping the mesh out of the zipper is to keep one finger between the zipper and the mesh. > > 2) The pants. Do you wear anything under them? Shorts? Light pants? > or are they their 'own' pants? Can you put them on over your boots or > do you have to have your boots off? I do not as of yet have the kalahari pants. I have the older all black BMW Goretex pants that will zip to the Kalahari jacket. I wear light weight silk long underpants under my goretex pants. This wicks the moisture off your legs and allows the pants to slip freely. Pat, Nick, Max: I wear the Darian pants and here's what I wear underneath in hot weather: mountain bike shorts - they look somewhat like regular baggy shorts but are designed to wear without underwear for hot sweaty bike rides and have a padded liner made from some miracle fiber (coolmax) that adds some additional comfort (for you iron butters)...yea, I read the Aerostitch warning about the nylon pants getting hot in a slide, but this setup is much more comfortable and cooler than jeans in warm weather. And when you get off, these shorts are somewhat presentable when you take off your Darians! Mountain bike shorts are readily available at a good bicycle shop from several manufacturers. All you warm weather Aerostitch users say thankyou! Dr. DRE begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A<5`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!NoSpam@NoSpam`(````Y 0```````#H``$-NoSpam@NoSpam 0` M`NoSpam@NoSpam````(``NoSpam@NoSpam`!!) &`!P!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#NoSpam@NoSpam`````"`?\/ M`0```$4`````````NoSpam@NoSpam2L?I+ZC$!F=;NoSpam@NoSpam#=`0]4`NoSpam@NoSpam````!B;7=M8T!W;W)L9"YS M=&0N8V]M`%--5% `8FUW;6- =V]R;&0N``(P`0````4` M``!33510`````!X``S !````% ```&)M=VUC0'=O`' ``0```#,```!293HNoSpam@NoSpam0DU7.B!3965K:6YG($%D=FEC M92!O;B!(;W0NoSpam@NoSpam5V5A=&AE/J?=*N20\$$=&9:D1%4U0`````'NoSpam@NoSpam`># $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\, M`0```!(```!B;'5E;6]O;D!N8W-I+FYE= ````,`!A DY>S-`P`'$&,&```> M``NoSpam@NoSpam0`0```&4```!$051%.E=%1"PP-D%51S$Y.3AC M:R `<&0%T!^P'0`]$]!L`R 'NoSpam@NoSpam"5 !;!E+OLH7RENoSpam@NoSpam223P"> F`"2NoSpam@NoSpam`C"!)]!O M9B G4W0IT%\C\ 0NoSpam@NoSpam"L (8"HA*"RNoSpam@NoSpam;SYW`Z "("L!$[ JL&8I?1_P1NoSpam@NoSpam,0*M,+ MNoSpam@NoSpam"H`))!I?P) )* K=RLB'0`#\"K!>81A/S)P(#HM*2M_H2ENoSpam@NoSpam,2DNoSpam@NoSpam5"7A>NoSpam@NoSpam4NoSpam@NoSpam M^G $D',?\ <0)? CX2?0UF1#801V(CL5G2>2/NoSpam@NoSpam)9+7+F$D`2/A;3*04U0``"#R%K/=9PNoSpam@NoSpam= `R "8$*A"H4C(?PNoSpam@NoSpam1RLQ$] ?P%S3)<$G8?\R M`T!"-NoSpam@NoSpam$ETCW'4=I#V1-:!N MB42S_T9Q`_ IX&\B,08$8 0`30+W:!)1="2NoSpam@NoSpam9RX1*B%M(2[0]W;#;M8V$',9 MT"4P`U )X/]%0"MF&BPFV2FD'0`?H2A&_VC77<,ETAQP!R$#H&[D*A+U(_%E M)-%W;U)QM5ZC(6#_(]$P4E0`(Y<(ETEXNoSpam@NoSpam!?I?X1S(2ENoSpam@NoSpam38.?G\64(OL#$#;!=NoSpam@NoSpamMP"V";`T+A-9'S!'"$`6-YCL*$ M87JBCNoSpam@NoSpam+.962!D7$#NoSpam@NoSpam75F`-!-`K\TTA2P,B)=DISIE*IU$;#M/3%S.R*<`6M' M829F&7_%? Y$2V%$4D4*A14Q`NoSpam@NoSpam"P4 ```P`0$ `````#`!$0`````$ `!S!NoSpam@NoSpam IK7!7 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:33:31 -0700 From: "Dennis M. Boyce" Subject: BMW: First Gear Kilimanjaro Several prezzes have asked about the FG Kilimanjaro. I own the jacket and pants. The jacket is okay between 25 (with polartec and electric vest) and 70 F; the pants between 30 and about 55 F. The thinsulate in the pants makes them too warm, especially when worn over street pants. I haven't found anything yet to wear for protective pants so go without. For the hot weather, I wear a Vanson perforated leather jacket. It is okay to about 95 or 100 degrees, AS LONG AS I'M MOVING. It breathes really well and keeps me as comfortable on the R11RT as I think is possible. I have to move around some to get the airflow working, but I refuse to ride without protective gear, including helmet, gloves, boots, etc. (OOPS, hope that doesn't restart another dead thread). I did make a concession to warm weather comfort with a 3/4 HJC helmet instead of the Shoei RF700. I tried the perforated First Gear jacket, but it did almost nothing as far as cooling goes. Hope this helps, even though it seems to repeat others' information. I'd also like to thank everyone who welcomed me to the club. Hope to meet everyone at some time or other. Dennis Boyce "BOXXER" dboyceNoSpam@NoSpamerols.com From Richard Moore <"richmorNoSpam@NoSpamworldnet.att.netNoSpam@NoSpamworldnet"NoSpam@NoSpamatt.net> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:42:35 -0500 From: Richard Moore <"richmorNoSpam@NoSpamworldnet.att.netNoSpam@NoSpamworldnet"NoSpam@NoSpamatt.net> Subject: Re: BMW: Does the Darien "Flap"?. Harris_Gary/ny_technologyNoSpam@NoSpamexplorer.siny.com wrote: > > I'm about to order a Darien (I know, I know....I waited to the last > minute). But, before I do, would a Darien owner/wearer please tell me > whether any parts of the jacket or pants "flap" in the wind while > riding due to it's "loose-fit"? If this is the case, I 'd rather wear leather. > > Thanx! > > Gary - NYC Gary: My darien does not flap at all on my faired bike, a BMW K75RT, but on an unfaired bike it flaps quite a bit. It is impossible for me to get the neck fastner wich is made of velcro tight enough to not flap when riding my Triumph. The Darien also catches a lot of wind, and I look and feel like the Michelin man. If you ride a faired bike, the Darien will work very well. It is much easier to clean than leather, and offers protection in wet weather. Just throw it in in the machine and hang to dry over night, it comes out looking like new. On a recent trip I caught a lot of bugs to the body. It would have been a pain to clean them off leather. I just threw the 'stich in the washer. No bugs. You might ask Rider Wearhouse about their current shipping situation. Mine was delivered via UPS. Good luck, Richard Moore Midland, TX '95 K75RT '96 Triumph Tiger '95 DR350 ------------------------------ From Jeff Dunkle From: Jeff Dunkle Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:25:28 +0000 Subject: Re: BMW: Does the Darien "Flap"?. Gary, Iron Butt, Harris asked: >I'm about to order a Darien (I know, I know....I waited to the last >minute). But, before I do, would a Darien owner/wearer please tell me >whether any parts of the jacket or pants "flap" in the wind while >riding due to it's "loose-fit"? If this is the case, I 'd rather wear leather. I've got about 30K miles on my Darien jacket and pants in the last year and a half, some of the time behind a full fairing, most behind a simple BMW K bike windshield. I haven't had a "flapping" problem as your question infers, but there are some smal l things I've noticed. The pants will flap a bit if you vent them by having the cuffs snapped and unzip up the calf a bit to let air in on warm days. When riding my windshield only K75 I sometimes stand on the pegs to get circulation going in my legs and butt. The wind will go up under the jacket and lift it up high enough to make the back of the jacket flap when I sit down until I reach back and pull it back over my rear. Cinching the waist velcro straps minimize this. Relative to the upcoming IB run, DO have fleece liners for the Darien. This gear by itself is not warm. I just crossed the Cascades westbound two weeks ago. On the east side of the mountains in mid state Washington the temperature was a swealtering 97 degrees. Within 20 minutes I was freezing on getting above the snow line. I had to stop and add two layers under my gear to make it the next 120 miles. A few more degrees and I would have fired up my Widder stuff. The same thing happend last year riding over the Colorado Rockies at midnight in late June. The other side of this is that the Darien jacket, vented, is tolearble to about 95 degrees. The pants start to get almost too hot about 90. Ice in the outside pockets, wet tee shirts, and all those other tricks folks use all help to make the jacket tolerable to around 100 or so. Good luck on the IB!!! Jeff Dunkle Monroeville, PA 412-374-1231 BOOF #17, K-whiner #41, SoD #8 Pres. Four Winds BMW Riders '81BMW R100 "The Black" Pittsburgh, PA '86 BMW K75 "Shadow" ABC, MOA, RA, BMWBMW, RBR Treasurer - BMW MOA From Richard Bernecker Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:08:30 -0400 From: Richard Bernecker Subject: Re: BMW: Discount protective clothing? At 12:54 AM 8/13/97 +0000, Jeff Dunkle wrote: > >Ben White asked: > >>Any of you Presidents know of a source for protective clothing, helmets, etc. >>at really deep discounts? Or, am I dreaming? TIA > >One possible source is Aerostich returns. They substantially discount >articles that have come back for what ever reason, e.g. alterations that >didn't work out right. They will not "hold" your request and call you when >they get something your size, that would be coutner-productive to sales. >But they don't seem to have a problem with calls every other week or so to >see what came back that might fit you. FWIW... When I called to try to buy a RoadCrafter, the phone operator insisted that they had nothing pre-made in my size (48 Regular) in their regular stock. I mumbled long enuf about hearing that they had a "returned items" inventory for her to finally put me on hold to go and check to see if this was true... The result? I got a Roadcrafter, brand-new and in my size, for US$440. It had been made for someone in an unpopular color scheme (black-on- black) and had been sitting on the return shelf for a year due to the purchaser backing out of the deal before shipment. The delta between new and "returned" was $300.00, and the damn thing had never even been worn! :-) The moral of the story? Ya gotta ask, or they won't check.... In my case, the phone operator didn't even know that this was an option... ======================================================= Richard "VI,CE" Bernecker SoD #1, BOOF #84, NOT #7 Elizabeth City, NC, USoA rbernieNoSpam@NoSpamecsu.campus.mci.net "What's the use of having luck if you don't use it?" ======================================================= From Mark Parker Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 05:03:21 -0700 From: Mark Parker Subject: BMW: Cordura Pants Karl Juul wrote: > I would like to find Cordura pants w/o a waterproof coating, w/o > insulation, w/o Goretex, w/o a huge price tag.... > > Just something that's abrasion resistant and NOT particularly wind-proof > for summer use (to even use over slacks for the daily commute.) > You might want to take a look at snowboarding gear. Some of it meets your criteia. It is designed to be worn over pants or polyfleece. It often goes on sale at the end of the ski/snowboard season. I bought a pair for my S.O. and she has been happy with them. Disclaimer: Don't expect equivalent protection to a 'Stich or leather. Regards Mark Parker Sacramento, CA '96 R1100GS From BenByronNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 08:44:32 -0400 (EDT) From: BenByronNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Subject: BMW: Cordura pants Karl Juul & others, Check the LL BEan catalogue for hunters and outdoorsmen. They have a world of stuff that is for rugged outdoor use. Best ralph robertson From Fran.Lawas-GrodekNoSpam@NoSpamlerc.nasa.gov (Fran Lawas-Grodek) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 06:39:11 -0400 From: Fran.Lawas-GrodekNoSpam@NoSpamlerc.nasa.gov (Fran Lawas-Grodek) Subject: Re: BMW: Alternative boots.. On Aug 25, 18:59, bmwdougNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com (bmwdougNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com) wrote: > > Don, another source is the Rocky Boot factory store in Nelsonville, Oh. > I bought Goretex, uninsulated (hard to find) leather and cordura boots > and have been using them for 3 years with excellent results. Best of all, > they are cheaper at the factory. I'll second that on Rocky Boots. Even tho' I've only been using them for 1 year, these Rocky Cornstalkers (???) are very warm & waterproof. Holding up well. Rode them through a record-breaking downpour. Gortex, 600 grams Thinsulate, leather uppers, 1st production at $100 US. Very very comfortable as they were made for hunters who have to hike but sit in one spot for long periods of time. But I didn't buy it at the factory -- found a better deal at a little ma (no pa, she's divorced) outdoor gear shop nearby. The same boot at the factory, an inferior 2nd tho', cost $130! There is a slight mark-up even at the factory ... Fran L-G Cleveland OH USA franNoSpam@NoSpamlerc.nasa.gov From victorNoSpam@NoSpamcats.ucsc.edu (Victor M. Kimura) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:51:22 +0900 From: victorNoSpam@NoSpamcats.ucsc.edu (Victor M. Kimura) Subject: BMW: Electric riding clothes This email message was forwarded to a friend of mine who belongs to a Gold Wing list. Victor ********************************************************************* I use a full suit Gerbings, it works fine but before you buy consider that: 1. Gordon Gerbing and his staff NEVER tell the truth about delivery time. They promise and do not stand behind their own promises. If you order today, you may get it when it is already very cold, so make sure to find a way to ensure on time shipping. 2. when you get your suit from them it will stink of cigarettes. The degree of that smell is so high that it took almost a month to get rid of. I spoke to Gordon about it, he did not seem to care too much, however he did not deny the charges. 3. The suit is not a rain suit, so you need on top of it a faily big rainsuit when riding in the rain. It seems to me that not only that it does not reppel the water, it even absorb it more than a regular coat. - - --------------------------------------- If you can live with the comments above, the product itself is good, the heat is well distributed and they are very nice on the phone. The gloves however, are not as good as the widder's imho. I use Gerbings suit with Widders gloves, a special wiring was needed for that because there is a difference in voltage, and they (Gerbing) did it for me. From kenneth=20i=20gluckman%ccmail#%forwarderNoSpam@NoSpamchrysler.geis.com Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 13:11:00 GMT From: kenneth=20i=20gluckman%ccmail#%forwarderNoSpam@NoSpamchrysler.geis.com Subject: BMW: Cruiser Clothes My wife just purchased some of the new clothing that BMW has come out with to go with the Cruiser. It is very attractive, very well designed and very expensive (you're surprised about that?). I think the name is Maverick, but in any event it looks like a black denim jacket and black denim jeans. And that is really what it looks like. It appears at a quick glance to be just a set of Levi's. But it is much more. The pants have very effective-appearing pads in the knees (thick, dense, yet flexible) and the jacket has similar padding in the elbows and shoulders and a pad can be added for the spine. The material, while looking like denim, is much tougher feeling. The jacket and pants can be zipped together easily, reducing the exposure from a gap at the waist in an accident. Even with the extra padding, the outfit does not look bulky. It is also trimmed with leather and is very attractive. The one thing it lacks is ventilation. While you can unzip the cuffs a bit to get some air in, there really is no provision for significant ventilation, so the outfit will not be comfortable in warm weather. Carol wore it last Saturday and was okay in the afternoon when the temperature was in the 70's and it was partly cloudy, but it would not be good at a much warmer temperature. Carol doesn't have a Cruiser but the outfit seems to work OK on the R1100R she just got. But she'd really look great in it on a Cruiser rolling slowly through town! All in all, it is a very attractive outfit offering what appears to be very good protection in a stylish package. It is not good for all weather conditions, but on the right day it would be comfortable. And the price? About $900!!! Oh well... Ken Gluckman gluckmanNoSpam@NoSpamchrysler.geis.com From EXLAXATCNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:18:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: BMW: Aerostich comes through again! Several Presidents have posted stories about the superb customer service afforded by the Riderwearhouse. Andy's bunch just outdid themselves in my book. Last August (96) I bought a red 2-piece Roadcrafter (not my first color choice). The suit arrived as promised, fit perfect and life was good. About 6 months ago I noticed that the upper half (the jacket) was beginning to fade. I just figured "That's what I get for buying red." Except the pants still looked brand new and the jacket kept getting worse, MUCH WORSE! A couple of months ago I was on the phone with Aerostich (ordering things) and mentioned the jacket in passing. They said that they would like to see the jacket for "evaluation". I decided to send the jacket in the 15th of August. A few days later I called to see if the jacket had arrived. I was told that "Yes, it's here and yes they will replace it FREE!" We then started discussing the particulars and color came up. They said if I wanted to change color to send in my pants and they would "evaluate" them for condition. To make a long story short (and simple) my brand new grey/black 2-piece Roadcrafter is enroute and the total cost to me was....$50.00 for the new pants! In an age of shoddy workmanship and companies who refuse to stand behind their product The Riderwearhouse deserves all the business we can send their way! If you own a red Roadcrafter (or Darien) that is fading, Riderwearhouse would like to have it back. The got a bad batch of fabric from Dupont and are trying to make a case against them. Steve Heywood AMA#417841 MOA#71886 RA#21291 IOC#668 GOB#11 Pinole, CA R1100RTL From Mark Flynn Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 15:45:33 -0400 Subject: BMW: Vanson Jacket Ted, Saw your BMW Post asking about Vanson Jackets. 2 thoughts. 1. In my racing days, mid-'80s, Vanson was regarded as one of the best for slip-sliding down the track. Also, the company would repair arms, legs of the suits (not the rider) for a decent price. 2. This summer, I've been wearing a Vanson Breeze (think that's what it's called), the one that is an all-perforated jacket. It is really one of man's better inventions, ranking up there w/the wheel, touch-tone phones and the R259 engine. I had an HG Californicate II. That was better than a T-Shirt, but probably mostly served to make me feel less guilty. The leather was thin enough to be cut out for emergency condoms. The Vanson is much cooler (70 degree night, need an inner jacket). The leather is racing thickness. So, I'm impressed w/the company & the jacket. - -- Mark Flynn Winchester, VA From Frank Glamser Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:03:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: BMW: Re: Boost Jacket vs. Tourmaster Cortech In an extended, heavy rain the Cortech leaks in the stomach area. In my case this is a large problem ;-). Liberal amounts of Wal-mart seam-sealer applied to every seam near the front zipper solved the problem. I suggest you do this at home before your trip. Motel rooms are not a "well ventilated area." Frank Glamser "There are old motorcyclists, and there are Hattiesburg, Mississippi bold motorcyclists, but there very few old, '92 K75RT BMW RoM bold ones." From "Jeffrey Harth" Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:46:20 -0400 Subject: BMW: Re: Petite Riding Suit Hey Jack, My SO is a size 2-4 petite. She really likes the Nevada Touring Pants (leather). I think they are made by Fieldsheer but I may be wrong. We wear leather pants and Kilamanjaro jackets. Very cool in Europe, just catching on here in the US. Good Luck. Jeff Harth Philly From "Max C. McHatton" Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:43:25 -0700 Subject: BMW: Hot weather riding solution My fellow Pez's, I finaly got around to utilizing an idea I had last year. I made a cooling system for me. I mounted a 12vdc windshield washer pump to a small ice-chest. Using 1/4" surgical tubing (about 46' in all), the pump circulates ice-water from the ice-chest through about 40' of tubing attached to a mesh shirt. I installed quick disconnects on the shirts tubing. I insulated the tubing that runs between the shirt and the ice-chest that I bungie to my rear rack. The pump is plugged into a switched outlet that is also used for electric clothing. It works quite well, and only requires occasionaly adding ice to the ice-chest to keep cool on those hot days. Max From David Brick Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: BMW: Darien update Stephen, Your Darien v. Kalahari essay has been a great help in my shopping. While I loved how the K felt, I ended up with the Darien because of its better hot-weather capability; I felt apprehensive about having to wear the K liner for waterproofness when it rains. (Too, I am tired of only *hearing* about how wonderful the Aerostichers are to deal with. I want some too!) I resisted the Darien's liner, seemed too expensive ($100 *more* than a fleece jacket, even from them) and I wanted electric heating. And didn't want to carry another garment. Last month, I bought my sweetie a heated underjacket fromf Gerbing's...and I discovered tonight that it zips right into the Darien: same zipper size, same length. A quick trip to the sewing store for wrist snaps, and I'm gonna be in business. - -David __________________________________________________________________________ David Brick Santa Cruz CA dbrickNoSpam@NoSpamarmory.com 96 BMW R11RSL RA MOA BOOF etc From Bob DeHaney <100013.413NoSpam@NoSpamcompuserve.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:18:14 -0400 Subject: BMW: BMW Boots These boots were rated the best in the Touring Fahrer Magazine. Looking at the soles, they are probably made by Alpine Star, I think they're Italian. The reason that they are so expensive is that they are fully lined with Goretex and guaranteed leak proof for two years. It's not just the roundrel, as they also have quite a bit of internal protective stuff for your ankles and shins. They are (in Germany) competitively priced with other Goretex lined boots. The Hein Gericke boots are not considered waterproof at all. Bob in Munich '94 K1100RS From "Darryl Richman (Exchange)" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:04:09 -0700 Subject: RE: BMW: What boots to buy? > > $299 for a pair of boots? Even for BMW this seems excessive. > Oh, wait a minute, does wearing non-BMW apparel when riding void > the warranty? Mark, in spite of your sarcastic response, the BMW Gore Tex boots are excellent, and IMHO, are worth the very high price if you need an all weather boot. Living, as I do, in the great Pacific NorthWET, I need versatile boots that are completely waterproof. When I lived in LA, any boot was fine for weather protection, but hassling with Totes is just not what I want to do up here. The BMW boots have never let me down, not even riding 8 hours down I-5 in pouring rain. They are lightweight, yet have armor in key areas. They are comfortable enough that I wear mine just about every day, for every task. I've been day hiking in them. There are no straps, and they are fast to get on and off with a single high quality zipper. I would buy cheaper if I could find similar characteristics in a less expensive boot, but I haven't seen it yet. I'm on my second pair, though I alternate days with the first pair. I ride all year, rain or shine, and wear the boots at the office. (For reference, I've put 76k miles on my R11RS in the last 3.5 years.) The soles on the first pair are just about worn away and I need to see if they can be resoled (they are glued on, not stitched; they are not intended to be resoleable). --Darryl Richman Writing from the Emerald City in the Greyt Pacific NorthWet 1994 BMW R1100RSA "Wunderrad" AMA BMWMOA BMWRA 1975 BMW R90S silver-smoke 1961 BMW R60/2 "Sleek Black Beauty" IOC VBMWMO WSBMWR From Richard Bernecker Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:48:51 -0400 Subject: RE: BMW: What boots to buy? At 02:00 PM 9/17/97 -0300, Richard Ward wrote: > >Buy the BMW Goretex boots or Alpine Stars ?? Goretex boots. Waterproof ( >ask me how I know ) and comfortable. For walking around rally grounds >bring some shoes/sneakers. I bought the BMW boots, since they were virtually the same cost (after dealer discount)as the Alpinestars and Fieldsheer Rangers, but had a better warranty support network then either. :-) I love 'em. Have lived in 'em for weeks at a time, and never found myself wishing I had any other walking shoes packed... ======================================================= Richard "VI,CE" Bernecker SoD #1, BOOF #84, NOT #7 Elizabeth City, NC, USoA rbernieNoSpam@NoSpamecsu.campus.mci.net From David Rivers Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:20:53 -0700 Subject: Re: BMW: the eternal aerostich questions At 1:21 PM -0700 9/17/97, Scott Lee wrote: > For southern california, is the Darien the way to go, due to HOT >summer snip-a-de-do-dah-snip-a-dee-day > Or should I get the Roadcrafter 2 piece? > Or 1 piece? > > Or just give up and stick with my almost dead leather jacket? > > Scott Lee > Indecisive in L.A. > NOT #e > Sorry about bringing up this thread again, but... Hi Scott, I live in the (admittedly mild) San Francisco Bay Area and own the full Darrien setup (jacket, pants, fleece top and bottoms). However, I do a lot of my riding through the hot Central Valley en route to the cool Sierra. I ride all year and get a big kick out of riding in weather other riders (non Beemer people) would think is stupid. When it is very hot I wear Cool Max(tm) bicycle shorts, tee shirt and socks and a "Cool Tie" neck wrap under my Darrien. I use a Camel Bak in my tank bag to stay hydrated en route. I keep a separate water bottle handy to soak my tee shirt en route. This setup kept me happy while I rode to the Top O' the Rockies in Colorado this July and a 1K/1Day I did earlier this year. It was HOT in the Nevada/Utah desert! I have a "Unobtainium" electric vest for the cold. The fleece liners keep me happy in most cold weather but I would like to get Gerbing electrics (jacket and pants liners) for when it is REALLY cold. IMHO, the Darrien is well suited to all year riding. I like the venting and layering capability and the fact that I don't need a separate rain suit. If you get one, make sure you order it roomy enough for layering. Several friends have the Roadcrafter one and two piece setups and they like them very much. The problem I see with the Roadcrafter is the zipper leaks in the crotch after prolonged soakings. The cool thing I see with the one piece Roadcrafter is the quick donning/doffing, plus it looks cool. IMO, this makes the one piece perfect for commuting, particularly behind a fairing. The two piece has the versatility of separate top and bottoms but still suffers the "soaked boys" problem. Lastly, as has been reported here many times, the Aerostich people are always a joy to do business with. So there you have it. One man's opinion. Good luck with whatever you do. David Rivers, Moraga, CA R11RT, CCBR, IBMWR, IBA, MOA IAFF local 55, ACFD, Irregular guy From "Kenton A. Hoover" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:08:20 -0700 Subject: Re: BMW: What boots to buy? > I am sure this a thread that has worked itself to death a hundred times, but > I either missed it or was not on the site. Please be kind to an elder heavy > set fellow Prezz. > I want to purchase a pair of riding boots that are comfortable to walk in all > day. I want them to be roughly 6" high to cover the ankles, perferably slip > on rather then lace. I don't want them to squeeze my calfs, trust me, they > are big. Velcro acceptable or zippers. > Local guru insists that the BMW boot Gortex- at $299.00 is the best all round > long wearing comfortable for walking and riding that will last a long time. I > sure would like to find something a lot less expensive and put the money into > an exhaust system or something else for the bike, like a trip to Florida. On > the other hand I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish. I don't want > to buy a cheaper boot now and then find myself dis-satisfied later and then > have to re-purchase. Any thoughts or personal experiences would be > appreciated. My main suggestion would be to make sure that whatever books you get can be resoled. You're likely to destory the bottoms long before you work through the uppers, especally if you have bad habits like dragging toes or heels. This leaves out the BMW boots, btw. If you aren't sure whether they can be resoled, make sure you can exchange/return them, and go to a high quality boot repair shop (western togs stores can often help you out here) and have them tell you. I got a set of the BMW Gore-Tex boots used ($125), they were so/so. I had a set of Hein Gericke full-height boots that lasted me three years and were very workable (still usable, I just wanted something with armor in it). My current boots are Daytona boots from Hell, a little under knee high, steel toes, plus steel tips on the boots, etc. Very Road Warrior looking, but the zippers are a bitch. I don't recommend them unless you are trying to solve the problem I was. If you are on a budget, just pick up a set of mechanics boots at your local leatherman supply shop. They tend to be very workable, use good stiff US leather and don't cost all that much. | Kenton A. Hoover Network Team Project Manager | shibumiNoSpam@NoSpamcisco.com | | Engineering Computer Services | | | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1 408 526 5249 | |===================== http://www.shockwave.com/~shibumi ====================| | Cheap box of ex-pig / Do people really score it / and put cloves in it? | | -- Yet Another Spam Haiku -- | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:18:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "James M. Dodmead" Subject: BMW: Other News, the Saga Continues Todd, sorry to hear that your wrist is causing you problems. Don't hurt yourself trying to make it, aint worth it. But, if you can make it safe, probably be a good time. I see that you have the Saturday 3-6 (1500-1800) watch in the Beer Tent. I should be able to make that, barring any cutoffs and/or deer. So I'll be there guarding the keg for the other Prezzes, in your stead. Hope to see you late or otherwise. Ride safe. Best, Jim James M. Dodmead (Jim) Network Engineering and dodmeadNoSpam@NoSpamnetsww.com Technical Services (NETS), Inc. V 301.854.4945 14825 Burntwoods Road F 410.489.7508 Glenwood, MD 21738 USA From Alex Jomarron Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:05:59 +0000 Subject: BMW: These boots were made for walking........ Having just purchased a HG Kilimanjaro pant and jacket combo, my search escalated to getting Goretex boots. After all, I had bought the suit in order to save space packing a rain suit and time by not having to stop to don or remove the rainsuit.It does not make sense to buy this all weather stuff if you still have to stop and change. I bought REI Goretex overmitts and my objective became, when the drops fell, to stop for a moment put those gloves on, and ride! Hmmmm, what kind of boots. In my closet rested a pair of Bates Fast Lanes. Very comfortable, but porous. Besides, they only ride with the V Pilot ensemble. After looking at several different makes of boots, I settled on a pair of Nike Goretex Hiking boots for $120. These boots have proven to remain dry, PLUS I can actually walk distances with them, in addition to hiking. I saved more room by not having to pack street/trail shoes. Riding wise, it took little time to get comfortable with shifting and braking. If you are into hiking while on tour, I highly recommend you consider this viable possibility. BTW, HiTech makes a Black pair of Goretex Hiking Boots for you fashionably conscious riders! Alex Jomarron Oak Park, IL 88 K75S From "Stan" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:51:48 -0400 Subject: Re: BMW: What boots to buy? Well, I'm going to sound like the original cheapie..... I bought a pair of $19.99 "Rugged Outback" boots from the local mall's Payless Shoe Store. They aren't lined, aren't fancy looking (similar to leather hiking boots), but are fairly comfortable for both walking, and riding. Spent 8 days in them this summer with no complaints (7 of those 8 days we got rained on). Lets see now....299.99 for the BMW entry....divided by 19.99.....looks like I can buy a lifetime supply and have a few 6-packs to wet my whistle with too!!! The way I figure, at 19.99 per pair, I can afford to throw them away if I step in something gooey!!! Or melt them on the exhaust!!! Or if they start to smell!!!! Stan Walker R1100RT "the Blue Sneak" think less.....lean more..... From BMWgsRiderNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: BMW: Re: Das Boots >> - - --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: BMW: RE: Boots Date: 97-09-17 17:39:29 EDT From: Tymek To: jfbrownNoSpam@NoSpamccgate.hac.com Has any one any comment on the Combat Touring Boots aerotstich sells? - ------------------------------<< I've a pair of Fieldsheer Ranger boots - they are extremely comfortable (right out of the box), have shin, ankle and shift lever protectors and have a pseudo-GORTEX liner, Sympatex, which supposedly make them waterproof- but breathable. Haven't worn them in anything other than light drizzle for a few hours so I can't verify the water-tight nature of the material, but they do breath well and the soft leather and plaible sole makes walking in them easy as in a normal pair of shoes. On the down side, the sole is fairly smooth with a number of projections which give some traction, but I found them to be "slippery" when I stop and put my foot down on gravel or dirt. I may be overly sensitive about this due to my aversion to dropping the bike and because of my previous long-term experience riding with hiking bootswhich have Vibram lug soles- they don't slip in dirt and gravel. Ira Haskell R1100gsa Lake Forest, California From afkjvNoSpam@NoSpamUAA.ALASKA.EDU Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:28:06 -0800 Subject: Re: BMW: Combat Touring Boots On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 Harris_Gary/ny_technologyNoSpam@NoSpamexplorer.siny.com wrote: > >Has any one any comment on the Combat Touring Boots aerotstich sells? > > They're GREAT!! They were the *only* thing I wore on my feet during > the Iron Butt. These things are built to last! After breakin (about 2 > - 3 days or 2500 miles), they become soft and flexible. Very rugged > and sturdy. I put in a Dr Scholl cushion insert to increase walking > comfort, which is very good. They may be a little tall and a little > warm on hot days, tho. > > The speed lace system provides for easy on and off. > > Order the water-resistant/softening cream that Aerostich sells and > apply two or three coats. This will make them reasonably water-proof. > During a 15 minute New Mexico downpour, my feet stayed dry. > > I highly recommend them. I agree 100%. I've been wearing a pair regularly for the past 3 or 4 years (including 2 trips across the continent). Luv 'em. Kit Vercella From "Terry Smith" Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:00:48 +0000 Subject: Re: BMW: the eternal aerostich questions Sorry, I missed the original question, but Steve's answer prompts a "me too" > Single piece 'stitch. Because it me to wear proper leg > protection. That's the same reason I bought the one-piece. > > Hot weather; Under the Aerostitch I wear shorts and a tee. LLBean hiking > boots (because now most of 'em have Goretex). Dry feet, comfy boots, and > , best of all they're reasonably priced compared to MC boots. > I wore my suit every day on a recent trip out west which included several days in the southwest at temps around 100 deg. In very hot weather take a long sleeve t-shirt and cotton pants, soak them, put them on, put on the suit and close all the vents. The evaporative cooling should keep you comfortable for 2-3 hours. I believe that I was more comfortable doing the soak down thing than I would have been had I been wearing just the shirt and pants without the suit. With the 'Stitch you're protected from the sun and hot wind. > Cold wx; heated jacket under the 'stitch. Jeans. BMW riding boots. Ditto, 'cept I wear Rocky Eliminator's. Very comfortable and quite toasty. ______________________________ Terry Smith IBMWR, BMWMOA Woods Hole, MA ROOTS #2 tsmith2NoSpam@NoSpamwhsun1.wh.whoi.edu '96 R1100RT,'84 R100RS ________________________________ From Mark Flynn Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:37:35 -0400 Subject: BMW: Heated Vests Last year, after years of Widders (great, sturdy product, good manufacturer support) I bought a Gerbrings electric jacket liner. Much better, still packs down very small, but much warmer. I ride an R11RS, so my shoulders are out in the breeze. - -- Mark Flynn Winchester, VA From Fran.Lawas-GrodekNoSpam@NoSpamlerc.nasa.gov (Fran Lawas-Grodek) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:02:00 -0400 Subject: Re: BMW: Heated Vests??? On Sep 22, 22:37, Mark A Crowder (markcrowderNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com) wrote: > > > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:34:16 -0400 MCFADDEN > writes: > > > >Ok I want to by a heated vest. > >BMW or Widder Which is best? > >I prefer a collar and thermostat. The north east is seeing the end of > >summer and I still want to ride!!!!!! > >Thank's > >Jerry > > Jerry, > I think Widder makes the BMW vest. I have two > Widder's -- one with the collar, and one without. Which one > I use, depends on how much room there is around the collar > of the jacket I'm wearing. > > Mark Crowder Garland, TX markcrowderNoSpam@NoSpamjuno.com > We're the ones your mother warned you about >-- End of excerpt from Mark A Crowder Eclipse makes the BMW vest. I have both an old Widder with collar & Gerbing non-quilted jacket liner, my favorite is the Gerbing -- was still getting cold with just the vest. Speaking of which, it got Cold! on Sunday nite coming home from the RA rally, and unfortunately the Gerbing blew my in-line fuse on the accessory plug, must've been in one of those small towns & forgot to turn it down. Can't get too greedy for electrical warmth on the old R bikes unless you're at a constant 5000 rpm :-( Fran L-G Cleveland OH USA franNoSpam@NoSpamlerc.nasa.gov From afkjvNoSpam@NoSpamUAA.ALASKA.EDU Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:18:15 -0800 Subject: Re: BMW: Heated Vests??? On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Mark A Crowder wrote: > > > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:34:16 -0400 MCFADDEN > writes: > > > >Ok I want to by a heated vest. > >BMW or Widder Which is best? > >I prefer a collar and thermostat. The north east is seeing the end of > >summer and I still want to ride!!!!!! > >Thank's > >Jerry Jerry, For your consideration....there's a new vest available in N. America from Steve Attwood (of Iron Butt fame)in the UK under the name of Chilli Heated Vest. For info, contact Sargent's Cycle Products at 1-800-749-7328. BTW, it does not have a collar. Kit V. Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:14:24 -0400 From: Brian Curry Subject: Re: BMW: Heated Vests??? At 11:02 AM 9/23/97 -0400, Fran Lawas-Grodek wrote: Big snip on what electric vest to use. >Eclipse makes the BMW vest. Not for the last year or so. BMWNA, now sources them from Widder. IMO based on inspection of the innards of two Eclipse/BMW units it is due to failures due to the heating wire opening. The wire is real fine, and IMO, tends to break easily. There are two parrallel circuits in the vest. Both had breaks. Different spots in each vest. Based on posts here, I suspect that BMWNA did not renew the contract with Eclipse because of failures. The Widder failure/loss of heat rate is much lower. I have both an old Widder with collar & Gerbing >non-quilted jacket liner, my favorite is the Gerbing -- was still getting cold >with just the vest. IMO, the Gerbing has more even heat than the Widder. But both will keep you warmer than nothing. Speaking of which, it got Cold! on Sunday nite coming home >from the RA rally, and unfortunately the Gerbing blew my in-line fuse on the >accessory plug, must've been in one of those small towns & forgot to turn it >down. This does not make sense. I suspect something else. At lower voltage, the current drops. Look for a short somewhere. And with real cold coming failures will be worse. :(:( Can't get too greedy for electrical warmth on the old R bikes unless >you're at a constant 5000 rpm :-( Once you hit 3000 rpm, the R bike alternator is putting out all it can. The output is constant above that speed. And the alternator output is 2/3 of the rated output at 2000 rpm. It is amazing what you can find in the manufacturer's tech manuals and sheets. :):):) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | "Without data, you're just another opinion." | | -Jim Clarke (Manager, engine controls Ford Motor Co.) | | | | Brian Curry, 1990 Blue K75RTs both coasts, Chester Springs, PA | | The 9.25 cents a minute guy, USA SoD #23 | | | | KGN- Improving Lives Around The World | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:42:41 -0400 From: largiaderNoSpam@NoSpamworldlynx.net (Largiader, Anton) Subject: BMW: Re: ride to canada / cold weather advice IMO, in 35 ~ 40 degree weather you will absolutely want electrics. Vest alone will do if you have good insulation underneath, but a jacket is better. At 35 degrees, I wear (underneath a one-piece roadcrafter): top: polypropylene long johns and electric vest under 300wt polar fleece bottom: polypro long johns, sweats, thick socks and BMW boots. This setup is marginally acceptable for tank-to-tank riding at 35 degrees. I use thick gloves with heated grips; at and below freezing heated gloves are an unbelievable comfort enhancement. Do not underestimate how cold and painful your hands can get if they are in the wind! On the R850 you can add quite a bit of electrics and still be OK. Make the splitter yourself if you need to. Anton Largiader, Chester Springs, PA Astral Blue '94 K75 BMWBMW, IBMWR, BMWMOA, NMA, K-Whiner #45, and probably more... "I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead " - Jimmy Buffett lyric > I'll riding to Canada, mainly to Montreal and Toronto in the > 4th week of October from New York City. I'm looking for interesting routes > and advice on cold weather gear. I'm told that the temperature should be in > the 35 - 40 degree range. > > I have absolutely no cold weather riding experience. Except for freezing > once in a downpour in 50 degree weather without even a jacket and suffering > it for an hour - I was too stupid to realize that all I had to do was > pull over and stop somewhere. Reality for me exists only behind the 21 > inch screen of a workstation. > > I now have a Darien jacket and am buying the Darien pants and the winter > riding gloves from the RiderWearhouse catalogue. Is this enough if I layer > sufficiently ?? Is an electric vest absolutely necessary ?? > > Also, is a line splitting device available so that I can connect multiple > electrical gadgets to the accessory outlet ? And upto how much power can I > safely draw from the accessory outlet without draining from the battery. > > If anybody would like to ride with me I would appreciate the company. I'm > quite fexible on location and time with the following constraints : > Earliest I can leave NYC : 18th Oct > Need to be in Toronto for some work : 22nd noon to 24th evening > Back in NYC latest : 5.00 am on Monday 27th October (gotta go back to work > to pay for the trip) > > Thanks Much, > Vasu > Goodbye '79 R65 - gotta go pick up the '97 R850R - Yipppeeeee !! Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:07:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Franck Subject: BMW: Homemade electric vest Presidents, There has been a lot of talk about buying electric vests. Last year, with the help of people on this list, I was able to make one for less than $20 and 5 hours. I took approx 100 feet of wire (I forget the gauge), doubled it twice. I doubled it to reduce the Hall effect and to shorten then time it takes to make it. The total resistance is about 3 ohms. I passed the bundle of wires up and down every other baffle of my H-G First Gear jacket, sewing down where the wires cross over the baffles. I connected the leads to a standard 120v male wall plug. I clipped the coiled wire from an electric razor, replaced the male wall outlet with a clip on female, attached a BMW acc plug. So. 3 ohms draws about 4 amps from a 12v battery. That equals about 48 watts. The acc fuse is 10 amps on my K75, so I've got plenty of room. I'm toasty for cheap. It worked all last year and I haven't needed it yet in Seattle this year (knock knock knock). If you have any questions, just write me. Most people told me it was too much of a pain in the butt and that it wouldn't work. Most people don't change their own oil. In friendship, Kevin Franck Date: Tue, 30 Sep 97 19:43:10 UT From: "FH Gaylor" Subject: BMW: From Motorcycle Online Daily News 9/30/97 By Motorcycle Online Staff BMW Rally Turns Into Police Action Approximately 2,000 motorcyclists attending the 25th Annual BMW Riders Association International Rally Sept. 18-21 in Fontana Village, North Carolina, were subjected to a massive police presence apparently brought on by unjustified warnings about illegal activity. Officers from several North Carolina agencies took part in the operation that lasted throughout the four-day rally. Those attending the event were subject to constant observation from police patrols and overflights from official helicopters. The roads surrounding the rally site were heavily patrolled, and road blocks were established for license and registration checks. Local sheriff Melvin Howell reportedly told event organizers he had initiated the action after receiving a tip that 14,000 outlaw bikers intended to descend upon the rally site. Despite assurances from rally organizers that the event has a long peaceful history and benefits the local economy, police went ahead with the operation. "We are looking into this matter to determine just what the reason was for such a massive show of force," said Robert Rasor, vice president of AMA government relations. "On the face of it, this action seems ludicrous." for what it's worth Frank Gaylor fhg54nmNoSpam@NoSpammsn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:03:11 -0700 From: Kim Subject: [none] Jan, The works performance shock address is: Works Performance Products, Inc. 21045 Osborne Street Canoga Park, CA 91304 voice: 818-701-1010 fax: 818-701-9043 Their catalog doesn't show an e-mail address. If they have one include it with your letter so they can get back you much faster. A straight service will cost you USD 35 and if you need seals or any repairs it will be extra. I need for example a rod which is only USD 25 extra. You only need to send in the shock with a paper explaining that you need a straight service and any repairs necessary. Give them you credit card number and they'll take care of the rest. If you want them to contact you first, then leave your phone number and have them call you collect(reverse the charges) or via snail mail. Once they get started it's only about a week's time before they send it out. Good luck and the shock should last you a life time with occasional servicing. Kim Rydalch Modesto, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:07:20 -0400 From: William Safford <73760.3533NoSpam@NoSpamcompuserve.com> Subject: Re: BMW: BMW electric vests Ted Manger: > do any prezes have experience with the BMW (or other brands) electric > vests: do they work Yes. Definitely. I have two: the BMW vest, and a Gerbings inner jacket. (The former gets lent to my riding partner more often than not these days.) Wearing one is like wearing an electric blanket while riding. It's a wonderful feeling! What's even better is that they plug right into your bike's accessory socket. > and how bulky are they under a jacket Not terribly so, although you might have trouble if you have a jacket that just barely fits to begin with. It's not been a problem for me with either my Hein Gericke leather jacket or my Aerostitch Roadcrafter suit. > Also if anyone can recommend a glove liner to wear under > my all-season gloves, i'd appreciate it. There is a good chance that you will find that your hands will be warm, once you start wearing an electric vest or jacket. The electric apparel will keep your core temperature at normal levels, so your hands should no longer get cold except on really frigid days. Do you have heated grips? That's another handy item to have. For those *really* cold days (as in 0 to 20 degrees F), I wear Lands' End silk glove liners under my gloves. > Thanks. You're welcome! - --Will Safford Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 10:45:16 -0400 (EDT) From: TMFBikerNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Subject: BMW: Ergonomics >I discovered this after I noticed that I could ride with only >one hand on the handlebar in great comfort (shoulderwise). >Putting the other hand up tightened the back of the suit and >compressed the material under my arms. Anton, You just described the very reason why it took trying on a new Darien and two new Roadcrafters before I finally decided to simply keep my old Roadcrafter. I just couldn't find a size that would not tighten and pull at the insides of my shoulders and under my armpits without fitting too long when zipped together. Aerostich was wonderful throughout the entire process, but aside from a custom Stich ($$$$$) I'll have to work out a little more before I can comfortably fit in a new Roadcrafter ;) ~~~~~~~~~ http://users.aol.com/esquireted/moto.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ted Verrill - EsquireTedNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com - TedVNoSpam@NoSpamFool.com - K1100RS (Zephyr) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 12:09:58 -0500 From: jamesgl Subject: Re: BMW: Gerbing Ultimate Jacket At 07:27 PM 9/23/97 -0400, you wrote: > >I have been watching the debate about lectric clothes. Decided to check out >the Gerbing webb site, this only opened up more questions, has anyone >experience with the Gerbing Ultimate Jacket, in particular how waterproof is >it and how cool is it in warm weather. > >Thanks, >Terry Meek > I bought the ultimate jacket and the ultimate pants combination. I have used them for the last three weeks almost on a daily basis. To answer your questions, first, the jacket and pants are NOT waterproof. They are highly water repellent, but NOT waterproof. I coated the seams with a waterproofing substance that was recommended by gerbings, so I'm reasonably certain that the seams are not leaking. In order to ride for a significant number of hours in a downpour, you should wear a waterproof rainsuit over the top of the gerbings suit. As far as the warmth is concerned, there absolutely can be no superior suit. The thermostat allows for full and continuous regulation of the degree and amount of heat that you require. At 39 degrees F, at a constant 55 miles per hour there is warmth to spare! I have no hot-spots anywhere. With both the gloves, socks, and pants hooked up to the jacket, there is an abundant supply of even heat available. I would suspect that riding in temperatures as low as 22-25 degrees F. would be easily accomplished, although I have not experience weather this cold since I acquired the suit. In warm weather, the jacket becomes uncomfortable for me at about 74-77 degrees Fahrenheit. Note that this is WITHOUT removing the inner electric quilted liner. If you go to the trouble of removing the Velcro liner, it would both likely add 3-7 degrees to the above temperature. I usually ride the motorcycle with the back zipper open. The back zipper goes between your shoulders, and allows the 4 zippered front vents to the much more effective. If the Velcro quilted-liner is removed, the vents become significantly more effective. The ultimate jacket is fairly heavy (in terms of weight) and seems as though it would be very durable. It should survive a road "rash" or at the very least give the occupant a GREAT deal of protection. I HIGHLY recommend getting the thermostat -- I would not think of purchasing or using the suit without it. Please let me know if I can give you any other useful information. Jim James E. Gluckin, M.D. GWRRA = 122900 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 19:34:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Ben1364NoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Subject: BMW: Gear/Rain Suit Idea/Deal Just rec'd a bright yellow breathable nylon rain suit from Lands End that is ideal, I think, and reasonably priced given the legendary L E quality and customer support. I decided to gamble on it even though it isn't advertised for MCs. Some of y'all/youse guys might want to consider it. Call LE at 1(800)356-4444 for details. It comes with stuff pouches and is very compact. Ben White/Biloxi Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 11:57:24 -0400 From: "Ted Hall" Subject: Fw: BMW: Gloves: recommendations? they are out of XL as of 12:00 Saturday the18th t - ---------- > From: Bob Taylor > To: bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com > Subject: Re: BMW: Gloves: recommendations? > Date: Friday, October 17, 1997 10:46 PM > > > Chris Higgins wrote: > >Any recommendations for a good pair of cold-weather riding gloves? > > I used to do technical mountaineering in the Winter, before I moved to the > prairies here in the Midwest. (OK...before I got old and worn out.) > Anyways, I have used arctic-grade technical gloves and mittens from that > sport to good effect as cold-weather riding gloves. > > There's a good deal on such gloves in the Winter 1997 catalog from "Sierra > Trading Post". Just got the catalog today. Black Diamond (that used to be > Yvon Chouinard's company) Gore-Tex "All Conditions" Gloves. Curved hand > design let's you grab a throttle grip or an ice-ax or a climbing rope with > relative ease. Palm is coated with one of the best anti-slip coatings. > Removeable and washable fleece liners. Goretex and Entrant shells. MSRP, > $109. Closeout, at $39.95. > > Anyways, might be worth a look. You can call them at 1-800-713-4534. > > Standard disclaimer: I don't have any connection with Sierra Trading Post. > I have been a satisfied customer. Occasional good deals on Marmot > technical outerwear, Walrus tents, Seattle Sports drybags, MSR stoves, etc. > They will take back anything you order that you don't like (in new > condition). > > Bob > > -------- > Bob Taylor > Director, Academic Technologies > Northwestern University > Evanston, IL 60208 > bob-taylorNoSpam@NoSpamnwu.edu *** 1988 K75S *** BMWMOA, BMW RA, IBMWRA, etc. Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 23:11:17 -0700 From: "Barry P. Blank, Ph.D." Subject: BMW: How do I stay warm in the winter? Jeff, you wrote: > >Hi all, > >I followed the thread on heated vests. That's OK for moderate cold, but I >am considering riding through the winter here in Philly (I've been w/o a >bike for 2 months and am looking to make up time). I think I am looking for >a heated suit liner for under my Kalahari jacket and pants. In addition, >are there gloves made for heated grips - I am thinking thick on the outside >and thin on the inside. Does anyone know of a source? Also, how do I >keep my feet from freezing? Jeff, Everyone has their own system and YMMV - but I can tell you what works for me in a similar winter climate (New York - Long Island). FWIW - I ride with Darien jacket and pants, with their fleece jacket liner and fleece pants liner. Under the pants I wear thermax long johns on top of briefs. Under the jacket I wear a t-shirt and a thermax turtleneck. Electrics_are_essential - and I use a Widder vest and their gloves. At times, I wear one of those triangular wind scarves around my neck. On the feet - heavy wool or polypro/wool blend socks inside of Rockys' insulated (600 gm. thinsulate) goretex leather boots. My hands and feet tend to get cold easily. For the hands I keep the heated grips on with the electric gloves and they never get cold. The feet however, do begin to get cold after about two hours of riding with an outside temperature anywhere near 30 degrees F and below. I have tried sock liners, fleece socks, and neoprene socks. I do not want to use heat packs (too uncomfortable) and am still considering electric socks. My "solution" to date has been a cup of coffee in a warm place :^) - -- Regards, Barry ('95 K75S) Roslyn Heights, New York Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:50:17 -0700 From: Greg Hutchinson Subject: Re: BMW: How do I stay warm in the winter? Jeffrey Harth wrote: > I followed the thread on heated vests. That's OK for moderate cold, but I > am considering riding through the winter here in Philly (I've been w/o a One of my riding suits is a BMW one piece -era about 8 years ago. This is the original City Suit in red with grey leather across the shoulders and thighs.. Anyway, it gets REAL cold going over the Sierras so I had Gerbings sew in a heated liner. His lining goes across the shoulders, down the arms to the elbows, down the back to the waist, and from the waist to the knees. He routed the plug through the left pocket for a very nice installation. He also has electric gloves and full suits. Date: Thu, 03 Jan 1980 23:40:03 From: Larry Fears Subject: BMW: How I stay warm in the colder weather I have been noticing alot of folks asking questions in regards to staying warm now that winter is quickly approaching and I thought I would give everyone a run down of what I do to keep the chill off. To put this in perspective I firmly believe that as long as the streets are clear then temps be damned I'm riding. I've logged thousands of miles below 30 degrees and it is down right awesome. The air is so clear and crisp that your senses are positively popping from the input. As I've said before the coldest I road in was 19 degrees standing still and that was a 750 mile day. So enough with the borderline bragging and on with what I use. :-) Starting from the top down: Under my helmet I use a silk baclava/ski mask looking thingee. Believe it or not the silk does a good job of fending off the cold. The only section that wasn't quite covered was the area on the back of my neck and I solved that with a $4 wool ear muff thingee. I don't know what it is called but it looks like a ski cap with no top. It is designed to be worn over the ears but I slide it down and use it on my neck. If it is really cold I'll top everything off with a long wool scarf wrapped several times around my neck. For the most part though I don't like to feel constricted so I try to avoid this. Torso: I wear a long sleeve t-shirt and my heated Gerbing jacket over that. On top of that I wear my Motorport. I never feel the need for more. Legs: I wear a pair of polartec long under wear. I got this from Aerostich and according to them it is the stuff the Army uses. I've never used the heated chaps mostly because the above works fine for me. Hands: Depending on how cold it is I either use my summer gloves with a pair of liners and the heated grips or when it really gets cold I put on the heated gloves. Feet: I know alot of folks spend hundreds of dollars on boots but I am very hard on boots and never get more than about 1 1/2 seasons out of boots no matter how much I spend on them. So I use a pair of gortex hunting boots that have 200 thinsulate that I got from Cabelas. They have worked great and they were only $89. Under these I wear a good pair of hunting socks also from cabela's. One thing I discovered last year was that overlayering socks can do more harm than good. Better to put on one pair of good socks under the thinsulate. None of the above is overly bulky and using this means I get to enjoy the motorcycling experience when everyone else is sitting in their study merely dreaming of riding. Only about 7 more weeks until the start of the Reindeer Ride part deux. You can believe that while I won't need any of my cold weather gear once I reach Baja, Mexico I will be using it until I get far enough south. :-) Hope this rambling helps answer some of folks questions. Larry Fears lgfcoNoSpam@NoSpamerols.com '93 K1100LTA "Blue Max" '92 Mazda Miata "Half Cage" Gaithersburg, MD Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 22:28:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Shibumi Subject: Re: Vest Problem?(Re: BMW: How do I stay warm in the winter?) At 09:46 PM 10/22/97 -0600, Steve Aikens wrote: >Shibumi wrote: >> >> At 10:10 AM 10/22/97 -0600, Steve Aikens wrote: >> >Shibumi wrote: >> >>......... >> BTW, and although I'm sure you know this, I've found that the $9.00 U.S. >> Balaclava from Riderwearhouse has made all the difference in the world re a >> warm face, head, ears, and neck. Without it, all them parts got waaay cold >> under the Shoei RF 700. > >I've tried Balaclava's. On this helmet, they don't help. In the >summer, I have no complaint. But in winter, all that "free air" I get >is too much. But when the temp's that low, stopping a lot ain't a bad >idea anyway. Righto. But dig this: in her contribution to this cold weather thread, Kim Rydalch includes: "snowmobile neoprene face mask silk full face balaclava" Now then, if you can get Pat Widder to electrify the face mask t'boot and still manage to stuff yer head in the hat, you ought not have any more complaints, except for fallin' asleep. :^) - -John __________________________________________________ John Arnold Village Idiot 83 R65 Lat44.65 Lon-123.9 BOOF# 100 'Gadfly' Central Oregon Coast BALL#1 IBMWR BMWMOA __________________________________________________ who invites us to remember: "Live by the foma that makes you brave and kind and healthy and happy." -Books of Bokonon, 1:5 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:09:24 +0000 From: Jeff Dunkle Subject: Re: BMW: Electrically heated clothes in the rain? Ken Kline asks: >Good and gentle MC colleagues all (well, most) of us facing winter.... > >All this talk about electric clothes... UPS delivers my Gerbings yesterday >and today it drops to the mid-30's . . . and it's raining. Ah...Indiana. > >But seriously... > >What dangers, if any, come from wearing electrically heated clothes in the rain? >(..presuming, of course, that one is also wearing one's normal rain-protective >gear on top). Simple answer is, all that happens is you get wet. I wear a Widder vest and gloves frequently. The vest is under a Darien, so it stays pretty dry......or totally dry really. The gloves have been soaked through several times. There is no danger to you since we're talking low voltages. These items are made to be washed, albeit, gently, so they can tolerate getting wet. Same with the vest. Rain won't hurt you, or the garments. Last year after riding several hundred miles in a cold, driving rain and going thru four pairs of gloves, including my Widders, I was led to engage Pat Widder, who's monitored this list and commented from time to time about his products, in an off line email dialog. He remarked that he often used his gloves in the rain and found that in some circumstances, even though soaked, they managed to keep his hands warm. I took that as the manufacturer himself has no problem getting the gloves he makes getting wet. We w ent on to discuss what it would take to make moisture resistant/proof electrically heated gloves. Turns out you can't use Goretex or analogous material because every needle puncture has to be separately sealed. Gloves are virtully impossible to make with stable electrical wires and Goretex as a result. I use a pair of gloves from a ski shop in cold rains. They're pretty warm...and water resistant until it really rains hard...then they too soak through. Jeff Dunkle Monroeville, PA 412-374-1231 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 11:52:43 -0400 (EDT) From: AUSHLOCHKNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com Subject: Re: BMW: Bare Winter Riding??? I ride a 93 R100GSPD, which classifies as a sans fairing bike, although it does have a winshield on it. I live in Columbus, Ohio and it can get pretty cold here. (Did You watched the world series last night right. Snow in Ohio in October. Ok It's Cleveland but, it's still Ohio) Any how I try to ride all through the winter. I have a Moose Enduro jacket, which is Gore tex, I usally ride with a some thermal underware under that, along with a Patagonia fleece pullover. If it gets really cold I will throw on a Patagonia vest as well. As for the gloves I use Malcolm Smith Racing Cold weather, Gore Tex, riding gloves. Along with the factory heated grips. As for the legs I just use some Patagonia thermal underware and a pair of jeans or flannel lined jeans or Khakis'. Boots I have a really good pair of Patagonia Fleece socks and I use Salomon Hiking boots, really heavy duty boots, intended for like expeditions and high altitude climbing, not your average hiking boot. That's it, nothing fancy, just what works. However I think I am going to ask for a Heated vest for Christmas. I am fairly young so maybe when I get older I will start to get colder! Just a little friendly ribbing from the younger ones, I feel like I am underrepresented on the list. I am 21 and love the sport of motorcycling. If you couldn't tell I also race enduro's on another bike so that is why I use the Moose jacket and the Malcolm Smith Racing Gloves, Just trying to save some money, and they work. BTW I have no affiliation with any of the companies mentioned I just like thier products and think they make fine heavy duty products. Thank you Jeffrey P. Holmes Columbus Ohio 93 R100GSPD 96 Kawasaki KDX200 87 Jeep Wrangler Laredo Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:09:32 -0500 From: RWILES Subject: Re: BMW: Roadger Montana pants: opinions sought bkeaheyNoSpam@NoSpamuswest.com wrote: > > Well? > I have a pair, maybe a year now, used them maybe 30k miles. The leg bottoms' relief-vents (or whatever you call them- the slits that make it big enuff to go over your boots, etc) are velcro. I took mine to the tailor and had her put zippers and gussets in. The stitching in one inner-knee-vent started to unravel- fixed the threads fast with supergule. Other than that, they fit good, are comfortable, cheap and probably a good buy. Oh yeah! the only pockets are two front pockets... and they are waaayyy tooooo looonnngggg! the bottom of the pocket goes down almost to the knee. Easy to fix, tho. - -- ******************************** Prezz RogerRamJet rwilesNoSpam@NoSpamprodigy.net Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 08:55:50 -0600 From: Cissie Myrick Subject: BMW: "SWMBO" Shirts For all you prezzes who are looking for the perfect gift for your SWMBO, the shirt is now available: The WGBH Educational Foundation of St. Paul, MN (of Public Television fame) publishes a gift catalog, where I ran across the ad for the mug, t-shirt, or your choice of two sweatshirts: The sweatshirts are royal purple with large blue-green lettering which says, "SHE Who Must Be Obeyed". Sizes available are M-2XL. Prices are $36.50 for the sweatshirt with knit collar (item #27606), $29.50 for the crew-neck (item #27608); $18.00 for the t-shirt (item #27609), and $7.95 for the mug (item #27596). The mail address is: Signals, WGBH Educational Foundation, P.O. Box 64428, St. Paul, MN 55164-0428. Their order phone is 1-800-669-9696. I called and asked for my own copy of the catalog, and they readily agreed to send me one, but they would be happy to process my order with only the item number and a credit card number. And for the female prezzes, they have another great sweat: a raspberry-red with white lettering that says, "The Rooster Crows, But The Hen Delivers The Goods". Can hardly wait to get mine! ;-) (sorry, I didn't copy the item number for that one.) I have never done business with this company, nor am I in any way connected with them - just saw the catalog and thought I'd pass it along. Ride safely- Cissie Myrick Brownwood, TX '93 K75RT Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 20:58:18 -0600 (CST) From: Frank Glamser Subject: BMW: Tour Master Cortech Report Stephen, Here's the report to add to your jacket evaluation. I've shared it with the list in case anyone is about to buy a jacket for winter. You can delete the comment from me that you already have in the report. Tour Master Cortech Jacket Report I have owned a Tour Master Cortech jacket for about six months. I've ridden about 4,000 miles in the jacket of which about 30 hours have been in the rain. The temperature range experienced was from 35 to 85 on a fully faired bike. The body of the jacket is made of 500 Denier Cordura while the upper chest, upper back, outside shoulders and underside of the sleeves are 1000 Denier. Small reflective triangles are sewn on the shoulders and center back. The lining is mesh. The jacket is pictured in the C.A. and M.A.W. catalogs. Available colors are black, black & red, and black & purple. The style of the jacket is similar to the old Belstaffs. It is longer than many jackets, measuring 31.5 inches down the back in XL. The standup collar is corduroy lined and seals with a velcro strap. The cuffs have a large gusset which allows for generous airflow when opened fully. They are corduroy lined and close tightly with a velcro strap. At the waist in front are two adjustable belts on either side and in back is an internal elastic belt. In cold weather the jacket can be made very snug at the waist, neck, and wrists. There are many generous pockets: Two large cargo pockets in front below the waist, two smaller chest pockets, a small zippered pocket on one cargo pocket (for my earplugs), an inside chest pocket, and a large fanny (American usage not British) pocket across the back with vertical zippers at each end. The front pockets are flapped and velcro secured. Dual density removable armor is found at the shoulders, elbow/forearm, and back. It is firm and generous sized. The two-way front zipper is sturdy and covered with two flaps, the outer one of which is secured with a velcro strip. The flaps are adequate, but just so. Ventilation is via two angled horizontal zippers backed with perforated nylon and a rear overlapping cape across the shoulders backed with mesh. The fabric is coated on the inside, and all seams are taped. The jacket comes with a full length, sleeved thinsulate liner with knit cuffs which zips in easily. STRENGTHS - -Low price relative to features and performance ($200- $250) - -With minor work is fully waterproof and seals well at neck and wrists even in heavy and extended rain(e.g. all day). - -The armor is comfortable and unobtrusive. It is formed perfectly for the shoulders and forearms. - -The cut of the jacket is well-suited to the normal riding position with arms extended. There is no apparent pulling or stiffness. - -The jacket is ideal for cold and foul weather. - -The many adjustment features allow for a wide comfort range without electrics. - - Very sharp looking WEAKNESSES - -The jacket wicks water around the stomach in an extended rain. With the taping and flaps I don't know where it comes from. I saturated ALL the vertical seams in the front associated with the flaps, velcro, and zippers with seam sealer (Do in a motel room for a cheap high). This completely solved the problem. - -The cape vent in the back creates a cool spot across the shoulders in cold weather on a faired bike (wind from behind). - -The pulls on the vent zippers are difficult to operate with gloves. I replaced them with thicker ones with a knot on the end. - -The 1000 Denier Cordura on the sleeves is on the underside rather than the back where it would do more good in a spill. Styling appears to be the culprit. - -The jacket can not be worn in hot weather. On a K-RT the top is high 70's. Frank Glamser Hattiesburg, Mississippi '92 K75RT BMW RoM Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:10:45 -0800 From: Roozbeh Chubak Subject: Re: BMW: Thurlow gloves At 4:21 PM -0800 12/3/97, TomaraladNoSpam@NoSpamaol.com wrote: >I'm having a problem and wanted to see if any other Prez's are having it or >it is just me. > >I ordered a pair of gloves (my third pair) from Thurlow and upon opening them >determined they didn't fit and made arangements to return them. That was >over two months ago and I have not been able to get them to credit my card. > >I love their gloves but cant stand thier customer service. Anyone else >having trouble or is it just me? That's the way it is. If you want to sport the best riding gloves in the world bar none, you have to put up with their slow service not to mention the Bitch with Attitude who sometimes answers the phone. Over the years I have bought 4 pairs of Thurlows. Two pairs still work, the others got lost or finally wore out. The last time I ordered a pair, I got so sick of waiting after two months that I cancelled my order and went to a dealer that stocks them (BCW) and bought one on the spot. Regards, Roozbeh Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 08:56:00 -0800 (PST) From: spikeNoSpam@NoSpamhevanet.com Subject: re:BMW: Handlebar Gloves Mark asks: "Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 23:59:33 -0800 From: Mark Etheridge <2thermoNoSpam@NoSpamconcentric.net> Subject: BMW: Handlebar Gloves Prezzes: The Motorcycle LEO's here have outer gloves that remain attached to the bars and controls, sort of like leather tubes into which the rider inserts his/her hands to grip the bars/controls. I was thinking of mounting something along those lines on the R for the winter. I already have the BMW handguards installed. Anyone have a source for these things or an idea on how to fab something up?" Langlitz Leathers in Portland makes the Police units in heavy leather, don't know but suspect they are fairly expensive. I doubt they will work with the handguards, but you won't need the guards. A cheaper alternative is the snowmobile bar mitts available through Chapparal or some M/C dealers. I have been using the mitts (cheap ones) for years, this year I'm trying the BMW handguards w/heated grips. Seems to work prety well so far! Spike Cornelius 85 K100(S) Mr. Growly 65 T100SC Portland, Or. Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:07:46 EST From: Randallrun Subject: BMW: Re:leather handle bar muffs I have a pair of extreme high quality leather handle bar muffs lined with sheeps wool that increase the effeciency of heated grips greatly. They are made by Langlitz leathers in Portland Oregon, originator of the leather motorcyle jacket. They work best if the levers are rotated down a little then the wind resistance will not push in on them. They look awsome on a G.S. too. By the way, most of the police riders in the state of Oregon use them in the state of Oregon. I highly recommend them. Rick in Oregon Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:29:35 -0500 From: steinjNoSpam@NoSpamwit.edu (Jeffrey Stein) Subject: BMW: Leather Jackets Jerry, My companion recently received a new jacket that is EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT from Langlitz Leathers, in Portland, Oregon. Call them at (503) 235-0959. This baby is STIFF (yet, supple) leather! You can stand it up in the middle of a room on its bottom seam. It is custom cut. Fits like a glove, looks great, feels good, works great, not cheap. Yikes! (I like it). Plenty of pockets, zippers, collars, belts...Classic! Ahhh. As you may have heard about the Langlitz family, they hand make their jackets same way they've been doing since the early '50's, only do custom orders, don't have any "off the rack", and so it takes several (6 anyway...) months to get one once you order it. Here in New England where I'm writing this, it's too cold to ride no matter what kind of jacket you have, so call Langlitz. They'll send you their catalogue, leather samples, etc. Jeff Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 22:05:25 -0500 From: JERRY MCFADDEN Subject: BMW: Leather Jackets I remember and old entry about a source of old "Classic" styled leather motorcycle jackets. When I was much, much younger I remember the motorcycle jackets were so stiff that I could barely bend the arms. Today lots of the jackets are made of soft lamb skin. Someone called them Chicago Style jackets. Any leads into this oldie but goodie type jacket will be appreciated. Feel free to reply to the list and/or directly. The stiffer the leather the better. Thank You -- How Many days till Christmas??? Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 97 10:15:09 -0800 From: Alice Raia Subject: RE: BMW: Aerostitch Fit? Shayle Abelkop , aka Larry asks: >I just purchased a 2 piece roadcrafter suit & need some help on the >fit. I purchased a 42 short which is the same size I normally wear. >The jacket seems much too small to me. I've got a 1 piece Roadcrafter that, according to Rider Wearhouse's sizing chart, is 2 sizes too big for me. It is also a 42 short. It fits comfortably, with enough room in the top half for me to get my all important (to me, weenie like to Mel-baby) heated jacket under it. The bottom half is also loose enough to fit a pair of LL Bean GoreTex wind pants under the suit. I'm 5'6" and weigh close to what you do. Had I ordered according to the sizing chart, breathing would not have been possible. One caveat -- I just sent the suit back for some leg lengthening. Due to the difference in placement of the male vs female waist in relation to the rest of the anatomy ( ;-) ), I need to have 3 inches added above the knee and one inch taken off below the knee. I rode around for a year an a half with the pants being too short. What a goober... You might want to consider a larger size suit.... =o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o= = Alice Raia = = Petaluma, CA = = '95 R11R - Naked Ambition Russian River BMW Club = =o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:53:21 -0800 From: pliesenbNoSpam@NoSpamcisco.com Subject: BMW: On Suits One recommendation from me: last year, I got tired of leathers and decided to try kevlar. The suit I went for is from Marsee in CA. They don't have much, but what they have is top-notch quality, if a bit pricey. The suit is a 2 piecer - the advanatge is that, in my experience, you get a much better fit with a 2 piecer unless the 1-piece suit is tailor-fit. The pants are in black, the jackets come in different colors, mine being gray&black. Looks way cool in fit, you look like some warrior out of star wars or something. The material stretches in all directions and is supposed to run a *bit* tight, I guess. The fit is excellent and very comfortable (note that you can't wear jeans or so under the pants, they're supposed to run tight), the material very rugged and yet light - and fresh in the summer, yet you can wear something underneath to make it suitably warm in the winter (but I live here in CA, so you hardcore people with harsher climates don't take my word - but it does get chilly down here by the coast!). I've used this outfit in the sizzling summertime and in the wintertime, and, unvoluntarily, in the rain, where it protects you a bit for so long. The kevlar material is supposed to give great protection, but that's something I can't report on and am not eager to find out, really (knock on wood). It seems to have padding in all the right places, and the seams seem excellent quality. It's also got plenty of ventilation zippers and stuff. I tend to wear leggings under the trousers, and whatever fits the temperature under the jacket (in the winter usually a cashmere turtleneck), and find I am perfectly equipped. My leather stuff has been gathering dust ever since I got myself this outfit. ...pablo Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 14:28:22 -0800 From: Deryle and Wanda Mehrten Subject: Re: BMW: Widder Electronic Controller At 07:15 PM 12/15/97 -0800, Pat Widder wrote: >>>>=20 Roozbeh, Brian, Jerry and others, I do try to limit my participation on this list to daily lurking, but maybe I can clear up some confusion on our electronic controller. Although the resulting controlled output is pretty much the same as how a rheostat would deliver it, the way it achieves it is not. As several have pointed out, a rheostat will continue to draw nearly the same current even when turned down to lower the heat being produced in your garment. That is *not* how our electronic controller operates. I'll try to explain this the best I can as I don't even entirely understand what those perky little electrons are doing inside that little black box. We had an engineer design this unit for us and would you believe at one point during our experimenting, we actually had to increase the size because we had made it too small?!!! The unit utilizes a circuitry that will switch the resistance (to the tune of a godzillion :) ohm difference) 150 times a second. What does this mean in practical terms? It means that when you turn down the heat, you also draw less from your electrical system while maintaining a steady temperature in your garments. The unit is also 98% efficient and is not entirely infinite in it's settings. IOW, unlike bi-metal thermostats that have a partial dial range that in all practicality will not be used, we started the working output at a point where the body would actually start feeling the heat being produced. Don't get me wrong - bi-metal thermostats are a very efficient means to control heat output/current draw, but this gives a broader working range within the knob's settings and eliminates accidently having it on when you don't need it or don't realize it might still actually be on. It can become warm to the touch with higher loads (vest, chaps and gloves), but this is typical of most electronic devices. We don't advertise anything as waterproof, but I can tell you we ran a unit submerged in a bucket of water for 24 hours and it didn't miss a beat. Hope this helps. Now if we only had more in stock for all the cycle-Santas calling these days... Ride warm, Pat Widder ________________________________________________________ The Pioneers of Electrically-heated Riding Apparel Widder Enterprises 1 800 WYB-COLD 942 E Ojai Ave FAX 805 640-1296 Ojai CA 93023 Intn'l 805 640-1295 USA http://www.widder.com ________________________________________________________ From: peterbeNoSpam@NoSpamerols.com (Peter Jones) To: Joe Monenschein , Thomas Hundt Cc: BMW Internet Riders Subject: Re: BMW: Roadcrafter VS Darian Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 16:50:04 -0500 Organization: Matrix Communications Reply-To: peterbeNoSpam@NoSpamerols.com X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by brooklyn.slack.net id QAA09069 On Sat, 27 Dec 1997 11:28:36 -0700, Joe wrote: >All right, I know that the collective materialistic accessorisors of >this group have beat these kinds of questions to death but -- > >Which do I buy? > >Even though the majority of this group say go with the Darian, and even >thought the Darian looks really happenin, I'm leaning towards the two >piece Roadcrafter simply because I know I'll be more inclined to have >protective pants on all the time if they're zipped to my jacket. > >Is this a good enough reason? >Or, should I just wear my leather until it falls apart at the seams? Hi Joe. I just went through this exercise. Got a lot of great advice from the group, but I still had to send one back and try another. Not enough skinny guys on the group. :-) Here's what I picked up: I started with the Darien because it sounded like it handles a better range of temp swings. Since I'm in an area that's cold in the winter and hot and humid in the summer, that sounded great. However, I wound up trading it in for the Roadcrafter two piece. This because I'm very slim and the Darien is cut "full". With the medium jacket, sleeve length was perfect, but the chest was huge on me. I have this problem a lot, and find it really annoying. At 5'9" and 140 pounds I have to buy a 40 to get good length, but find 36 to 38 much more comfortable around the torso. I probably could have gotten a small jacket modified, but Sally at Aero suggested I try the RC. The roadcrafter is cut more snug, and fits me really well. I don't look like the michelin man in it. It would fit a more average person more like leathers - snug. Points I've noted: - Darien cut more full, probably allows better ventilation in summer and provides more room for layers in winter. I'm a little concerned that the roadcrafter might be too tight, providing less summer ventilation. Realistically though, I wouldn't want it any more loose than it is (and like the Darien was). Currently I find the top quite snug with a heavy sweatshirt and quilted liner (but how much more would you want). I figure I'll get a Gerbings electric eventually. Currently I'm comfortable down to around 40 degrees behind the RT fairing, but remember that I've got no natural insulation. :-) - RC pants are also more snug. I find my legs are actually colder in the pants than without, as the thighs are snug and pull the cold through. Darien pants were quite loose - same comments as jacket apply. I actually found the bagginess annoying. I sounded like I was wearing a nylon workout suit when walking. - RC pants don't unzip from both ends like the Darien. This would be great for venting in the hot summer. RC pants would have to be unzipped from bottom up, compromising protection. - RC pants length great, fit perfect. Darien inseam a little long and a little restrictive in the crotch (but comfortable when seated). Probably fixable with customizing ($$$). - Darien pants also pressed in on my belly - a bit uncomfortable. Still haven't figured out why - I've got no belly. ;-) - Two piece RC zips together and should be warmer than jacket and pants which can draft. - RC definitely MUCH faster to don and doff, which is great for me as a commuter. Bought the bib so's I can wear the gig to rallies and stuff. - Darien armor didn't seem to have a hard shell, while RC does. Catalog seems to indicate they're the same. Prolly my error. - Darien slightly less obvious when worn in public, although depending on colors chosen, not a lot. - Darien has slightly more pocket space. So the major points for me: - Darien cut more full, so theoretically better over wider weather range for average/full body shape (not mine). - RC much faster to don/doff. Cut better for slim folk. Definitely recommend trying on someone else's stuff before paying shipping costs over and over, if you can. Be sure to read Dali Meow's and Thomas Hundt's pages: http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/jacket.html http://www.slack.net/~thundt/Bmw/clothing.txt Hope that helps. Enjoyed PF's "Animals" while writing this. Hope it doesn't show through. :-) -- Peter Jones - DGPS Guy Woodbridge, Virginia N38-39.900/W077-23.400 97 R11RT "Becky Blue" 73 DE N7MXK Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:26:03 -0500 From: "Larry Wilbers" Subject: BMW: Dainese Catalogue For those of you asking where to get the Dainese catalogue, I've only seen one at a local dealership and it was the store copy. Kiernan has one of the best online catalogues I've seen, but I cannot not vouch for how well they handle orders, exchanges, etc.. They sell Dainese as well as Joe Rocket and others. Their selection in Dainese non leather riding suits may not be as good as the hard copy catalogue. Non leather jackets and pants are listed separately but can be matched. All use Gortex. Prices are competitive with Aerostitch and others. Also not listed in the above is the water resistance and breathablility of the suits as in the hard copy catalogue. See: http://www.braincell.com/kiernan/ I'll continue to search for a source for getting the hard copy version. Larry in Columbus Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:17:41 -0500 From: Erik Miner Subject: Re: BMW: Dainese Catalogue >For those of you asking where to get the Dainese catalogue, I've only seen >one at a local dealership and it was the store copy. > >Kiernan has one of the best online catalogues I've seen, but I cannot not >vouch for how well they handle orders, exchanges, etc.. They sell Dainese as >well as Joe Rocket and others. Their selection in Dainese non leather riding >suits may not be as good as the hard copy catalogue. Non leather jackets and >pants are listed separately but can be matched. All use Gortex. Prices are >competitive with Aerostitch and others. > >Also not listed in the above is the water resistance and breathablility of >the suits as in the hard copy catalogue. > >See: http://www.braincell.com/kiernan/ > >I'll continue to search for a source for getting the hard copy version. > >Larry in Columbus Hi Larry (and Prezzes) : The US importer of Dainese is MotoRace http://www.motorace.com/ I was recently hired to be the new NY tri-state rep. Please feel free to email me any questions you many have. The MotoRace site has most of the currently available Dainese products ( Although there are a few new products not on the site). Also if anyone needs a catalog they can call MotoRace directly at 800-628-4040 to get one. BTW the big catalog ( 200+ PAGES) Is a European catalog which has many products not available in this country (helmets etc) Erik Erik Miner 98 K1200RS "The Big Red Beast" BMWMOA #77368, IBMWR, NJ BMW Shore Riders "If on my theme I rightly think, There are five reasons why men drink. Good wine, a friend, because I 'm dry, or lest I should be by and by, or any other reason why." Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:17:56 -0800 From: Scott Lee Subject: BMW: Stitch: Back Protector Well, its' unanimous: the back protector is a Good Thing that people actually continue to wear after "installing" it in their Roadcrafter or Darien suit. Nobody complained, or took it out, or wanted to sell it, or any of that; ALL respondants were positive about fit and feel. Guess I'll have to spend the 60 bux.. Scott Lee Somewhere in L.A. NOT #e, GOB # 48 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:23:13 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Thomas Subject: BMW: its winter and its dark in the nwet on my way into work at oh-dark-o-clock with a steady drizzle and the pavement eating my headlights, a k1000lt merged onto the interstate from the right. nicely done, no squirrel behavior. person was in leathers and a black helmet. no reflective anything, no helmet halo, 3m tape, retro vest, nothing. who ever you were you were VERY hard to see for even a mc conscious driver. boys and girls, its dark and dreary in the am, how about forgetting about fashion and getting something reflective on your persona, maybe we'll get to meet in missoula. no flames intended, just a friendly reminder that out tail light is very small and underpowered and winter is indeed upon us. gt Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:05:26 -0800 From: "Barry P. Blank, Ph.D." Subject: Re: BMW: Roadcrafter VS Darian Charles, you wrote: > >But Joe, don't you think the Roadcrafter looks just >a little bit like a straight-jacket with the arms >untied? : - ) Well, Charles...so what's wrong with that? - ;^) - -- Regards, Barry ('95 K75S) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:08:42 -0500 From: "Ted Hall" Subject: BMW: Re: More Rain! Hi Mark This is what I use Go to any Farm Supply or Hardware Store. I buy -Heavy duty, fabric lined, chemical resistant, work gloves. Almost all of this type of work glove are coated with PVC/Nitrile and the grip is Textured. In 40 degree temp's, no soft cotton liner glove is needed. Between 35 and 40 degrees a cotton liner is nice, butt not necessary for short runs. All for the big bucks of $6 to $8. I have had these gloves for years and they are still waterproof. I have tried alot(5) "waterproof" gloves, some work well, others are crap. They all cost too much for what they do. They only draw back to these gloves is if you decide riding/sliding down the road on your hands, they don't offer very much protection. If I lose one or pop a hole, they are cheap to replace. Side note: I had a pair of rain gloves stolen in a restaurant many years ago, expensive gloves:-(, and know one in his right mind would steal these if I left them lying around. They are as ugly as a green frogs butt, butt, I still have them.( waitress came running out in the rain once and gave them to me). See, I told you they were ugly: Butt, they work!!!! Cheers t Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:09:38 EST From: SUZY Q IB Subject: BMW: Re: LDRider: Electric Pants/Chaps In a message dated 98-01-05 11:34:55 EST, cadtoolsNoSpam@NoSpamearthlink.net writes: << Gerber electric pants and Widder electric chaps. >> Dear Scott: I have experience with both of these items. I do not like the chaps as the velcro elastic straps stretch and the chaps slip out of place for me. Plus I had a problem with them when I needed to tinkle. I purchased the electric pants. Although I liked them better, they also had some faults. There was no elastic or a bottom strap to hold them down. They fit loosely at the bottom and slid up out of my boots, and I melted the nylon on my exhaust pipe (on my Harley that was stolen). I also think the pants keep you warmer as the chaps don't cover the side of my hips and back of you (buttocks) and my fanny was as cold as ice with the chaps. I never use my chaps. I should put them up for sale. SuzyQ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:44:04 -0500 From: Rich & Frauke Rosental Subject: RE: BMW: GEAR: Cordura Riding Gear Steve wrote: I use Aerostitch one piece, love it. My bride just bought Motoport = Gear.=20 2 piece (I guess 2 pc. is all they make) for obvious female reasons... She hasn't yet worn it in anger yet,(aboard the bike) but seems (and = this is untypical) as tho she is gonna be pleased w/ it. Price for her = gear was just fine. Libby, here in New Haven area, knocked 10% off the = list price. Think she wrote a check out for about $345 'er so. It = looks like nice stuff. But not as nice or as well made as the gear from = Duluth. Certainly three hundred and fifty bux worth. Now lets see if she leaves it on all the way to Montana this July... Hope this helps. Stephen Syrotiak =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve: Thanks. Another Prezz commented that they had ordered and liked the = Motoport gear. Actually that company makes a wide selection of stuff = and, at least according to the Prezz that wrote me, has more stuff for = us "large and portly" sized guys. They have both single and two piece = suites in several configurations. Prices do seem reasonable, thus I was = a bit suspicious of quality. You mentioned a source in Connecticut. Please let me know who you went = to so I can contact them. BTW the Motoport people have a very nice = catalog full of interesting apparel for motorcyclists. Their prices = seem, at least to me, reasonable. The company's numbers are: 800-777-6499, 619-929-4880, FAX 619-929-4888. BTW, on page eight of the catalog is something called their Body Guard = jacket. It's a black nylon mesh jacket with ballistic protection in the = arms, shoulders and a couple of other places. Looks like just the = ticket for really, really hot days. Just got to beat a 'tee' shirt! = I've ordered one and will let the list know what I find when I get it. Ride safe, Rich Rosenthal RosieNoSpam@NoSpamcapecod.net Wellfleet, MA=20 '96 R1100R die fledermaus BMWMOA, BMWRA, IBMWR, Yankee Beemer Your continuously shopping 4/10ths kind of a rider ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:41:23 EST From: MilesMil Subject: BMW: Motorport Ultra II 5:18 p.m. Friday Rich asks: << Does anyone = have any experience with the Motoport company and their products? >> I'll respond to this since it's my guess most people don't have this gear. I feel very safe in this two piece suit. Probably because it is very heavy. It's also very well made. In the almost two years and 16,000 miles in use, not one seam or snap or anything has failed. Heavy, I thinks, because it's made of 1000 denier cordura fabric. Most other suits are about half that weight. It only becomes waterproof when you put the gortex liner in under the suit. Otherwise air and water come thru the outer garments. This is good in the summer, as air circulates thru at a rapid clip. A problem if you get caught and have to install the liner. Usually I try a judgement call on whether to fit the gortex liner. If I had to do all over again, I would get black pants and a Red coat rather than all red. You can just throw the jacket and then the pants in the clothes washer. Both won't fit at the same time. It's best to take the back protector out when you wash the jacket. Makes it fit better in the machine. The company seems o.k. to deal with. Price is comparable with the other firms. Motorport has a large display at the traveling motorcycle show. My wife feels the Ultra II is too heavy for women to wear comfortably. She liked one of the BMW suits at the Seattle show. You might also check your dealer for prices on their suits. They seem to use the same approach with gortex liners under non-gortex cordura outer garments. Oh, the suit also employs lots of velcro. My favorite is at the cuffs which velcro around your boots. No open cuff to catch on sidestands, shifters, pegs, etc. Old catalog shows the following 800 number: (800) 777-6499. Hope this is fairly complete, since I'm off to Whistler, B.C. for a week and will not be able to respond to inquiries on this post for awhile. One last item: my riding suit seems to get dirtier, faster on the K-12 than it did on the 11RT. Miles Miller K-12 Greybeard Bainbridge Is., Wa. Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:51:37 -0800 From: Scott Lee Subject: BMW: re: Riding Pants, etc. First, I'll quote the question:-------- -----------original question------------- From: Metz 67 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:03:24 EST Subject: LDRider: clothing question Ok gang---- I got a clothing question. What type of pants do ya'll wear for rain and cold weather? Do you carry one pair of rain gear for both conditions or 2 separate pieces? Do you have goretex pants with or without fleece lining? I need to buy some good pants for both rain and cold weather but I dont want it to be too bulky when I'm not using it. I know some of yall use the Aerostitch suit--(except for Jerry because he carries it in the left saddlebag at all times) :)) but what else can be used for foul and cold riding. Now keep in mind it has to be pack with all the other Iron Butt stuff. I can already imagine what Jack and John (or is it Jill) is going to say to this thread. :)) :)) Thanks for ya'lls help!!!!!!!!!! Eddie - -----------------endo original question ------------------- Well, a while back I asked a related question (which electric pants are preferred) and got quite a few responses. I guess I'll summarize the responses using my highly developed info summarizing algorithm.. Outer Layer: Heavy duty Cordura Nylon. Aerostitch (Darien or Roadcrafter) or Motoport pants. The Aerostitch stuff is rainproof, I can't say about the Motorport..This layer protects from the elements, and forms a first line of defense against road rash when that Volvo wagon does its stupid car trick.. I wear a Darien myself, YMMV Inner layer (against skin) : Thermal underwear. I have some I got in the early 80's which has a cotton inner layer and a wool outer layer. Works great, but I would probably replace them with polypropalene (sp??) now as the persperation wicking feature is probably a Good Thing. What goes between the inner (thermal underwear) and outer (heavy cordura nylon) layer depends on where you are going and how you want/need to be dressed when you get there. For business/professional situations requiring slacks, I would suggest Gerbing electric pants over the slacks, as electric pants/chaps should not have a tight, restrictive layer over them. If you will be semi/casual with jeans, you might get away with Widder electric chaps or Gerbing pants over jeans. For riding only, with no "social" attire requirements, what seems to be an optimum would be thermal underwear, electric pants or chaps, fleece pants, heavy (rainproof/breathing) cordura. As the electrics work better the closer they are to the skin, but require an insulating/heat spreader layer between them and your skin, having the electrics directly over the thermal underwear is the way to go. Since this precludes slacks or jeans, due to the fact that electrics should not (they still works, butt not as well, and the possibility of pinching a wire is increased) have restrictive clothing directly over them, the next layer sould be loose fitting fleece pants. The fleece pants have excellent insulating properties, and you can wear them off the bike with the outer layer removed without looking like yer in your underwear.. To summarize, then, there are essentially two possibilities: 1. Thermals -->Slacks/Jeans --> Electrics --> (Heavy Duty Rainproofed) Cordura 2. Thermals -->Electrics --> Fleece --> (Heavy Duty Rainproofed) Cordura 3. Thermals --> Pants --> Gerbing heated outerwear pants. I don't know if they are waterproof or whatever, ymmv This is for riding conditions down to freezing, with possible rain, at sustained high speeds. Layering comes in at higher temperatures/shorter trips. As my original question to the lists (LDriders and IBMWR) was about electrics, lemme give a non-commital summary answer to that question. The choices in electric pants seems to boil down to two possibilities: 1. Widder electric chaps, http://www.widder.com/chaps.htm , cost $ 92.00 and come in standard sizes. On the down side, there have been some complaints about the straps that hold them in place being a PITA during rest stops, and generally taking more time/effort to deal with putting on/taking off. They are, however, 1/2 the price of the.. 2. Gerbing heated pants. Look under heated innerware at http://www.gerbing.com (due to frames programming, I don't have the exact url for the electric inner pants. Go from the main page to heated clothing to heated innerware/pants).. The gerbings have the advantage of being easy/quick to put on and take off, and as they give complete coverage (not complete electric coverage, the wiring is NOT in the butt area) they are socially acceptable in restaraunts, etc..when you take off the other outer layers. On the down side, they cost twice what the Widders do ($175.00) and are a custom fit (is that a plus or minus??), so they are not "off the shelf", and returns are probably out of the question. Well, since the weather man is saying highs in the mid-70's today, I think I'll go for a ride, without any of the above clothing (except levis - Darien pants are a real soon now due to custom mods) Scott Lee Somewhere in L.A. Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:07:02 -0800 From: Scott Lee Subject: BMW: Hot Pants part deux Oh yeah, I left out the short trip option which left out thermal underwear. With pants --> electrics --> cordura as a layering scheme, short distances (50 miles or less) can probably done safely, with quick/easy unlayering at your destination. The reason for all the layers (thermal underwear,..) in the previous post was that you do NOT want to be stuck in the freezing middle of nowhere at zero-dark-thirty with busted electrics and not enough layers to fight off hypothermia. Your mileage will NOT very, hypothermia is very real.. Scott Lee Somewhere in L.A.